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On June 09 2013 15:20 Partha wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same Alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. I've always wondered about this- because i've assumed the link between the European languages were stronger than the root between Asian languages. However having said this- old Chinese script serves as major foundation for the 3 major Eastern languages (Chinese, Korean and Japanese).
The Chinese script doesn't serve as the foundation for anything; it's just the way things are (sometimes) written. Japanese is as unrelated linguistically to Chinese as Finnish is to Swedish, There are a lot of Chinese loanwords and the writing system is ultimately derived from Chinese characters, but base vocabulary, grammar, etc. are a lot different. Korean is similarly considered part of a completely different language family.
That said, I think the main reason why Koreans (and other East Asians) aren't as good at English as Europeans is really the level of exposure they get to media with native English speakers. Things like American movies, English-language video games, etc. Even going on English-language forums to talk about these things.
I might be presuming a bit much, but English skill in European countries seems to correlate with how much native media that country consumes -- the French, who seem to be generally English-averse, and the Germans, who dub everything are on the lower end, while Scandinavians seem to have the best English. Koreans mostly play Korean games, watch Korean shows/movies, etc. And sometimes Japanese. Compare it to how good an American's Spanish would be, or an Englishman's French.
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On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote:
honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
Maybe you can show it for us? Whay he missed?
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On June 09 2013 15:25 Prince_Stranger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote:
I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad. Actually In Korea they are using English with their own speech in hangul. Many people I guess know English there. I even heard that sometimes they called 51th state of the USA.
I think it's exactly the same way japanese katakanize english words. In this case the japanese don't consider the word to be english but more a japanese word with english origins. I'm pretty sure it's the same for korean (the languages are also very similar).
Also in Japan, they focus a lot (way too much) on vocabulary so that they can't really speak nor understand a text, but they can know very difficult words in english. I don't know about Korea in this matter though.
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On June 09 2013 15:31 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:29 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 09 2013 15:28 Kommander wrote:On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian English has roots from all over, including latin and greek, so while it's not as close, they are related, much more than any Asiatic language to english English does borrow from a lot of languages but at its core it's a Germanic language.
My point is, I've studied spanish and there are many cognates or similar words between them, but really no comparison with Korean for example except maybe modern words.
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On June 09 2013 15:28 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:23 Wintex wrote:On June 09 2013 15:18 lichter wrote:
I wonder if most of the people ragging on Koreans not knowing English are multilingual. The Europeans obviously are Tbh there are stupid amounts of multilinguals in Europe but not in the other continents. We shouldn't be rude. I mean, many americans only know english. It is a big language, but there are greater languages too. You'll find that tons of people people in Africa are multilingual as well. It makes sense though because in those places you're talking about a lot of different cultures live relatively closer together whereas in places like the US, South America (excluding Brazil), and China, the same language is common over huge areas and so there's less need to learn a second one.
Very true, I'm multilingual. English, Afrikaans and a bit of Sotho and Zulu.
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Looks like I missed out on some pretty great semis. 
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On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote:
honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
interesting comment. i was kinda wondering how good his korean actually was. kinda sad if that's true cause i like him in what he does.
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On June 09 2013 15:29 Gaizokubanou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote:
I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad. Average english teaching quality in Korea is pretty bad too... languages are not just some abstract rules imo, they are built around cultures. Yet the average teachers over there in Korea have no grasp of english speaking culture so at best they manage to teach some simplistic phrases and words through raw memorization. But they don't teach how to actually have a normal conversation with it.
in my experience, it's not up to the teacher to build your interest in learning something
what started the conversation was the fact that soulkey was like the 300th korean pro gamer that said "hey I want to learn english so I can talk to foreign fans"
they'll obviously have to invest time and interest in doing that
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daym, now we can't see Idra being nice on stream.
Soulkey T_T
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On June 09 2013 15:31 Kentredenite wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:20 Partha wrote:On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same Alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. I've always wondered about this- because i've assumed the link between the European languages were stronger than the root between Asian languages. However having said this- old Chinese script serves as major foundation for the 3 major Eastern languages (Chinese, Korean and Japanese). The Chinese script doesn't serve as the foundation for anything; it's just the way things are (sometimes) written. Japanese is as unrelated linguistically to Chinese as Finnish is to Swedish, There are a lot of Chinese loanwords and the writing system is ultimately derived from Chinese characters, but base vocabulary, grammar, etc. are a lot different. Korean is similarly considered part of a completely different language family. That said, I think the main reason why Koreans (and other East Asians) aren't as good at English as Europeans is really the level of exposure they get to media with native English speakers. Things like American movies, English-language video games, etc. Even going on English-language forums to talk about these things. I might be presuming a bit much, but English skill in European countries seems to correlate with how much native media that country consumes -- the French, who seem to be generally English-averse, and the Germans, who dub everything are on the lower end, while Scandinavians seem to have the best English. Koreans mostly play Korean games, watch Korean shows/movies, etc. And sometimes Japanese. Compare it to how good an American's Spanish would be, or an Englishman's French.
Ugh me being a hypocrite. If you understood any Korean vocab (Which I do fortunately) then you would know that many many Chinese words were used as a basis or in some cases the exact same word. If you look at King SaeJyong (The creator of the Korean language) and his works he specifically cites the old Chinese script as a basis upon which the Korean language was created. Please know what you talk about before you talk bro
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Well I am following Chobra. It's a longshot but maybe if enough of us pop up he might come for the other WCS finals.
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Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O
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On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O
Well, it was totally awesome, what can i say...
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United States97276 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O
game was pretty sick
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 09 2013 15:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O game was pretty sick
back to woongjin bros i see
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On June 09 2013 15:29 YourHarry wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote:
I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad. http://www.ets.org/s/toefl/pdf/94227_unlweb.pdf. Page 6. Korean average TOEFL score is 84. Japanese is 70. And there are several countries that are lower scoring than Japan. Other notable countries: Vietnam: 77 Thai: 76 French: 86 Spain: 84 German: 97 Dutch: 101
Ok these were not the results I saw. I should have precised it was like 6-7 years ago too. I don't remember precisely but at least it looks like Korea has improved a lot.
Edit: there were not that many countries in this ranking before.
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On June 09 2013 15:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O game was pretty sick
anyone care to tell us what happened?
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On June 09 2013 15:33 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:31 Kommander wrote:On June 09 2013 15:29 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 09 2013 15:28 Kommander wrote:On June 09 2013 15:19 DustbinBieber wrote:On June 09 2013 15:16 Wegandi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:08 dsousa wrote:On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote:
guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english? I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English. Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem. That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not. Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though. German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian English has roots from all over, including latin and greek, so while it's not as close, they are related, much more than any Asiatic language to english English does borrow from a lot of languages but at its core it's a Germanic language. My point is, I've studied spanish and there are many cognates or similar words between them, but really no comparison with Korean for example except maybe modern words.
Ah I get your point, well I think it's because Spanish and English use practically the same characters whereas Korean uses Hangul.
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On June 09 2013 15:36 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote:
Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O game was pretty sick anyone care to tell us what happened?
Mvp was dead. He won. Awesome.
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EPT
