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On May 01 2013 03:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I dont know what is this guy "Titan" doing here as invited player,but that last engagement in the Thorzains 3rd was the most horrible I ve ever seen!!! After several EMPs on his army and the gau still there trying to kill Perfect Bio concave with 1k medivac support..
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... Russian WCS Champion who placed 13th-16th in the European finals. It's a good invite but I'm not sure of how much he has played lately. I guess not enough. :/
He played 750 ladder games this season on his main account alone, not counting customs and potential smurfs, normally that should be more than enough for a player of his potential, I don't know why he's not getting the hang of it yet, his decision making this series was simply abysmal.
Hopefully soon.
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On May 01 2013 02:59 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. Are you implying what we just saw was undefeatable? Any Protoss with competent decision-making would have been in an awesome position.
This game was not a Thorzain win but rather a Titan's loss.
Any more competent Protoss would never, ever engaged into that concave of Terran units.
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On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad...
If they are so shit, why didn't you qualify (did you even try?)?
I get it, it's OK to to criticise even if you're not top level, but some of these threads slowly turns towards cancer if one of the players does anything wrong. They aren't shit. They are mere mortals.
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On May 01 2013 02:59 freerolll wrote:
Get ready for the longest TvT series in starcraft history!
Error 404: the series does not include Goody.
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On May 01 2013 03:02 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:59 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. Are you implying what we just saw was undefeatable? Any Protoss with competent decision-making would have been in an awesome position. This game was not a Thorzain win but rather a Titan's loss. Any more competent Protoss would never, ever engaged into that concave of Terran units.
yes, that's exactly what I said
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On May 01 2013 02:58 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:57 StarVe wrote:
Anyway, I knew that Titan isn't that good at the moment, but I'm really quite disappointed by Thorzain, too. I remember the old days and I kind of feel sad. Yeah, this was not standard Thorzain at all. Titan I know took time off and was barely playing when HoTS came out (not sure how he ended up invited to Code S), but Thorzain's been practicing in Korea and should theoretically be improving not regressing.
Thorzain left Korea more than a month ago and, according to an interview before Dreamhack, he's been playing less lately due to him being busy with SAT's or something like that. He certainly looked out of shape both here and in Dreamhack, even in his usually very solid TvP.
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On May 01 2013 03:02 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I dont know what is this guy "Titan" doing here as invited player,but that last engagement in the Thorzains 3rd was the most horrible I ve ever seen!!! After several EMPs on his army and the gau still there trying to kill Perfect Bio concave with 1k medivac support..
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... Russian WCS Champion who placed 13th-16th in the European finals. It's a good invite but I'm not sure of how much he has played lately. I guess not enough. :/ He played 750 ladder games this season on his main account alone, not counting customs and potential smurfs, normally that should be more than enough for a player of his potential, I don't know why he's not getting the hang of it yet, his decision making this series was simply abysmal.
You can find a random ladder person with 1500 games, it still won't give him nerves of steel playing Thorzain with a WCS spot on the line.
Many people are saying "i haven't heard too much about him" which obviously translates into "he doesn't have that much high-play experience", which of course makes it natural for him to be nervous.
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On May 01 2013 03:01 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. because what won him the game wasn't sick micro or harass, but instead Titan engaging in the worse spot with like no AOE/surface area since no storm and colossi dying to vikings since no stalkers. Thorzain at that engagement just backed into a corner then stimmed and emped with no micro just hoping his medivacs heal through the damage which they did easily with like no AOE. Thorzain didn't play great at all it was Titan completely fucking up.
No, Titan had the right idea (harass his natural/poke the third). Instead, what happened was Thorzain built two rax on his natural which delayed the natural attack by a good 30s or so. Which basically means that his army had to stay a LOT longer and do a lot more damage than he was comfortable doing,
It wasn't about attacking into a choke. Most Protoss will tell you that a Terran in a choke is a fantastic engagement - storm and win.
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On May 01 2013 03:03 ne0lith wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:58 Swords wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 StarVe wrote:
Anyway, I knew that Titan isn't that good at the moment, but I'm really quite disappointed by Thorzain, too. I remember the old days and I kind of feel sad. Yeah, this was not standard Thorzain at all. Titan I know took time off and was barely playing when HoTS came out (not sure how he ended up invited to Code S), but Thorzain's been practicing in Korea and should theoretically be improving not regressing. Thorzain left Korea more than a month ago and, according to an interview before Dreamhack, he's been playing less lately due to him being busy with SAT's or something like that. He certainly looked out of shape both here and in Dreamhack, even in his usually very solid TvP.
