On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote: I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad.
Ok these were not the results I saw. I should have precised it was like 6-7 years ago too. I don't remember precisely but at least it looks like Korea has improved a lot.
Lol dude that is so fail. The fact that you don't mention your source being so old... and yet you made an argument out of it.... rofl
On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote: guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english?
I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English.
Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem.
That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not.
Not entirely true. We share the same Alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though.
I've always wondered about this- because i've assumed the link between the European languages were stronger than the root between Asian languages. However having said this- old Chinese script serves as major foundation for the 3 major Eastern languages (Chinese, Korean and Japanese).
The Chinese script doesn't serve as the foundation for anything; it's just the way things are (sometimes) written. Japanese is as unrelated linguistically to Chinese as Finnish is to Swedish, There are a lot of Chinese loanwords and the writing system is ultimately derived from Chinese characters, but base vocabulary, grammar, etc. are a lot different. Korean is similarly considered part of a completely different language family.
That said, I think the main reason why Koreans (and other East Asians) aren't as good at English as Europeans is really the level of exposure they get to media with native English speakers. Things like American movies, English-language video games, etc. Even going on English-language forums to talk about these things.
I might be presuming a bit much, but English skill in European countries seems to correlate with how much native media that country consumes -- the French, who seem to be generally English-averse, and the Germans, who dub everything are on the lower end, while Scandinavians seem to have the best English. Koreans mostly play Korean games, watch Korean shows/movies, etc. And sometimes Japanese. Compare it to how good an American's Spanish would be, or an Englishman's French.
Ugh me being a hypocrite. If you understood any Korean vocab (Which I do fortunately) then you would know that many many Chinese words were used as a basis or in some cases the exact same word. If you look at King SaeJyong (The creator of the Korean language) and his works he specifically cites the old Chinese script as a basis upon which the Korean language was created. Please know what you talk about before you talk bro
There's a difference between having vocabulary derived from a language (English has like 70% derived from Latin but isn't a Romance language) and being based on it. Yes, Korean has lots of loanwords from Chinese (similar to English and Latin). So does Japanese. But from a linguistic perspective, the language structures are complete different.
And you're confusing the script with the language. SaeJyong didn't create the language. He created the script (which yes, was based on Chinese).
On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote: honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
Sure bro easy to say watching from home and having more time to think about things, but put you on stage mic in hand and you'll probably fumble your words, pee in your pants and generally wilt on stage. Chobra is easily the best translator I've seen in the scene so far and has hosting skills to boot.
On June 09 2013 15:34 Sabu113 wrote: Well I am following Chobra. It's a longshot but maybe if enough of us pop up he might come for the other WCS finals.
I'm not so sure how well that would work considering he's an OGN employee. It really depends on the negotiations between OGN and MLG/ESL (if it's them hosting the other seasons). There's probably a good chance for him to show up to Blizzcon though.
On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote: guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english?
I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English.
Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem.
That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not.
Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though.
German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian
English has roots from all over, including latin and greek, so while it's not as close, they are related, much more than any Asiatic language to english
English does borrow from a lot of languages but at its core it's a Germanic language.
My point is, I've studied spanish and there are many cognates or similar words between them, but really no comparison with Korean for example except maybe modern words.
Ah I get your point, well I think it's because Spanish and English use practically the same characters whereas Korean uses Hangul.
European Languages have a different basis from alot of Asian ones, like fundamentally different. Europe focuses on an alphabet of limited characters to base words on. Asian languages often use specific characters for every significant phenomenon and derives from the shape, logic or form of phenomenon.
Imagine having a specific alphabet character for the word "rain" or "sun" or "way" or "life", it just wouldn't work in the European languages because it would grow arbitrarily complex.
On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote: honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
interesting comment. i was kinda wondering how good his korean actually was. kinda sad if that's true cause i like him in what he does.
Well he's not that bad, I think it's going to be fixed with time. The more he stays in Korea, he'll get to know more of the cultural pretenses, and like better ways to translate this and that.
He has potential though, I think he needs more experience doing these sort of stuffs.
On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote: guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english?
I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English.
Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem.
That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not.
Not entirely true. We share the same Alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though.
I've always wondered about this- because i've assumed the link between the European languages were stronger than the root between Asian languages. However having said this- old Chinese script serves as major foundation for the 3 major Eastern languages (Chinese, Korean and Japanese).
The Chinese script doesn't serve as the foundation for anything; it's just the way things are (sometimes) written. Japanese is as unrelated linguistically to Chinese as Finnish is to Swedish, There are a lot of Chinese loanwords and the writing system is ultimately derived from Chinese characters, but base vocabulary, grammar, etc. are a lot different. Korean is similarly considered part of a completely different language family.
That said, I think the main reason why Koreans (and other East Asians) aren't as good at English as Europeans is really the level of exposure they get to media with native English speakers. Things like American movies, English-language video games, etc. Even going on English-language forums to talk about these things.
I might be presuming a bit much, but English skill in European countries seems to correlate with how much native media that country consumes -- the French, who seem to be generally English-averse, and the Germans, who dub everything are on the lower end, while Scandinavians seem to have the best English. Koreans mostly play Korean games, watch Korean shows/movies, etc. And sometimes Japanese. Compare it to how good an American's Spanish would be, or an Englishman's French.
