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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 27 2013 02:45 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:43 Greendotz wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 Batssa wrote:
Good games. Stephano's got this shit. As per cheesing, the idea of a zerg "cheesing" is usually defined by the zerg player not having 12 bases and 90 drones. That's clearly an eco-cheese. Very abusive play A cheese is a play defined as: "Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies in large parts on lack of information and/or psychological impact on the opponent. Cheese build orders typically revolve around an early attack that, if undetected, is more difficult to defend than execute." http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/CheeseExamples of cheese from above article: + Show Spoiler +Cannon Rush (Protoss) - Building a Forge before the Gateway while placing one or more Pylons in the enemy mineral line, followed by Photon Cannons to stop mining and eliminate any army resistance that may have been established. There are also variations which place a proxy pylon in other locations inside the other player's base.
Proxy BBS- If scouted in time can be defended, but extremely hard to defend against if it comes at a surprise. No longer possible in SC2. The new proxy is SBB, usually against Zerg for early marine pressure, and combined with bunkers.
Proxy Gateway - building a gateway in the opponent's base and Chronoboosting out the first Zealot in order to kill the opposing workers.
Worker Rush - A worker rush is when you take all of your starting SCVs/Probes/Drones to the enemy base and attack everything there.
Aggressive Pool First - Where a Zerg player immediately creates a Spawning Pool at the beginning of the game and produces Zerglings to rush the enemy before they have any defences up.
Proxy Hatchery - A ramp assault using queens and Spine Crawlers can occur in ZvP when a Zerg places a hatchery in his opponent's expansion, and uses the creep spread to plant the spinecrawlers. The hatchery also allows faster unit attack after production, as well as queen production. A three base all-in isn't a cheese. It can be easily be scouted, it doesn't rely on a lack of information and it certainly doesn't rely on an early undetected attack. Look at the above examples. Zerg doesn't really have a reliable cheese against Terran, but the 11/11 or 12/13 whatever Terran does.
You should discuss this with one of these four guys:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Kwanro
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/July
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Life
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Symbol
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TLADT24920 Posts
On May 27 2013 02:46 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:45 BigFan wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 KelsierSC wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 KelsierSC wrote:On May 27 2013 02:35 KelsierSC wrote:On May 27 2013 02:32 KelsierSC wrote:01:00 - drone scout from stephano - forGG IS IN HIS HEAD!!!!! 02:00 - CC first from forGG again Stephano expands CC on the low ground Stephano harassing the SCV, forcing some repairs nice micro from both sides pool rax and gas from forGG 03:00 - so how bout that last game, huh, pretty bad 2 queens 04:00 - no gas from stephano looks like heavy queen play factory for forGG bunker at the front of the natural 2 gas from stephano now 2 more queens 05:00 - 3rd hatchery for stephano very early 2 more rax from forGG stephano scouts it instantly!! 2nd gas from forGG techlab from forGG 06:00 - Roach warren, double evo chamber hellion production begins range and armour upgrades 07:00 - Stim begins and starport production a few safety roaches for stephano 3rd gas for stephano some nice creep denial from forGG 08:00 - marine, marauder, hellion production continuing lair more drones from stephano supply blocks galore, many lulz are had 09:00 - more roaches medivacs being built roach speed combat shield 10:00 - forGG moves out towards the third Stephanos roaches are a bit out of position ENGAGEMENT MID MAP GOOD SURROUNDS FROM STEPHANO BUT SO MUCH BIO, A LOT OF ROACHES DIE 18 ROACHES ON THE WAY 11:00 - forGG has to pick and go +2 range begins for Stephano 3rd CC goes down double ebay goes down more drones tanks begin for forGG stephano spots a drop incoming 12:00 - Hydra production begins +2 armour for stephano 1/1 for forGG forGG sends a force to the third but stephano has split his army nicely 13:00 - 5 more rax!!!! tanks, medivacs and bio being produced for forGG the 3rd CC is about to land 14:00 - Hydra Speed 181-141 in favour of stephano LETS DO THIS!!!! Stephano has a flourishing 3 base economy armoury Big ROACH HYDRA ARMY MOVING IN!!!! 15:00 - the tanks are there and stephano backs off more roaches 4th base being taken STEPHANO SPLITS HIS ARMY AND ATTACKS the NATURAL AND THE 3rd!! 16:00 - PERFECTLY DONE Stephano draws units into the nat and attacks it and the third forGG gets obliterated 17:00 - STEPHANO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the third base falls to reinforcements, forGG gets cleaned up and so much roach hydra keeps coming forGG down to 2 CC and 20 SCV's THE ARMY IS CLEANED UP!! GGG Stephano 2 - 0 umm its Stephano 2-1  Thanks I fixed it now, I guess in my mind the second game didn't happen
lol no worries ^^
On May 27 2013 02:46 LimitSEA wrote:
Craaaaaaap. 4 am and I need sleep fo work but the finals are soon and oh god what do I do
stay up and go sleep deprived or call in sick
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On May 27 2013 02:46 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:46 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:44 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- ForGG might reach sniper levels of hatred if he takes out innovation at the global finals ;p. I think there are more popular players than Innovation at the Season Finals, to be honest. i dunno if innovation is really THAT popular, it's mostly the loud voices of hardcore fans I think
Definitely. And Tastless worshiping, sacrifying virgins etc
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On May 27 2013 02:46 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:44 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- ForGG might reach sniper levels of hatred if he takes out innovation at the global finals ;p. I think there are more popular players than Innovation at the Season Finals, to be honest.
