On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
wow. I mean I would expect this from an american... but from an european? damn that was cold
that backhand... my american pride
bro you know the level of shock if it would have come from an american would be much less than an european
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
please tell me you're joking. Why so harsh? I think his english is great and it keeps getting better and better. I'm sure his vocabulary is bigger than most people realize but he just doesn't have the verbal aspect done tight but that comes with practice. Polt is the most awesome SCII player imo!
Dude he majors in ENGLISH at UNIVERSITY level.At UNIVERSITY levels you are supposed to write 20 page long essays using advanced english and read entire books from one week to another.Polt literally is not proficient in oral English.i have never seen his essays or anything else from him but he can not express himself in English.he says one phrase mostly a subject and a predicate and that is it.I could speak better English than him in the 7th grade,How did this dude pass the Toefl Oral requirement.You can not get into uni in the USA without Toefl.He is bad at English considering he majors in it.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more.
Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades.
Or Charge compounds Zealots.
Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given.
Charge and Metabolic Boost helps Zerglings and Zealots get in to just inflict their DPS. Charge and Meta Boost does not actually have an effect on DPS like Adrenal Glands and Stim. It also improves their Mobility, which Stim also does, albeit with the cost of Health.
Medivacs not only help mitigate that HP loss, but their healing also combos well with the Defensive upgrades.
Stim actually accomplishes the same thing for Marines that charge and metabolic boost does for Zealots and Zerglings when you stop to think about it.
How hard would it be to keep Marines alive without the added mobility that stim provides? How hard would it be to chase down Mutas?
Stim does add the extra DPS but its also the only of the upgrades for tier 1 units that has a drawback in the form of health cost that requires Medivacs to heal.
so get rid of damage from stim but make marines fight with knives instead of rifles? j/k. I just think with the range and medi support marines are the best tier 1, and Z isn't able to get out anything to deal with mines on the field.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
Swarm Hosts have about as much synergy with the current meta as Thors and Siege Tanks do.
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
Swarm Hosts have about as much synergy with the current meta as Thors and Siege Tanks do.
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
at least it's fun to play and watch. I'd really like if different openings were viable from a T pov but i doubt it considering how insanely good 3cc builds are.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
Swarm Hosts have about as much synergy with the current meta as Thors and Siege Tanks do.
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
Siege tanks are actually still really good against zerg. People just don't make them because with widow mines, you don't have to worry so much about replenishing them when caught off-guard.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more.
Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades.
Or Charge compounds Zealots.
Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given.
Charge and Metabolic Boost helps Zerglings and Zealots get in to just inflict their DPS. Charge and Meta Boost does not actually have an effect on DPS like Adrenal Glands and Stim. It also improves their Mobility, which Stim also does, albeit with the cost of Health.
Medivacs not only help mitigate that HP loss, but their healing also combos well with the Defensive upgrades.
Stim actually accomplishes the same thing for Marines that charge and metabolic boost does for Zealots and Zerglings when you stop to think about it.
How hard would it be to keep Marines alive without the added mobility that stim provides? How hard would it be to chase down Mutas?
Stim does add the extra DPS but its also the only of the upgrades for tier 1 units that has a drawback in the form of health cost that requires Medivacs to heal.
so get rid of damage from stim but make marines fight with knives instead of rifles? j/k. I just think with the range and medi support marines are the best tier 1, and Z isn't able to get out anything to deal with mines on the field.
The thing about starcraft is that there's 3 races. So even if for some hypothetical reason we wanted to tone down Marines vs Zerg, there'd be no way to do that without dooming the race vs Protoss because Marines are just as important there as they are vs Zerg.
The problem if there is one with the current match ups is two fold.
1. Bio is strong.
2. Everything Terran has that is NOT Bio is weak.
You can't address one without addressing the other.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
please tell me you're joking. Why so harsh? I think his english is great and it keeps getting better and better. I'm sure his vocabulary is bigger than most people realize but he just doesn't have the verbal aspect done tight but that comes with practice. Polt is the most awesome SCII player imo!
Dude he majors in ENGLISH at UNIVERSITY level.At UNIVERSITY levels you are supposed to write 20 page long essays using advanced english and read entire books from one week to another.Polt literally is not proficient in oral English.i have never seen his essays or anything else from him but he can not express himself in English.he says one phrase mostly a subject and a predicate and that is it.I could speak better English than him in the 7th grade,How did this dude pass the Toefl Oral requirement.You can not get into uni in the USA without Toefl.He is bad at English considering he majors in it.
I believe polt majors in bioengineering of some kind? Not English. Unless he swapped majors to come to the US. I thought he only came to improve his English not to study it.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options.
Yeah, and Mech and tanks are bad vs most zerg options, so terran only uses bio/mine...hence a lack of diversity
There's nothing wrong with terran or bio. Jaedong just played horrendous that series and that's all there is to it. Balance had 0 to do with the jaedong throws that series.
On August 12 2013 12:08 theking1 wrote: another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS.
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well.
Yes.
What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes.
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs.
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
Swarm Hosts have about as much synergy with the current meta as Thors and Siege Tanks do.
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio.
Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle.
Just wanted to say that this is the first thread i've read a group of your posts and you talk a lot of sense, quality poster.
EPT
