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Stop the balance whining please. |
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:
[quote]
imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine. Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling. In theory you're right. In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines. Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem. TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem. the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump
hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage.
On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL
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On August 12 2013 12:24 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:15 bigbadgreen wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:10 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:02 dabom88 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[quote]
All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more. Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades. Or Charge compounds Zealots. Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given. Charge and Metabolic Boost helps Zerglings and Zealots get in to just inflict their DPS. Charge and Meta Boost does not actually have an effect on DPS like Adrenal Glands and Stim. It also improves their Mobility, which Stim also does, albeit with the cost of Health. Medivacs not only help mitigate that HP loss, but their healing also combos well with the Defensive upgrades. Stim actually accomplishes the same thing for Marines that charge and metabolic boost does for Zealots and Zerglings when you stop to think about it. How hard would it be to keep Marines alive without the added mobility that stim provides? How hard would it be to chase down Mutas? Stim does add the extra DPS but its also the only of the upgrades for tier 1 units that has a drawback in the form of health cost that requires Medivacs to heal. so get rid of damage from stim but make marines fight with knives instead of rifles? j/k. I just think with the range and medi support marines are the best tier 1, and Z isn't able to get out anything to deal with mines on the field. The thing about starcraft is that there's 3 races. So even if for some hypothetical reason we wanted to tone down Marines vs Zerg, there'd be no way to do that without dooming the race vs Protoss because Marines are just as important there as they are vs Zerg. The problem if there is one with the current match ups is two fold. 1. Bio is strong. 2. Everything Terran has that is NOT Bio is weak. You can't address one without addressing the other. #1 is correct but i think #2 is wrong .. i think other options are as just good just unexplored because no other option probably is better than bio .. i mean why would anyone bother to use anything that is not bio .. if bio itself is proven to be very powerful and safe
I could honestly sit here all day and talk about why #2 is true but I'll just sum up with a couple basic points.
1. Every weakness Mech had in WoL when it was still being used vs Zerg is still present. Extreme cost of production, horrid mobility, very weak overall vs Hive Tech etc. is still true. But HoTS added in both the Swarm Host and Viper which serve as additional anti-Mech tools for Zerg. The "buffs" Mech received in HoTS aren't really true buffs to the playstyle outside of Seeker Missile's change. Helbats and Widow Mines both have better synergy with Bio than they have with mech mostly because both unit roles overlap somewhat with the Siege Tank.
So every reason Terrans ever had for not using Mech vs Zerg in WoL is still there, none of them have been improved upon and yet now there's 2 new reasons in the Swarm Host and Viper to not use the playstyle.
2. There isn't anything else Terran isn't already using that has any kind of synergy with Bio. Thors, Helbats, Banshees, Siege Tanks and Ghosts have almost no place in the TvZ match up. A lot of that has a lot to do with Bio's exclusive upgrades, but a lot of it also has to do with Bio's greatest strength being its mobility. Units that lack that same mobility serve only to slow that overall unit composition down.
It goes deeper than that, but there's a basic sum up to all of it.
If you're a Professional player, you should be playing bio. It's the best unit composition with the fewest weaknesses that rewards increasing levels of skill the most. Mech; even if you CAN play it well has more weaknesses and doesn't benefit from the same kind of increasing levels of skill the way that Bio units that are well controlled do.
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Great series.
well done Jim and Polt~~
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On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:
[quote]
The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine. Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling. In theory you're right. In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines. Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem. TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem. the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL
So better tactical awareness?
Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes.
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On August 12 2013 12:22 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote:
why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine. Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling. In theory you're right. In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines. Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem. TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem. the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing Swarm Hosts have about as much synergy with the current meta as Thors and Siege Tanks do. The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. Siege Tanks still have their place. Standard, eco-heavy Bio/Mine opening is usually 3cc, so some Zergs try to counter that with a Roach/Baneling bust. If a Terran scouts it, then Siege Tanks are better than Widow Mines against Roaches. Thors IN GENERAL seem to lack a place in the meta outside of TvT air battles.
If we want to call being a situational midgame defensive tool a "place" at all.
That's akin to saying someone has their own room when it's really just a broom closet.
