(Vote): PartinG vs RorO (Vote): Afrotoss vs TurN (Vote): s2 vs Storku (Vote): FanTasy vs Reality (Vote): Rain vs Solar (Vote): Bisu vs Jangbi
Playoff Picture
If Khan win today, they will be one game behind SKT. They will have to overtake them completely, not just tie them, if Khan want to make the playoffs because of their point differential. Khan will have 3 games remaining while SKT will have 4 games remaining after today.
KT vs STX will also have huge implications. If KT wins, they will lock up a spot in the playoffs because Khan will be unable to overtake them even if Khan win today, only tie them with a worse differential (max of -4, while KT will have a minimum of +1). If STX wins, they will tie KT, but not overtake them due to a worse differential. With 4 games left after today's games, this head to head will be very important in determining playoff positions.
Woongjin still need to win 2/4 games to tie up first place, assuming KT keep winning. They can keep first place with one win if KT can't make up the differential. If KT lose today Woongjin will only need one more win to seal first.
I would like to see Solar win. he seems like a player with a lot of promise but whenever he qualifies for the GSL he gets screwed by his first matchup.
Stork, someday when the team is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys, ask them to go in there with all they've got and win just one for the Gipper. I don't know where I'll be then, but I'll know about it. And I'll be happy.
wow, an actual night of proleague with playoff implications. biggest night left for proleague till the playoffs.
IF SKT wins:
- They will be 3 games up on Samsung with only three games remaining for the boys in blue. With a -20 (and anywhere from -21 to -24 after their loss to SKT), they will be trying to catch a SKT team with a +16 (and anywhere from +17 to +20 after their win). The best Samsung could do would go 3-0 (4-0) in all matches, and for SKT to go 0-4 (0-4) in all matches. If that unlikely outcome occurred, it would end up as:
Samsung: 21-21 (-9~-12) SKT: 21-21 (1~4)
As you can see, if SKT wins tonight, they will be into the playoffs 100%. Samsung and CJ will have no chance of catching SKT.
IF Khan wins:
- Khan would go to 19-20 and SKT would go to 20-18. They would still be two losses down in the loss column, but Khan could go 3-0 in their last three, end up 22-20 and advance if SKT goes 0-4 or 1-3 in their final four games. They could also get in over STX, so a Samsung win tonight could put them in a good position if STX also loses to KT.
IF STX wins over KT:
- Woongjin would be four games up on KT with four games left. Stars could still choke the 1st place finish away if they went 0-4 along with KT going 4-0, plus Stars losing their final matches 1-4/0-4 and KT going 4-0/4-1, but it's highly unlikely that KT overtakes Stars if they lose tonight.
- If STX wins and Khan loses, it depends on map score if STX clinches tonight. If STX wins 4-1/4-0 and Khan loses 0-4/1-4, then I'm pretty sure Khan cannot mathematically catch STX, so SKT and Khan would both confirm their spots in the playoffs, giving us the final four with still four games (or three for some) to decide the playoff seeding.
IF KT wins over STX:
- KT would be only three games behind Stars with four games left. If KT wins all four and Stars lost all four, then KT Rolster would be the #1 seed. That seems unlikely, but remember Stars closes out the season against SKT, Khan, STX and finally KT, the four best teams besides them in the league and all still fighting for a playoff spot. If KT went 3-1 and Stars went 0-4, or KT went 4-0 and Stars went 1-3, there would still be a slight chance for KT to take 1st, but it'd come down to if KT could make up the map score. KT should be aiming for all kills every night.
- With a STX loss and Khan win, they could go from dying in one night to being right back into the race. Seeing as it's almost impossible for them to catch either SKT or STX through map score, it doesn't matter that much how Khan wins and STX loses, but they need to grab a win and hope STX loses. If Khan wins and STX also picks up a victory, then the only way for Khan to surpass them would be a 3-0 Khan finish and 0-4 STX win, or a case where Khan goes 3-0 (with an amazing map score ratio) and STX goes 1-3 (and get killed in their three losses and BARELY win their one win).