Obviously, but all non-terrans hate him already. If he takes out the only terran hope we have then noone is left in ForGG's corner anymore  .
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On May 27 2013 02:47 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:45 TheDwf wrote:On May 27 2013 02:44 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- ForGG might reach sniper levels of hatred if he takes out innovation at the global finals ;p. Let this never happen. I think forgg is best of the world in tvt and would kill any korean terran. Other matchups he is mediocre pro (which still is really high level, but ofcourse less then his tvt and therefore he will not win big final).
I'd put Ryung, Polt, Flash, Innovation, sC and ty up against ForGG any day of the week.
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On May 27 2013 02:44 Canucklehead wrote:Forgg looking pretty mediocre, though that's really his normal play. Ruining the chance for an all kr finals.
So it would be better to watch a good Korean vs mediocre Korean, instead of watching good Korean vs good foreigner?
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TLADT24920 Posts
Come on ForGG! You can still win!
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On May 27 2013 02:45 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:43 Greendotz wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 Batssa wrote:
Good games. Stephano's got this shit. As per cheesing, the idea of a zerg "cheesing" is usually defined by the zerg player not having 12 bases and 90 drones. That's clearly an eco-cheese. Very abusive play A cheese is a play defined as: "Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies in large parts on lack of information and/or psychological impact on the opponent. Cheese build orders typically revolve around an early attack that, if undetected, is more difficult to defend than execute." http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/CheeseExamples of cheese from above article: + Show Spoiler +Cannon Rush (Protoss) - Building a Forge before the Gateway while placing one or more Pylons in the enemy mineral line, followed by Photon Cannons to stop mining and eliminate any army resistance that may have been established. There are also variations which place a proxy pylon in other locations inside the other player's base.
Proxy BBS- If scouted in time can be defended, but extremely hard to defend against if it comes at a surprise. No longer possible in SC2. The new proxy is SBB, usually against Zerg for early marine pressure, and combined with bunkers.
Proxy Gateway - building a gateway in the opponent's base and Chronoboosting out the first Zealot in order to kill the opposing workers.
Worker Rush - A worker rush is when you take all of your starting SCVs/Probes/Drones to the enemy base and attack everything there.
Aggressive Pool First - Where a Zerg player immediately creates a Spawning Pool at the beginning of the game and produces Zerglings to rush the enemy before they have any defences up.
Proxy Hatchery - A ramp assault using queens and Spine Crawlers can occur in ZvP when a Zerg places a hatchery in his opponent's expansion, and uses the creep spread to plant the spinecrawlers. The hatchery also allows faster unit attack after production, as well as queen production. A three base all-in isn't a cheese. It can be easily be scouted, it doesn't rely on a lack of information and it certainly doesn't rely on an early undetected attack. Look at the above examples. Zerg doesn't really have a reliable cheese against Terran, but the 11/11 or 12/13 whatever Terran does.
SC2 fans seem to have completely lost the concept of "timing attack". A 3 base 50 drone roach bane attack is not an "all-in" it is a timing attack. Yes it relies strongly on doing damage, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to transition out of.
Pretty much anything that isn't pure macro play people write off as cheeses.
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Why do they always say that? Neither ForGG or even MC has "fantastic" english. We europeans have pretty solid english. Koreans all have pretty broken english, if they even speak english.
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Stephano / ForGG / Stephano / ForGG / ForGG
is not a comeback series or "reverse all-kill"
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On May 27 2013 02:47 zanga wrote:I'm sorry to complain but to me this is a major downer in terms of studio setup. 10 people in the audience for what is basically a Code S final? Is this some kind of trolling/joke ? For instance: I'm pretty sure it could be 10x sicker with an arena by Dreamhack filled with an audience wishing to watch Mvp. The games are great, casting awesome and a good host - but everything else.... Anyone agreeing, or disagreeing? What do you think?
