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On June 09 2013 15:23 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:18 lichter wrote:
I wonder if most of the people ragging on Koreans not knowing English are multilingual. The Europeans obviously are Tbh there are stupid amounts of multilinguals in Europe but not in the other continents. We shouldn't be rude. I mean, many americans only know english. It is a big language, but there are greater languages too.
I think the biggest factor is that english is way more integrated into our culture even if it's not our first language. We watch movies in english, for the most part listen to music in english, when playing online games the commonly spoken language on servers is almost always english, i'm pretty sure this is not necessarily the case over in korea and the rest of asia.
Teaching a language in the classroom only goes so far. I've had 4 years of french training but because i never actually come in contact with it the only thing i can comfortably say is that i don't know how to speak french :p
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On June 09 2013 15:25 Partha wrote:
Chobra seems like the kind of guy who's awesome if you saw once at a 2day event, but would get sick of real quick if we saw him at a lot of other events. Let's just say he did a fucking baller job at WCS and leave it at that.
Why's that? He's not nearly as polarizing as Day9 (who I happen to really like), and a lot of the success they're having with the lounge is from his ability to convey the questions and comments properly to the Korean players. In most other cases where a translator is the go-between in a tournament, you end up getting terrible or stiff-sounding responses, which makes it seem as thought the essence of the question was lost in translation. And it's unfortunate, because it often makes it seem like the players themselves have no personality.
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I've been thinking
When Chobra finally gets poached to sc2
he should change his name to Chobro
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On June 09 2013 15:25 Zinthar wrote:
After seeing this lounge format, it's hard to believe that other televised tournaments have never done this (or if they have, never pulled it off this well). Hopefully Chobra, or other great translators like him, will appear at other tournaments so that this kind of coverage can be done.
Lots of tournaments did this before, problem is that most of them are plain bad even with only English speakers in the lounge. A good host is hard to find, let alone host plus translator.
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On June 09 2013 15:25 Sabu113 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:25 Partha wrote:
Chobra seems like the kind of guy who's awesome if you saw once at a 2day event, but would get sick of real quick if we saw him at a lot of other events. Let's just say he did a fucking baller job at WCS and leave it at that. No. He's just good. He's really solid. Better than a lot of the sc2 guys even and better than any translator since he actually has a stage presence.
Yeah, what's really cool about chobra is that he's more like a third host, that also happens to know korean and can do the translation, than an ordinary translator. He's adding to the discussion and asking questions himself, instead of just translating between the players and the hosts. I really hope we get to see this guy more in the future, he has done a kickass job so far.
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On June 09 2013 15:28 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian
English has roots from all over, including latin and greek, so while it's not as close, they are related, much more than any Asiatic language to english
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On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote:
I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad.
Average english teaching quality in Korea is pretty bad too... languages are not just some abstract rules imo, they are built around cultures. Yet the average teachers over there in Korea have no grasp of english speaking culture so at best they manage to teach some simplistic phrases and words through raw memorization. But they don't teach how to actually have a normal conversation with it.
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On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote:
I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad.
http://www.ets.org/s/toefl/pdf/94227_unlweb.pdf. Page 6.
Korean average TOEFL score is 84.
Japanese is 70.
And there are several countries that are lower scoring than Japan.
Other notable countries:
Vietnam: 77
Thai: 76
French: 86
Spain: 84
German: 97
Dutch: 101
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On June 09 2013 15:29 edgeOut wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:25 Zinthar wrote:
After seeing this lounge format, it's hard to believe that other televised tournaments have never done this (or if they have, never pulled it off this well). Hopefully Chobra, or other great translators like him, will appear at other tournaments so that this kind of coverage can be done. Lots of tournaments did this before, problem is that most of them are plain bad even with only English speakers in the lounge. A good host is hard to find, let alone host plus translator.
Good point -- maybe I never noticed it before because I had no interest in watching because of whatever hosts were doing it.
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On June 09 2013 15:28 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian
I always had the impression modern english and french were related because of the norman invasion?
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Request to end this language discussion despite me having heavily involved myself in it!
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On June 09 2013 15:30 Partha wrote:
Request to end this language discussion despite me having heavily involved myself in it!
"I never asked for this"
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Ah, didn't think of that. I just gave the fanclub a shot (disappointed). thx
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honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
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He even tweeted to his western fans in english, usually kespa players don't bother with that sort of thing.
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On June 09 2013 15:30 Partha wrote:
Request to end this language discussion despite me having heavily involved myself in it!
A c'mon. I actually learned some new stuff because of it :'(
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On June 09 2013 15:29 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:28 Kommander wrote:On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian English has roots from all over, including latin and greek, so while it's not as close, they are related, much more than any Asiatic language to english
English does borrow from a lot of languages but at its core it's a Germanic language.
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EPT