On June 17 2013 11:44 lichter wrote: I'm not putting that in the second post just because you showed me up with your Fionn-y effort and now I look lazy
How do you look lazy? If anybody Fionn looks foolish because SKT will win tonight so all that effort was useless.
On June 17 2013 11:44 lichter wrote: I'm not putting that in the second post just because you showed me up with your Fionn-y effort and now I look lazy
How do you look lazy? If anybody Fionn looks foolish because SKT will win tonight so all that effort was useless.
edit: still, thanks for the post Fionn <3
I want Khan to win but I'm going to agree with you to save face >.>
Without wishing to stir BisuDagger from his currently chilled state into fanatic fanyboy mode, Bisu does seem to be being picked pretty regularly of late, bodes well for his SC2 future I hope!
Jangbi has impressed me of late too, it's nice to see that big BW names are transitioning well. Some got really good really quickly, some are slowly but surely getting there and some just give you that occasional great game that gives you hope for their development.
On June 17 2013 15:01 Wombat_NI wrote: Without wishing to stir BisuDagger from his currently chilled state into fanatic fanyboy mode, Bisu does seem to be being picked pretty regularly of late, bodes well for his SC2 future I hope!
Jangbi has impressed me of late too, it's nice to see that big BW names are transitioning well. Some got really good really quickly, some are slowly but surely getting there and some just give you that occasional great game that gives you hope for their development.
Bisu has appeared in many if not most of the non All Kill HoTS rounds actually
On June 17 2013 15:10 vol_ wrote: screw the twitch stream -.- why do they not link to the perfectly fine youtube stream when twitch is always so shoddy
On June 17 2013 15:10 vol_ wrote: screw the twitch stream -.- why do they not link to the perfectly fine youtube stream when twitch is always so shoddy
Parting went for a nexus first, while RorO went hatch pool hatch. PartinG decided to get a stargate and 2 voidrays, but it masked a +1 zealot sentry attack. RorO held it off not suffering any real losses, and went up to 6 gasses quickly and already had an early lair. PartinG didn't lose anything either and got his third, while RorO got a 4th and eventually a fifth while going spire behind his roach hydra ling army. Parting pushed out with blink and a substantial gateway army, but mutas were already out by the time Parting was halfway across the map. Base race ensued, with PartinG losing all his nexi and most of his probes, while RorO lost his mutas, most of his armies, but had a base in the lower right. With spine crawlers and the remnants of his army and drones RorO was able to hold off PartinG who had no army, no probes, and no bases left
On June 17 2013 15:31 WigglingSquid wrote: Oh Twitch. If only YT's interface wasn't so appallingly inconvenient.
I link directly to the game so there's no interface to appallingly navigate T_T
That's not it. On Twitch, I can have an almost screen-wide stream free of clutter without resorting to full screen, so that I can freely switch around to TL or other running software. On YT, it's either fullscreen or having the stream taking up a quarter of the screen with all manners of clutter around it: description and, frighteningly, comments.
On June 17 2013 15:31 WigglingSquid wrote: Oh Twitch. If only YT's interface wasn't so appallingly inconvenient.
I link directly to the game so there's no interface to appallingly navigate T_T
That's not it. On Twitch, I can have an almost screen-wide stream with clutter without resorting to full screen, so that I can freely switch around to TL or other running software. On YT, it's either fullscreen or having the stream taking up a quarter of the screen with all manners of clutter around it: description and, frighteningly, comments.
