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Stop the balance whining please. |
On August 12 2013 12:02 dabom88 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. They also have Stim, which compounds the upgrades even more. Similar to how Adrenal Glands compound to help Zergling upgrades.
Or Charge compounds Zealots.
Metabolic Boost also greatly adds to the power of Lings late game although that's pretty much a given.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:02 Laryleprakon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:01 lichter wrote:On August 12 2013 11:58 Fionn wrote: It'll probably be Polt, Maru, and Duckdeok as group leaders, and then the highest points earner as the other top seed, and that being Innovation.
If that's how it goes, whatever group gets Rain or Taeja will be the groups of death. A group of Innovation MMA Taeja Bomber. TvT heaven. I feel MMA would not do so well in that group
I'd actually expect Taeja and Bomber to get out of that group
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On August 12 2013 12:04 UnKooL wrote: How does Polt keep doing it? Does he still play on KR servers from Texas with low enough ping? He has no teammates either to have efficient/optimal preparation/practice for tournaments...Is he a genius? Nada? I mean he still goes to school fulltime as well...
He plays on KR and practices with his ex-TSL teammates
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On August 12 2013 11:58 Fionn wrote: It'll probably be Polt, Maru, and Duckdeok as group leaders, and then the highest points earner as the other top seed, and that being Innovation.
If that's how it goes, whatever group gets Rain or Taeja will be the groups of death. Duckdeok's hardly group of death material
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On August 12 2013 12:00 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 11:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:55 felisconcolori wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 Fionn wrote:On August 12 2013 11:53 GWdeathscythe wrote: Worst champ ceremony ever. They just shout out Polt is the winneeeer... now go home guys, nothing to see here. lol WCS America S1 was far, far, far, farrrrrrrrrrrr worse. Well, they do have to fight LA traffic, so they kindof have to keep it short if anyone expects to be home by 3am. No kidding. Traffic going east from Santa Monica on a weekend is a fucking nightmare the likes of which you never want to experience if you don't already live in Los Angeles. The 10 or 405 are pretty much your only routes home and those are ALWAYS packed with weekend beach traffic coming home. After 7 isn't the worst thing in the world. It's after 5 that's hellscape traffic. edit: Wow Marine balance whine. We have gone full circle!
5rax reaper really needs to be nerfed.
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On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, but you can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
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On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine.
the main issue is that 3-3 comes smoothly for T because you can afford 3-3-2 + 1 port and 3mines/cycle on 6gaz easily while balancing the gaz is so much harder for the Z when you want mutas + bling and it cost a shit lot to get 3-3 rolling (infest pit + hive + 3/3) and then you want ultras anyway when you get your hive tech. I don't think micro will swing the mine efficiency too much one way or another and with better control it should favor the T anyway.
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Awful performance by Jaedong. With how many silvers he's racking up lately, they should start calling him Jae-Kong
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On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine. Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
you die to MMM w/o mines, sh can't deal with drops.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 12 2013 12:02 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 11:58 Fionn wrote: It'll probably be Polt, Maru, and Duckdeok as group leaders, and then the highest points earner as the other top seed, and that being Innovation.
If that's how it goes, whatever group gets Rain or Taeja will be the groups of death. Technically, a group could get both yeah? Dun dun dunnn. Is there any method to the group distribution? Like does each group have to have at least 1 of NA, EU and KR? Or is it just group leaders then random draw? I believe the seeding shall be like in WCS S1 finals: 1st place of each region in his own group and last group goes to runner-up of host region. After that random seeding, based on seeding 1 player of each region in a group (i.e. players from 2 other regions) and then finishing it with random remaining player on last spot in group.
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On August 12 2013 12:02 n.DieJokes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 11:52 Greendotz wrote:On August 12 2013 11:50 redviper wrote:On August 12 2013 11:48 c0ldfusion wrote: I don't know if Scarlett would have had a better shot vs Polt.
I uh... shouldn't have bet with my inner fanboy... knew Polt was going to be unstoppable. Its shocking that JD seems to have more fans than Polt. This guy is studying in the US, learning english, practicing on his own on the ladder, and still winning ridiculously high number of tournaments. He is outclassing other people without the facilities and the infrastructure. He is a real talent! I was never into BW, so the lemming like fanboyism for JD is quite intriguing to me Jaedong single-handily saved Oz,,,
??? As in literally saved his life? Or helped him make a name for himself?
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Can't wait to see how Polt matches up against top koreans
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The games were so close, Jaedong often played overagressive out of creep and that's what cost him the wins. I really wanted him to at least get wins, but the games were awesome and you can't blame the result on balance. Polt play was incredible too. I really love the way Jaedong played, but I believe his trades weren't effective enough compared to the economy difference. I still also believe that mules/injects/chronos are bullshit. You shoudln't be able to recover from 40 workers lost or so.