Its one thing traveling acros Europe for huge event like dreamhack (different games, few days and so on). Traveling across Europe for one match? Only hardcore fans and those close by would do that. Good call in my opinion.
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On May 27 2013 02:47 govie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:45 TheDwf wrote:On May 27 2013 02:44 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- ForGG might reach sniper levels of hatred if he takes out innovation at the global finals ;p. Let this never happen. I think forgg is best of the world in tvt and would kill any korean terran. Other matchups he is mediocre pro (which still is really high level, but ofcourse less then his tvt and therefore he will not win big final).
Hard to say if he's the best without seeing him play vs the big guns in Korea. Could easily see Flash, Gumibear, Taeja etc give him a run for his money!
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On May 27 2013 02:46 HonorZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- Yeah I don't know where all of that comes from. But to be honest, each player received very bad comments - like Mvp playing okish versus DIMAGA, I mean they maybe except to much or IDK
This is a LR thread, logic has abondoned this place. If someone makes one single mistake he's basically the worst player in existence according to many people here. If you don't take it seriously LR-threads are great entertainment between games.
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On May 27 2013 02:47 zanga wrote:I'm sorry to complain but to me this is a major downer in terms of studio setup. 10 people in the audience for what is basically a Code S final? Is this some kind of trolling/joke ? For instance: I'm pretty sure it could be 10x sicker with an arena by Dreamhack filled with an audience wishing to watch Mvp. The games are great, casting awesome and a good host - but everything else.... Anyone agreeing, or disagreeing? What do you think?
an arena like dreamhack is very expensive, and ESL had some financial problems in the past which they seem to have sorted out, because if this tournament would have been held last year, ESL would have fucked up the production and stuff because they didn't have the money.
But they did really well with the League of Legends deal with riot and of course got new sponsors for WCS and SC2.
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On May 27 2013 02:49 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:47 zanga wrote:I'm sorry to complain but to me this is a major downer in terms of studio setup. 10 people in the audience for what is basically a Code S final? Is this some kind of trolling/joke ? For instance: I'm pretty sure it could be 10x sicker with an arena by Dreamhack filled with an audience wishing to watch Mvp. The games are great, casting awesome and a good host - but everything else.... Anyone agreeing, or disagreeing? What do you think? Its one thing traveling acros Europe for huge event like dreamhack (different games, few days and so on). Traveling across Europe for one match? Only hardcore fans and those close by would do that. Good call in my opinion.
It does seem to work for Iron Squid though.
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On May 27 2013 02:48 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2013 02:47 govie wrote:On May 27 2013 02:45 TheDwf wrote:On May 27 2013 02:44 Derez wrote:On May 27 2013 02:43 Zealously wrote:On May 27 2013 02:41 broodmann wrote:On May 27 2013 02:39 Zealously wrote:
I won't bother, actually ForGG hasnt exactly been crushing his way to the semi finals He's looked decidedly sub-par at times, I know. It still doesn't justify random forum-goers calling him "bad", "unskilled" and whatnot. I can accept criticising his build orders or a specific part of his play, but if he was so bad he wouldn't be in the semifinals of WCS EU. I wish more people would understand that -.- ForGG might reach sniper levels of hatred if he takes out innovation at the global finals ;p. Let this never happen. I think forgg is best of the world in tvt and would kill any korean terran. Other matchups he is mediocre pro (which still is really high level, but ofcourse less then his tvt and therefore he will not win big final). I'd put Ryung, Polt, Flash, Innovation, sC and ty up against ForGG any day of the week.
I would favor ForGG plenty against Polt, he's stated utter confusion in the matchup. Aside from that I agree.
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okay forgg, we understand, you showed us that pure mmm is shit vs zerg, now how about incorporating more tech?
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Germany2065 Posts
Goooo Stephano - ZvT final against MVP please!
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On May 27 2013 02:47 zanga wrote:I'm sorry to complain but to me this is a major downer in terms of studio setup. 10 people in the audience for what is basically a Code S final? Is this some kind of trolling/joke ? For instance: I'm pretty sure it could be 10x sicker with an arena by Dreamhack filled with an audience wishing to watch Mvp. The games are great, casting awesome and a good host - but everything else.... Anyone agreeing, or disagreeing? What do you think?
I guess this is slightly off topic, but the GOM studio has been painfully empty as of late (unless they're showing WoT of course ¬_¬) This setup is fine for me. Of course a stadium Dreamhack-esque setup would be awesome, but this is fine. Also the barcraft roll-call gave a pretty good community feel.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Kr.png)
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