Ah. Full screen has never mattered to me since I can only watch on 360p at most haha
Explains why my LRs always have really lousy or inaccurate time stamps
On June 17 2013 15:42 lichter wrote: Hydra was the best Zerg in PL? lololol
Hydra definitely looked like one toward the end of WoL, then HotS came and he sucked again, yet his overall score is still scary. He just needs more time to learn the game you know
On June 17 2013 15:39 lichter wrote: For those who missed Game 1:
Parting went for a nexus first, while RorO went hatch pool hatch. PartinG decided to get a stargate and 2 voidrays, but it masked a +1 zealot sentry attack. RorO held it off not suffering any real losses, and went up to 6 gasses quickly and already had an early lair. PartinG didn't lose anything either and got his third, while RorO got a 4th and eventually a fifth while going spire behind his roach hydra ling army. Parting pushed out with blink and a substantial gateway army, but mutas were already out by the time Parting was halfway across the map. Base race ensued, with PartinG losing all his nexi and most of his probes, while RorO lost his mutas, most of his armies, but had a base in the lower right. With spine crawlers and the remnants of his army and drones RorO was able to hold off PartinG who had no army, no probes, and no bases left
good description TY sounds like a classic roro lategame decision
On June 17 2013 15:39 lichter wrote: For those who missed Game 1:
Parting went for a nexus first, while RorO went hatch pool hatch. PartinG decided to get a stargate and 2 voidrays, but it masked a +1 zealot sentry attack. RorO held it off not suffering any real losses, and went up to 6 gasses quickly and already had an early lair. PartinG didn't lose anything either and got his third, while RorO got a 4th and eventually a fifth while going spire behind his roach hydra ling army. Parting pushed out with blink and a substantial gateway army, but mutas were already out by the time Parting was halfway across the map. Base race ensued, with PartinG losing all his nexi and most of his probes, while RorO lost his mutas, most of his armies, but had a base in the lower right. With spine crawlers and the remnants of his army and drones RorO was able to hold off PartinG who had no army, no probes, and no bases left
good description TY sounds like a classic roro lategame decision
Unlike most Zergs he intelligently threw all his minerals into spine crawlers, which finished just in time to hold off and trim Parting's army. Parting did make the mistake of not sending a zealot to follow the running drones. RorO also needlessly lost all his mutas by not grouping his units right. It was still an exciting game though, base trades like that can be fun too
Arise, Arise, Players of Samsung! Fell deeds awake, fire and slaughter! spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered, a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now, ride now! Ride to the Playoffs!
On June 17 2013 16:17 Heartland wrote: Hey, just got here. Why does the OP say Turn won when the game is still going?
Yeah I don't understand. Are some people in the future?
I AM FROM THE FUTURE, yes
lol its called being in korea, where it's like 17 hours ahead or some sh*t
west coast, LAST coast
Korea time zone or near that is best for SC2 yes
acutally i think aus is the best time for sc2, we get gsl pl all in the afternoon/night, mlg, wcs, iem, all perfect times i think only dreamhack is during our sleep time.
On June 17 2013 16:17 Heartland wrote: Hey, just got here. Why does the OP say Turn won when the game is still going?
Yeah I don't understand. Are some people in the future?
I AM FROM THE FUTURE, yes
lol its called being in korea, where it's like 17 hours ahead or some sh*t
west coast, LAST coast
Korea time zone or near that is best for SC2 yes
acutally i think aus is the best time for sc2, we get gsl pl all in the afternoon/night, mlg, wcs, iem, all perfect times i think only dreamhack is during our sleep time.
Yeah. Australia does have it best. NZ second though, I think.
On June 17 2013 16:17 Heartland wrote: Hey, just got here. Why does the OP say Turn won when the game is still going?
Yeah I don't understand. Are some people in the future?
I AM FROM THE FUTURE, yes
lol its called being in korea, where it's like 17 hours ahead or some sh*t
west coast, LAST coast
Korea time zone or near that is best for SC2 yes
acutally i think aus is the best time for sc2, we get gsl pl all in the afternoon/night, mlg, wcs, iem, all perfect times i think only dreamhack is during our sleep time.
Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
On June 17 2013 16:43 tl2212 wrote: vs hydra/ling wouldn't zealots do a lot better than stalkers?
Not on creep. Unless you have forcefields. Even then it's iffy if you don't cut perfectly such that the forcefields run out exactly as you kill all the trapped hydras, or else your zealots get shot to death by backrow hydras
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
Puh-leeze, Revival lost 10 in a row, so Stork only ties his record. How dare you try to prematurely take that away from him??