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On August 12 2013 12:26 -niL wrote:
Is Jaedong the new kong? (at least for sc2)
Who else is there beside him with so many major tournament silver finishes.JD is the kong of foreign sc2.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:
[quote]
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling. In theory you're right. In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines. Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem. TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem. the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes.
I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players!
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:40 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes. I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players!
One of the best players I've seen use flanks is Scarlett. She even does it in ZvZ.
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On August 12 2013 12:41 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:40 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:
[quote]
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes. I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players! One of the best players I've seen use flanks is Scarlett. She even does it in ZvZ.
Ah, how I miss those great Stephano flanks!!
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:41 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:40 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:
[quote]
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes. I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players! One of the best players I've seen use flanks is Scarlett. She even does it in ZvZ.
Honestly, I'm surprised flanks aren't used much by Zerg players(aside from a couple). They are so useful and feel like a must especially when engaging a biomine army.
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On August 12 2013 12:40 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:07 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels .. and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes. I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players!
WM line is designed to conter aggression from any direction, especially flank
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:45 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:40 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:35 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:31 BigFan wrote:On August 12 2013 12:29 plogamer wrote:On August 12 2013 12:28 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:23 IPA wrote:On August 12 2013 12:20 Tachion wrote:On August 12 2013 12:16 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 12:13 goody153 wrote:
[quote]
the swarmhost has almost no synergy in zvt .. locusts are too slow .. i may be wrong but i have not seen anyone successfully incorporating swarmhosts vs bio-mine terran in the highest levels ..
and yes zergs havent figured out the hive timing
The match up as a whole lacks diversity, it's on both sides of the aisle. Terrans field strictly bio/mine not just because it's a strong unit comp but also because the race lacks any kind of alternative composition that works at all in complement with Bio. Zerg as a response is fielding units that are only produced with the expressed purpose of dealing with Bio/Mine. It's a vicious cycle. I don't think zerg lacks diversity in the matchup. Not intentionally. I've seen swarmhosts, infestors, muta/ling, roach/hydra, quick hives and roach busts and baneling busts and whatnot, it's just that so few things are good vs bio/mine that it severely limits zergs options. Does not compute. Basically I've seen a ton of different unit comps in ZvT over past 1-2 months, but the problem is that so little of it is actually viable. Zergs have tried/are trying to diversify to figure out how to respond to bio/mine, but basically none of it is working(so far) so all of these various styles are getting shot down 1 by 1 which = less variety. Maybe zergs can split their units and not eat widowmines in a clump hard to do so if the widow mines are at a choke and you're forced to engage. On a side note, imagine if terrans had forcefields and widow mines LOL So better tactical awareness? Being forced to engage in a choke from one side -should- be bad for zerg. It is bad in TvT too. They are the more mobile race with crazy map vision - setting up flanks should be the way to retake chokes. I agree, more flanks needed from zerg players! WM line is designed to conter aggression from any direction, especially flank
That's a good point. Against tanks flanks are essential because they have to turn and fire. Mines can shoot in any direction without penalty. Another reason why mines are better (I really wish they weren't). >.<
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jaedong the new YellOw 
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POLTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm pretty sure Polt is not studying Animal Biotech in the US. Maybe he is in an English as second language program or something.
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United States23455 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:48 slowbacontron wrote:
I'm pretty sure Polt is not studying Animal Biotech in the US. Maybe he is in an English as second language program or something.
He's taking ESL classes.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:55 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:48 slowbacontron wrote:
I'm pretty sure Polt is not studying Animal Biotech in the US. Maybe he is in an English as second language program or something. He's taking ESL classes.
What brand of toilet paper does he use?
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On August 12 2013 12:55 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:48 slowbacontron wrote:
I'm pretty sure Polt is not studying Animal Biotech in the US. Maybe he is in an English as second language program or something. He's taking ESL classes.
What is ESL? Aussie here no clue what that means?
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On August 12 2013 13:00 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:55 Fionn wrote:On August 12 2013 12:48 slowbacontron wrote:
I'm pretty sure Polt is not studying Animal Biotech in the US. Maybe he is in an English as second language program or something. He's taking ESL classes. What brand of toilet paper does he use?
Charmin Ultra. Because with Polt's marine/mine, less is more.
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Crushing 4-0 from Polt or close and tight games individually?
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EPT