Ah, I didn't know that. I miss old Thorzain, but he does need to think about his education obviously.
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On May 01 2013 03:02 Longtimer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... If they are so shit, why didn't you qualify (did you even try?)? I get it, it's OK to to criticise even if you're not top level, but some of these threads slowly turns towards cancer if one of the players does anything wrong. They aren't shit. They are mere mortals.
This isn't a question of being top level but justifying the invites.
If this carries on I might start thinking that all player slots should have gone to open qualifier.
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Gogo Ambitious Carpet Terran!
Strelok should be the one to take first place if the gods are just, after watching these last two series.
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On May 01 2013 03:02 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 02:59 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. Are you implying what we just saw was undefeatable? Any Protoss with competent decision-making would have been in an awesome position. This game was not a Thorzain win but rather a Titan's loss. Any more competent Protoss would never, ever engaged into that concave of Terran units.
Yeah... Except I remember a 6 base Naniwa being torn apart by a 3-4 base Thorzain. No one who is remotely sane and isn't either Rain or Parting willingly engages Thorzain in lategame TvP.
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On May 01 2013 03:04 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:01 oogieogie wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. because what won him the game wasn't sick micro or harass, but instead Titan engaging in the worse spot with like no AOE/surface area since no storm and colossi dying to vikings since no stalkers. Thorzain at that engagement just backed into a corner then stimmed and emped with no micro just hoping his medivacs heal through the damage which they did easily with like no AOE. Thorzain didn't play great at all it was Titan completely fucking up. No, Titan had the right idea (harass his natural/poke the third). Instead, what happened was Thorzain built two rax on his natural which delayed the natural attack by a good 30s or so. Which basically means that his army had to stay a LOT longer and do a lot more damage than he was comfortable doing,
It wasn't about attacking into a choke. Most Protoss will tell you that a Terran in a choke is a fantastic engagement - storm and win.
He had no storm and the colossi he had were dying to vikings which he had very little stalkers. I highly doubt a protoss wants to engage in a choke with no AOE while being zealot heavy vs a huge MMM ghost ball.
meh
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On May 01 2013 03:04 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:01 oogieogie wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. because what won him the game wasn't sick micro or harass, but instead Titan engaging in the worse spot with like no AOE/surface area since no storm and colossi dying to vikings since no stalkers. Thorzain at that engagement just backed into a corner then stimmed and emped with no micro just hoping his medivacs heal through the damage which they did easily with like no AOE. Thorzain didn't play great at all it was Titan completely fucking up. No, Titan had the right idea (harass his natural/poke the third). Instead, what happened was Thorzain built two rax on his natural which delayed the natural attack by a good 30s or so. Which basically means that his army had to stay a LOT longer and do a lot more damage than he was comfortable doing, It wasn't about attacking into a choke. Most Protoss will tell you that a Terran in a choke is a fantastic engagement - storm and win.
any tvp player, regardless of race, will tell you that defending a position is much easier than attacking one once templar/ghosts are in play
he clearly shouldn't have committed to an attack there, he probably knows it as well
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On May 01 2013 03:02 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I dont know what is this guy "Titan" doing here as invited player,but that last engagement in the Thorzains 3rd was the most horrible I ve ever seen!!! After several EMPs on his army and the gau still there trying to kill Perfect Bio concave with 1k medivac support..
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... Russian WCS Champion who placed 13th-16th in the European finals. It's a good invite but I'm not sure of how much he has played lately. I guess not enough. :/ He played 750 ladder games this season on his main account alone, not counting customs and potential smurfs, normally that should be more than enough for a player of his potential, I don't know why he's not getting the hang of it yet, his decision making this series was simply abysmal. Hopefully soon.
Perhaps his PvZ will show to be better. He and Livezerg practiced a lot together in MoW and probably does so nowadays too.
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On May 01 2013 03:04 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:02 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 03:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I dont know what is this guy "Titan" doing here as invited player,but that last engagement in the Thorzains 3rd was the most horrible I ve ever seen!!! After several EMPs on his army and the gau still there trying to kill Perfect Bio concave with 1k medivac support..