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
Puh-leeze, Revival lost 10 in a row, so Stork only ties his record. How dare you try to prematurely take that away from him??
It appears you are correct, I think I heard the 9 from Fionn or something so we can just blame him.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play a passive Protoss style.
In WoL I was saying " I wish this was more like BW " about 10 times a day, during the infestor/bl era. HotS is pretty good so far but I do wish we had Reavers.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
What is this? Did you really watch Stork playing BW back in the days? Because what you said is flatout wrong.
On June 17 2013 16:51 Dodgin wrote: In WoL I was saying " I wish this was more like BW " about 10 times a day, during the infestor/bl era. HotS is pretty good so far but I do wish we had Reavers.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
I think I can give you an example: marine-tank-medivac TvT in WoL was all about the decision making, you were playing a game of chess only on a very high speed. TvT in HotS is hellbat-drops. Hellbat-drops need micro, defending against them in particular needs good and quick micro. But in my opinion it's just a way worse kind of game. I really loved the old TvT because I could out-smart my opponents, now I can only hope that I see the medivacs in time, there is not much thinking involved
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
I think I can give you an example: marine-tank-medivac TvT in WoL was all about the decision making, you were playing a game of chess only on a very high speed. TvT in HotS is hellbat-drops. Hellbat-drops need micro, defending against them in particular needs good and quick micro. But in my opinion it's just a way worse kind of game. I really loved the old TvT because I could out-smart my opponents, now I can only hope that I see the medivacs in time, there is not much thinking involved
Ah, I see. Yes, I agree. That makes perfect sense. (PvP is the best mirror right now, IMO.)
I thought he was referring to macro requirements in SC2 as opposed to BW. This I did not understand. Hence my question.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
I think I can give you an example: marine-tank-medivac TvT in WoL was all about the decision making, you were playing a game of chess only on a very high speed. TvT in HotS is hellbat-drops. Hellbat-drops need micro, defending against them in particular needs good and quick micro. But in my opinion it's just a way worse kind of game. I really loved the old TvT because I could out-smart my opponents, now I can only hope that I see the medivacs in time, there is not much thinking involved
I think that WoL was more coherently designed, HotS is more ambitious but is held together with duct-tape. We have more micro and multitasking, but it's done by adding ugly fixes like having unkillable super strong harass units. It might fall apart in the end, but for now it's more exciting I suppose.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
SC2 devs are strongly focusing their design updates on the "spectacular" end of the skill spectrum, which requires mad micro and speed, but there is little effort to improve or extend the strategic side of the game. Some players end up at a disadvantage for this.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
I think I can give you an example: marine-tank-medivac TvT in WoL was all about the decision making, you were playing a game of chess only on a very high speed. TvT in HotS is hellbat-drops. Hellbat-drops need micro, defending against them in particular needs good and quick micro. But in my opinion it's just a way worse kind of game. I really loved the old TvT because I could out-smart my opponents, now I can only hope that I see the medivacs in time, there is not much thinking involved
I think that WoL was more coherently designed, HotS is more ambitious but is held together with duct-tape. We have more micro and multitasking, but it's done by adding ugly fixes like having unkillable super strong harass units. It might fall apart in the end, but for now it's more exciting I suppose.
I agree, HotS is way more exciting to watch and most games are also more exciting to play. But it seems kinda fragile, the gameplay could get ugly really fast. I guess we have to hope for Blizzard to keep tabs on the game and do the right things to keep it stable. And to be honest: they are doing a better job in HotS so far than they did ever before
On June 17 2013 17:01 Daswollvieh wrote: Youtube is not working for me, am I doing something wrong?
You can start by explaining whether or not your ID is referring to sheep
Doesn't it mean something like "That's what we want"? I really should get better at German..
Heh, it actually does sound like that when you say it out loud
I thought "woll" was like "wollen." I'll be quiet now :/
In other news, go fanta!