Ugh me being a hypocrite. If you understood any Korean vocab (Which I do fortunately) then you would know that many many Chinese words were used as a basis or in some cases the exact same word. If you look at King SaeJyong (The creator of the Korean language) and his works he specifically cites the old Chinese script as a basis upon which the Korean language was created. Please know what you talk about before you talk bro
Yes, I think Korean is a language created on purpose to replace Chinese as their official language. And they still use a lot of Chinese words and idioms for posters and art work etc, even young kids can understand them.
On June 09 2013 15:34 GolemMadness wrote: Bogus vs MVP game 2, 403 recommended? O_O
game was pretty sick
anyone care to tell us what happened?
Early on Bogus got in and did a shitload of damage crippling MVP (he was at 9 scvs). Bogus then played very defensively and continued his lead.
He was very oddly passive despite a huge advantage and when he did get aggressive he took some very shitty engagements.
Even so though, what made the game awesome was how stoic MVP was. His macro was surprisingly good all day, and he hit two very clutch timings. The first when Bogus was transitioning over to air and the second was a final assault by MVP that just barely broke through and allowed him to camp his production.
On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote: honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
Sure bro easy to say watching from home and having more time to think about things, but put you on stage mic in hand and you'll probably fumble your words, pee in your pants and generally wilt on stage. Chobra is easily the best translator I've seen in the scene so far and has hosting skills to boot.
He should become a translator then. Probably will make good money if he's really better than Chobra.
I'm honestly disappointed that more of you don't sign up for the Soulkey fan club. He says he wants more to do with his foreign fans, but on the biggest foreign Starcraft website in the world he is only at 12 pages?
Imagine if anyone ever shows him TL fanclubs, and he has such a small one; he'd be so disappointed.
Sign your asses up. He's an amazing player throughout BW and his new SC2 career, and he's just shown he has an awesome personality on OGN2, too.
On June 09 2013 15:40 Lunareste wrote: I'm honestly disappointed that more of you don't sign up for the Soulkey fan club. He says he wants more to do with his foreign fans, but on the biggest foreign Starcraft website in the world he is only at 12 pages?
Imagine if anyone ever shows him TL fanclubs, and he has such a small one; he'd be so disappointed.
Sign your asses up. He's an amazing player throughout BW and his new SC2 career, and he's just shown he has an awesome personality on OGN2, too.
On June 09 2013 15:40 Lunareste wrote: I'm honestly disappointed that more of you don't sign up for the Soulkey fan club. He says he wants more to do with his foreign fans, but on the biggest foreign Starcraft website in the world he is only at 12 pages?
Imagine if anyone ever shows him TL fanclubs, and he has such a small one; he'd be so disappointed.
Sign your asses up. He's an amazing player throughout BW and his new SC2 career, and he's just shown he has an awesome personality on OGN2, too.
I will NOT disappoint a random stranger on the internet. Signing up now!
On June 09 2013 15:05 JP Dayne wrote: guys, is there a particular reason why there are like no pro players that can actually speak english?
I agree its odd. We all think of these guys as super smart, but not a one can do an interview in English.
Look at Dimaga, TLO and Stephano. They all had a different first language than English, but they all can also do English interviews without problem.
That's because French and German are very close to English. They share the same lineage, whereas Korean does not.
Not entirely true. We share the same alphabet, but you're quoting 3 languages with different roots here. Regardless, it's true that the whole 'european' melting-pot of the past two milleniums has brought things together. Would have been better to compare French with Spanish and Italian though.
German and English are related but French isn't, it's a Romance language so it's related to Spanish, Italian and Romanian
ROmance language? What does that mean? We say Latin here, because you know, of Latin :D
On June 09 2013 15:23 samurai80 wrote: I think koreans being shy is a big factor in them not being good at english but they are still bad at academic english, if you check worlwide results for TOEFL I think they are last, just behind Japan iirc. Perhaps the fact that they are too shy to use the language makes it harder to remember it, even if it's written english. Obviously the fact that their own language is really different from english + their geographical location is a huge reason too.
Also I don't know about Korea but in Japan english teachers are usually really bad.
Ok these were not the results I saw. I should have precised it was like 6-7 years ago too. I don't remember precisely but at least it looks like Korea has improved a lot.
Lol dude that is so fail. The fact that you don't mention your source being so old... and yet you made an argument out of it.... rofl
Yep my bad. I actually realized it may be old data just after I wrote the post but I did not expect things to change that fast so I left my sentence at present tense. It was the same kind of pdf from ETS, that is for sure (but it was the older score systems, I remember Korea was like 470 or something while Japan 480) Still I wrote "iirc"...
On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote: honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
Sure bro easy to say watching from home and having more time to think about things, but put you on stage mic in hand and you'll probably fumble your words, pee in your pants and generally wilt on stage. Chobra is easily the best translator I've seen in the scene so far and has hosting skills to boot.
that was uncalled for man. he was simply commenting on the accuracy of chobra's translations relative to what he can do personally.
On June 09 2013 15:31 thefreed wrote: honestly I like Chobra but his Korean skills aren't that good. I think I'll do a much better job at translating, cause he leaves some stuffs out, or like doesn't translate it with the same kind of tone. If you know what I mean.
Sure bro easy to say watching from home and having more time to think about things, but put you on stage mic in hand and you'll probably fumble your words, pee in your pants and generally wilt on stage. Chobra is easily the best translator I've seen in the scene so far and has hosting skills to boot.
I think ur right about that. I would prolly get nervous if I was on stage, but I am just saying I could translate better then him cause it looks like I am better then him at Korean.
South Korea higher rated than France. But even if you have good English it is hard to communicate if you don't speak English ever. Also Progamers are known for their gaming and not for their school education, many of them drop out of school early to focus on Starcraft.
EPT