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On August 12 2013 12:06 Greendotz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:02 n.DieJokes wrote:On August 12 2013 11:52 Greendotz wrote:On August 12 2013 11:50 redviper wrote:On August 12 2013 11:48 c0ldfusion wrote: I don't know if Scarlett would have had a better shot vs Polt.
I uh... shouldn't have bet with my inner fanboy... knew Polt was going to be unstoppable. Its shocking that JD seems to have more fans than Polt. This guy is studying in the US, learning english, practicing on his own on the ladder, and still winning ridiculously high number of tournaments. He is outclassing other people without the facilities and the infrastructure. He is a real talent! I was never into BW, so the lemming like fanboyism for JD is quite intriguing to me Jaedong single-handily saved Oz,,, ??? As in literally saved his life? Or helped him make a name for himself?
Hwaseung Oz. The team.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. you must not have seen how well marines scale in BW. I can only presume that they want to stick to their BW counterparts which is that .
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On August 12 2013 12:05 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 12:02 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 12:00 sAsImre wrote:On August 12 2013 11:59 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 12 2013 11:57 CosmicSpiral wrote:On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. All base-mineral units scale well with upgrades. Zerglings and zealots benefit greatly as well. Yes. What makes 3/3 marines so deadly is their low initial cost and 1 supply cost. Same is true also for Zealots and Zerglings. The cheaper the unit the more worthwhile upgrading it becomes. imo marines have two big advantages: the fact they're ranged which means scale really well in numbers and the fact they've such a wonderful synergy with medivacs. The main issue in the current TvZ metagame is that zerg has not figured out their proper hive timing and swarm hosts are utterly useless against bio-mine. Are they? As a protoss player - I thought in theory they are basically perfect counter to the mines themselves (well, BLs are, bou can get SHs easier). Just tank mines with free units and then kill the rest with ling/baneling.
In theory you're right.
In practice they aren't because of the kind of micro it takes to control them for the specific purpose of countering widow mines.
Factor in the relatively poor speed of the Swarm Host as an added problem.
TvZ if you haven't noticed is played VERY VERY fast, units that lack mobility like Tanks/Thors/Broodlords/Swarm Hosts and even at times Infestors have a really hard time finding their way into the metagame because their mobility becomes a huge problem.
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What about changing the cost to go from Lair to Hive. Make it 150/100 instead of 200/150. It'll help Zerg get Hive quicker, as there's more incentives to get that oh so important Zergling upgrade.
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On August 12 2013 11:57 PhoenixVoid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 11:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 12 2013 11:50 redviper wrote:On August 12 2013 11:48 c0ldfusion wrote: I don't know if Scarlett would have had a better shot vs Polt.
I uh... shouldn't have bet with my inner fanboy... knew Polt was going to be unstoppable. Its shocking that JD seems to have more fans than Polt. This guy is studying in the US, learning english, practicing on his own on the ladder, and still winning ridiculously high number of tournaments. He is outclassing other people without the facilities and the infrastructure. He is a real talent! Polt has a huge fan base- and rightly so- for all the reasons you mentioned. The majority of Jaedong's fan base comes from how amazing he was at BW- which is also completely justified. Its not like Jaedong came out of nowhere to suddenly capture the hearts of many people. There is a reason why people have such high expectations for Jaedong, because he was one of the best in BW historically, and people translate their fanboyism for Jaedong across games.
If you seen jaedongs games .. you will be surprised how good he is .. and its not like some players who dominate for a short time .. jaedong was really good until the end of BW .. he is probably the second best BW player of all time .. next to flash of course .. no one is better than flash up to date in BW ..
the thing why people have high expectation is because he was one the few people carrying the zerg race throughout the BW scene of course no disrespect to savior who changed the playstyle of zerg entirely ..
the thing is broodwar is mechanically harder .. thats why people are impressed by him having insane multitasking and micro skills
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On August 12 2013 12:07 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 11:54 bigbadgreen wrote: why does marine still scale so hard with upgrades now that there are mines? in WOL I can understand why, but not in HOTS. you must not have seen how well marines scale in BW. I can only presume that they want to stick to their BW counterparts which is that .
the design of a low dmg fast attack unit /w range and a steroid has 0 options other than scaling uber hard with upgrades.
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another fan favourite taken out by somebody else.I really do not know how this dude claims to be studying english in the USA,He has the fluency of a romanian second grader.Really you learn better english from watching movies and cartoons.Dunno what professors he has at the university but I guess oral examinations are not a must.I really wanted jd to win.He has had to many silver finishes.And he just abuses marines and widow mines.
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