On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, but you can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
Swarm hosts cost an enormous amount of gas, deviate from the standard upgrade pattern by Locusts using missile attacks, require anti-air support to stop terrans from abusing their immobility with drops, and must hit critical mass before they stop being a burden and start being a benefit.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
the main issue is that 3-3 comes smoothly for T because you can afford 3-3-2 + 1 port and 3mines/cycle on 6gaz easily while balancing the gaz is so much harder for the Z when you want mutas + bling and it cost a shit lot to get 3-3 rolling (infest pit + hive + 3/3) and then you want ultras anyway when you get your hive tech. I don't think micro will swing the mine efficiency too much one way or another and with better control it should favor the T anyway.
But remember that this was not an issue in WoL at all and zerg is overall better now. Zerg used to go straight into infestation pit but currently that is not possible with widow mine efficiency. Swarm hosts sucking in ZvT is pretty important since it is one of the few options to create a cost-efficient army not reliant on surrounds.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
On August 12 2013 12:04 UnKooL wrote: How does Polt keep doing it? Does he still play on KR servers from Texas with low enough ping? He has no teammates either to have efficient/optimal preparation/practice for tournaments...Is he a genius? Nada? I mean he still goes to school fulltime as well...
He just seems like a really really smart player, with the mechanics to back it up. Doesn't really fold under pressure. It being summer definitely helps him put in more time and be better prepared and in form, since he doesn't have to worry about class all the time. The sickcity he had with the bunkers and mines in Game 4, then walling off the third base... read JD perfectly. So good.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
Fuck off lol, Polt is one of the all-time greatest ballers
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more.
Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades.
Or Charge compounds Zealots.
Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given.
Charge and Metabolic Boost helps Zerglings and Zealots get in to just inflict their DPS. Charge and Meta Boost does not actually have an effect on DPS like Adrenal Glands and Stim. It also improves their Mobility, which Stim also does, albeit with the cost of Health.
Medivacs not only help mitigate that HP loss, but their healing also combos well with the Defensive upgrades.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
Sorry but America is the best at sc2, Jaedong and Kespa never had a chance.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
That's a really fucking low blow dude at Polt's education. Not cool.
On August 12 2013 12:04 UnKooL wrote: How does Polt keep doing it? Does he still play on KR servers from Texas with low enough ping? He has no teammates either to have efficient/optimal preparation/practice for tournaments...Is he a genius? Nada? I mean he still goes to school fulltime as well...
Well he mentioned in his interview that he trained on NA ladder with few training partners. So I guess he is a genius after all.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
please tell me you're joking. Why so harsh? I think his english is great and it keeps getting better and better. I'm sure his vocabulary is bigger than most people realize but he just doesn't have the verbal aspect done tight but that comes with practice. Polt is the most awesome SCII player imo!
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
wow. I mean I would expect this from an american... but from an european? damn that was cold
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
you must not have seen how well marines scale in BW. I can only presume that they want to stick to their BW counterparts which is that .
the design of a low dmg fast attack unit /w range and a steroid has 0 options other than scaling uber hard with upgrades.
At least in BW we had T2 Splash Ranged Damage to counter it. and medics where a pain in the ass to handle.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
you must not have seen how well marines scale in BW. I can only presume that they want to stick to their BW counterparts which is that .
the design of a low dmg fast attack unit /w range and a steroid has 0 options other than scaling uber hard with upgrades.
At least in BW we had T2 Splash Ranged Damage to counter it. and medics where a pain in the ass to handle.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
wow. I mean I would expect this from an american... but from an european? damn that was cold
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more.
Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades.
Or Charge compounds Zealots.
Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given.
Charge and Metabolic Boost helps Zerglings and Zealots get in to just inflict their DPS. Charge and Meta Boost does not actually have an effect on DPS like Adrenal Glands and Stim. It also improves their Mobility, which Stim also does, albeit with the cost of Health.
Medivacs not only help mitigate that HP loss, but their healing also combos well with the Defensive upgrades.
Stim actually accomplishes the same thing for Marines that charge and metabolic boost does for Zealots and Zerglings when you stop to think about it.
How hard would it be to keep Marines alive without the added mobility that stim provides? How hard would it be to chase down Mutas?
Stim does add the extra DPS but its also the only of the upgrades for tier 1 units that has a drawback in the form of health cost that requires Medivacs to heal.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
wow. I mean I would expect this from an american... but from an european? damn that was cold
that backhand... my american pride
bro you know the level of shock if it would have come from an american would be much less than an european
EPT