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... Russian WCS Champion who placed 13th-16th in the European finals. It's a good invite but I'm not sure of how much he has played lately. I guess not enough. :/ He played 750 ladder games this season on his main account alone, not counting customs and potential smurfs, normally that should be more than enough for a player of his potential, I don't know why he's not getting the hang of it yet, his decision making this series was simply abysmal. You can find a random ladder person with 1500 games, it still won't give him nerves of steel playing Thorzain with a WCS spot on the line. Many people are saying "i haven't heard too much about him" which obviously translates into "he doesn't have that much high-play experience", which of course makes it natural for him to be nervous.
Titan used to play a ton though in the heyday of WoL. He was capable of beating Stephano when Stephano was at his peak. He may not have attended many premier tournaments (since rox.kis doesn't send their players out that much), but he did lots of online tournaments, which is what WCS EU is right now.
That being said, those decisions were so weird I don't see how it could be anything other than nerves.
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On May 01 2013 03:05 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:02 Longtimer wrote:On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... If they are so shit, why didn't you qualify (did you even try?)? I get it, it's OK to to criticise even if you're not top level, but some of these threads slowly turns towards cancer if one of the players does anything wrong. They aren't shit. They are mere mortals. This isn't a question of being top level but justifying the invites. If this carries on I might start thinking that all player slots should have gone to open qualifier.
Of course all players lots should have gone to open qualifiers. I don't even see how that's questionable, they just needed to secure big names in order to promote it and the partners probably felt like they didn't have enough time to do the qualifiers correctly.
Rightfully so, since they partly managed to screw up even the smaller scale ones already.
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On May 01 2013 03:03 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:02 Roman666 wrote:On May 01 2013 02:59 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. Are you implying what we just saw was undefeatable? Any Protoss with competent decision-making would have been in an awesome position. This game was not a Thorzain win but rather a Titan's loss. Any more competent Protoss would never, ever engaged into that concave of Terran units. yes, that's exactly what I said
And I had your back!
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So long sb46 from Strelok...
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On May 01 2013 03:04 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:02 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 03:00 AlternativeEgo wrote:On May 01 2013 02:56 Dvriel wrote:
I dont know what is this guy "Titan" doing here as invited player,but that last engagement in the Thorzains 3rd was the most horrible I ve ever seen!!! After several EMPs on his army and the gau still there trying to kill Perfect Bio concave with 1k medivac support..
I understand this is WCS as Strelok said and they are all nervous,but man...You are progamer and have been it for what??? 5 years? This make our ladder seem so bad... Russian WCS Champion who placed 13th-16th in the European finals. It's a good invite but I'm not sure of how much he has played lately. I guess not enough. :/ He played 750 ladder games this season on his main account alone, not counting customs and potential smurfs, normally that should be more than enough for a player of his potential, I don't know why he's not getting the hang of it yet, his decision making this series was simply abysmal. You can find a random ladder person with 1500 games, it still won't give him nerves of steel playing Thorzain with a WCS spot on the line. Many people are saying "i haven't heard too much about him" which obviously translates into "he doesn't have that much high-play experience", which of course makes it natural for him to be nervous.
Which is obviously complete bullshit because he has a lot of experience and is familiar with high-pressure situations. Yes, maybe he's nervous, but not more than Thorzain, that's for sure. Maybe something is bothering him, but he's not more nervous by nature.
If you haven't heard much of him, it's not his fault, it's yours.
On May 01 2013 03:08 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 03:03 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 03:02 Roman666 wrote:On May 01 2013 02:59 StarVe wrote:On May 01 2013 02:57 Evangelist wrote:
Thorzain is essentially undefeatable in late game TvP. Little things like the double barracks walloff on the ramp up to the natural, burning 300m to delay a zealot push into his nat by a good 30s. Brilliant stuff that no one comments on because it's not micro, just strategic. Are you implying what we just saw was undefeatable? Any Protoss with competent decision-making would have been in an awesome position. This game was not a Thorzain win but rather a Titan's loss. Any more competent Protoss would never, ever engaged into that concave of Terran units. yes, that's exactly what I said And I had your back!
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EPT