Das Woll-Vieh would be 'The wool-cattle', which could be interpreted as a sheep :D or you pronounce it slightly different, then it's 'that's what we want' in a dialect
On June 17 2013 17:09 Daswollvieh wrote: I guess the youtube stream works everywhere except for Germany. Must be some kind of GEMA bullshit.
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
SC2 devs are strongly focusing their design updates on the "spectacular" end of the skill spectrum, which requires mad micro and speed, but there is little effort to improve or extend the strategic side of the game. Some players end up at a disadvantage for this.
Thanks for the response. Yes, I suppose that is true. It is regrettable, from both a player and viewer perspective. But, I suppose the inherent design of SC2 does favour speed, mobility and, as you say, mad micro. I doubt it can be changed in any substantive way, even for LOTV. Too many sunk costs and a well furrowed design path to turn back, or even turn aside.
On June 17 2013 17:13 FetTerBender wrote: Anyone else is getting the subscribe to proleague overlay on random occasions without switching to a higher quality? :o
On June 17 2013 17:01 Daswollvieh wrote: Youtube is not working for me, am I doing something wrong?
You can start by explaining whether or not your ID is referring to sheep
Doesn't it mean something like "That's what we want"? I really should get better at German..
Heh, it actually does sound like that when you say it out loud
I thought "woll" was like "wollen." I'll be quiet now :/
In other news, go fanta!
Das Woll-Vieh would be 'The wool-cattle', which could be interpreted as a sheep :D or you pronounce it slightly different, then it's 'that's what we want' in a dialect
On June 17 2013 16:40 Dodgin wrote: Stork is now officially on the worst losing streak of the 12-13 Proleague season, he edges out Revival's 9 game losing streak with this game to make it 10.
He's 2-12 in HotS.
I never saw him play in BW. So, I don't know if this is how he looks when he is playing, but he looks bored when he is playing SC2. Did he always look like that when playing SC? Maybe SC2 Protoss just does not suit him. :-/
(That, or he is just over SC altogether.)
in bw stork was known for having a very low apm, he would often just mass carriers and proceed to 1a as protoss (which was very viable in bw). his style was not to play very tense and fast , but to be calm and try to think and always make good decisions. in sc2 though you neeeed a high apm to manage your army and macro at the same time.
maybe he should just go for max 200/200 3base protoss style every game instead.
Ah, thanks. It must suck to play a whole new game and realise you may not have the skill-set to play it well. His blink Stalker micro seemed alright, except that Stalkers suck against Hydras (and in this game were not even upgraded). Being calm and being able to think are facets of all good Protoss players. So, yes, perhaps he should try to play passive Protoss style.
I'd say it's actually a bit sad on the design side of SC2. Moreso in HotS, where Blizzard repeatedly stated that they are striving to add "microable", aggression/multitasking-oriented units to increase the skill-ceiling, as if micro was the sole determinant of skill.
I'm not sure I get what you mean. Would you care to explain?
SC2 devs are strongly focusing their design updates on the "spectacular" end of the skill spectrum, which requires mad micro and speed, but there is little effort to improve or extend the strategic side of the game. Some players end up at a disadvantage for this.
Thanks for the response. Yes, I suppose that is true. It is regrettable, from both a player and viewer perspective. But, I suppose the inherent design of SC2 does favour speed, mobility and, as you say, mad micro. I doubt it can be changed in any substantive way, even for LOTV. Too many sunk costs and a well furrowed design path to turn back, or even turn aside.
To be fair I think sc2 is actually a less microable game than BW due to the high damage output of units. It's harder to dance forward to take out key units and retreat. It's tougher to micro a smaller army to destroy a bigger one due to death balls and clumping, but also because of the damage thing. Sc2 rather seems to reward perfect timings and compositions.
On June 17 2013 16:51 Dodgin wrote: In WoL I was saying " I wish this was more like BW " about 10 times a day, during the infestor/bl era. HotS is pretty good so far but I do wish we had Reavers.
Oh man... I miss so much "Reeeeebooo" screams.
Yeah Reaver and Lurker are a zillion times better than Colossus and Swarm Hosts.
On June 17 2013 17:01 Daswollvieh wrote: Youtube is not working for me, am I doing something wrong?
You can start by explaining whether or not your ID is referring to sheep
Doesn't it mean something like "That's what we want"? I really should get better at German..
Heh, it actually does sound like that when you say it out loud
I thought "woll" was like "wollen." I'll be quiet now :/
In other news, go fanta!
Das Woll-Vieh would be 'The wool-cattle', which could be interpreted as a sheep :D or you pronounce it slightly different, then it's 'that's what we want' in a dialect
On June 17 2013 17:09 Daswollvieh wrote: I guess the youtube stream works everywhere except for Germany. Must be some kind of GEMA bullshit.
On June 17 2013 17:18 aZealot wrote: That must be the nth time that YT link has been posted in this thread, lol. It's in the OP!
Nobody reads the OP
but as soon as the OP is not updated for a game or two, everyone starts raging hardcore and the one who does the op gets reported xD
I promised to replace the OP with wallaby pictures if Bisu wins; I hope nobody reports me. Although I'll have to do it on my phone so it will take a while, so maybe people will report me before I get it done lol
Just wanted to reply to something said about Stork in BW earlier: Stork had relatively low average APM for a pro player in Brood War, but he had very good multitasking and ability to spike his APM where it mattered; his signature styles were shuttle/reaver micro-based plays and carrier timings - the latter being about as far from a max out and a-move kinda thing as it ever gets, lol. BW carriers were all about non-stop micro, you literally HAD to micro them because carrier builds were very fragile and susceptible to a variety of Terran timing attacks and you needed to do wear down, delay, and ultimately prevent the Terran army from reaching your base with constant pokes over high ground and kiting quite similarly to the way Zergs would use mutalisks from delaying Terran timings.
The reason why players like Stork and Bisu aren't having amazing results or showing cool micro tricks in SC2 is because SC2 micro is very different, and also has much less of an impact than it did in BW. This isn't a dig at SC2 at all, but it's just a completely different game in that regard and the micro-based styles do not translate from BW to SC2 very well. For that same reason you see plenty of other players whom many expected to dominate remaining rather mediocre (Jaedong, Fantasy, Leta, Effort, etc).
I like that spotting probe from Rain. Patrols out front, sees the Zergling, drops the core, plugs the hole, taps out to another probe and returns its cargo. A hardworking probe, that one.
with that schedule the Proleague guys probably expect a quick 4-0 every series. Oh well, did the op for the next series, you can vote on some polls already if you want to: KT vs STX
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
Bisu take the torch
Dunno about random protoss, but he is the 3rd place for most wins in proleague.
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
Bisu take the torch
What are you on about? Rain is an excellent player!
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
Bisu take the torch
lol wut? rain is beast still he only ever lose to Protoss and cheeky build like this. Tbh if you don't know this build is coming it's really hard to stop.
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
Bisu take the torch
What are you talking about? This is just one game, it happens, he is still pretty good and still among the three best Protoss players imo.
On June 17 2013 17:38 Malphite wrote: What happened to rain.. he used to be the innovation... now he's some random protoss... Sad... Rain was one of my fav protoss.
Bisu take the torch
oh no someone did a clever build that has been almost never been shown before! Nothing happened to rain. He was tricked and the Zerg did a cool strat.
I've watched thousands of pro games and I can recall maybe 2-3 times where contaminate makes a difference in a game so that was amazing.
Absolutely beautiful. Can't help but put myself in Rain's head though
"Oh, an overseer. Guess I'm getting scouted. Aw damn it had enough energy to drop a contaminate before it died. Weird that more zergs don't do that, huh? Guess my colossus is slowed down a bit but I should be okay"
"Wait, another overseer with tons of energy? From ...above my natural? I really, REALLY need this colossus out"
On June 17 2013 17:44 pyorotemjin wrote: Absolutely beautiful. Can't help but put myself in Rain's head though
"Oh, an overseer. Guess I'm getting scouted. Aw damn it had enough energy to drop a contaminate before it died. Weird that more zergs don't do that, huh? Guess my colossus is slowed down a bit but I should be okay"
"Wait, another overseer with tons of energy? From ...above my natural? I really, REALLY need this colossus out"
Is anyone else dumbfounded that Jangbi was sent out instead of Roro, especially knowing that Telecom was gonna throw out a Protoss that was at least as good at PvP as the one he just lost to?
On June 17 2013 18:30 Malphite wrote: my point exactly... Rain is a 2nd tier protoss now... Man i hope he regains his unrealness... He doesn't get HOTS yet....
Jangbi is the real deal. gonna be the protoss hope
Rain isn't a second tier Protoss, but he is prone to getting sniped. SKT needs to start sending out Fanta or S2 as their ace, especially against weaker teams like Khan who are pretty much guaranteed to bring someone with a snipe cheese specifically aimed for Rain in the ace match.
On June 17 2013 18:32 Heartland wrote: So who does SKT T1 have to beat now to be in playoffs?
I think SKT can beat anyone and guarantee a spot in the playoffs. Hell I think with some bad luck on Khan's part, they could get a spot in the playoffs without winning a single match from now on.
Speaking of Protoss hopes, can we not just have players be top-tier and stay there instead of rotating all the time?!
That said, I don't really see a falloff from Rain, have high hopes that his straight-up play and close to watertight defensive play will serve him well in the coming individual leagues.
On June 17 2013 18:30 Malphite wrote: my point exactly... Rain is a 2nd tier protoss now... Man i hope he regains his unrealness... He doesn't get HOTS yet....
Jangbi is the real deal. gonna be the protoss hope
Wha....
BO loss. Jangbi played well to top it off.
If anything, the next thing Rain should do in his game play is to add more all-in/timing attacks to his arsenal. He's getting predictable with his safe macro play.
On June 17 2013 18:37 lichter wrote: Anyone wanna give me a recap? I was editing the OP and the game was done before I finished T_T
Standard opening from both, jangbi proxys a stargate, rain tries to scout it with mothership core but doesn't find it. Rain takes his natural and goes robo, jangbi goes 3 gate and saves his oracles while trying to harass. Rain activates nexus cannon at his natural but as soon as it wears off he's overrun.
On June 17 2013 18:30 Malphite wrote: my point exactly... Rain is a 2nd tier protoss now... Man i hope he regains his unrealness... He doesn't get HOTS yet....
Jangbi is the real deal. gonna be the protoss hope
Wha....
BO loss. Jangbi played well to top it off.
If anything, the next thing Rain should do in his game play is to add more all-in/timing attacks to his arsenal. He's getting predictable with his safe macro play.
I've watch proleague for the past couple months... Rain is horrible in hots. he's one of my fav protoss' so i watch every game.
His play doesn't work in HOTS. He's just not the same dominate player as in Wings. Just hurts my feelings when i watch him play because he used to be the Innovation of kespa
On June 17 2013 18:37 lichter wrote: Anyone wanna give me a recap? I was editing the OP and the game was done before I finished T_T
Standard opening from both, jangbi proxys a stargate, rain tries to scout it with mothership core but doesn't find it. Rain takes his natural and goes robo, jangbi goes 3 gate and saves his oracles while trying to harass. Rain activates nexus cannon at his natural but as soon as it wears off he's overrun.
On June 17 2013 18:30 Malphite wrote: my point exactly... Rain is a 2nd tier protoss now... Man i hope he regains his unrealness... He doesn't get HOTS yet....
Jangbi is the real deal. gonna be the protoss hope
Wha....
BO loss. Jangbi played well to top it off.
If anything, the next thing Rain should do in his game play is to add more all-in/timing attacks to his arsenal. He's getting predictable with his safe macro play.
I've watch proleague for the past couple months... Rain is horrible in hots. he's one of my fav protoss' so i watch every game.
His play doesn't work in HOTS. He's just not the same dominate player as in Wings. Just hurts my feelings when i watch him play because he used to be the Innovation of kespa
Hard to blame him for the loss to Solar. It was a brilliant build designed to beat a greedy toss like Rain.
If Rain lost his first match they should have used Fantasy or Bisu imo. Bisu have beaten RorO and also beat Jangbi pretty convincingly, but still didn't get sent out ;o
If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
On June 17 2013 20:42 Caladbolg wrote: The SKT T1 rule: Only two Protoss can be good at the same time (used to be Bisu-Best then Bisu-Rain then Rain-Parting).
How many protosses does SKT really need though? Is Boxer seriously gonna field a 7-man protoss team for the playoffs?
On June 17 2013 20:42 Caladbolg wrote: The SKT T1 rule: Only two Protoss can be good at the same time (used to be Bisu-Best then Bisu-Rain then Rain-Parting).
How many protosses does SKT really need though? Is Boxer seriously gonna field a 7-man protoss team for the playoffs?
That guarantees 2 wins! Hahaha I have a feeling that soO will be back with a vengeance though, and Fantasy will start becoming the true ace of SKT with Bisu not far behind.
On June 17 2013 20:42 Caladbolg wrote: The SKT T1 rule: Only two Protoss can be good at the same time (used to be Bisu-Best then Bisu-Rain then Rain-Parting).
How many protosses does SKT really need though? Is Boxer seriously gonna field a 7-man protoss team for the playoffs?
That guarantees 2 wins! Hahaha I have a feeling that soO will be back with a vengeance though, and Fantasy will start becoming the true ace of SKT with Bisu not far behind.
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
but bisu is a generally bigger name than stork is, and he was the easy one to target i guess. stork's case is just... sad
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
Not really. It just means SKT is really deep. Khan doesn't have anyone better to send out. So I fully disagree. Much worse to watch someone lose 11 games in a row.
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
Not really. It just means SKT is really deep. Khan doesn't have anyone better to send out. So I fully disagree. Much worse to watch someone lose 11 games in a row.
It might just be me but it looks like you two are arguing over the same point.
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
Not really. It just means SKT is really deep. Khan doesn't have anyone better to send out. So I fully disagree. Much worse to watch someone lose 11 games in a row.
It might just be me but it looks like you two are arguing over the same point.
Damn I was hoping to confuse everyone! You foiled my plan. And now people know I don't read their posts. Double damn!
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
Not really. It just means SKT is really deep. Khan doesn't have anyone better to send out. So I fully disagree. Much worse to watch someone lose 11 games in a row.
It might just be me but it looks like you two are arguing over the same point.
Damn I was hoping to confuse everyone! You foiled my plan. And now people know I don't read their posts. Double damn!
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
Loosing is worse than consistently not being sent out though
Not really. It just means SKT is really deep. Khan doesn't have anyone better to send out. So I fully disagree. Much worse to watch someone lose 11 games in a row.
It might just be me but it looks like you two are arguing over the same point.
Damn I was hoping to confuse everyone! You foiled my plan. And now people know I don't read their posts. Double damn!
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
It's because everyone likes Stork. Because he's old. He's got nothing but Starcraft so it would be mean to pick on him.
Bisu is at least really fucking handsome, so if we shit on him, it's only because we are envious of his looks
On June 17 2013 20:39 BisuDagger wrote: If SKT was gonna lose at least Stork could have won a game. Yet you don't see a bunch of ignorant Stork haters parading around like they did for Bisu (and Bisu was never on a losing streak he just never played). Bisu is doing much better lately, I'm hoping soon we can see him as an ace player.
but bisu is a generally bigger name than stork is, and he was the easy one to target i guess. stork's case is just... sad
??? Maybe earlier but towards the end they were basically on the same stardom level imo. People always said if we could combine stork and bisu we d have the perfect protoss.
EPT
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twitch.tv | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)
youtube![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/muOnU.png)
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PartinG <Naro Station> 
RorO
TurN![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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