Unfortunately, There will be no more KPOP in the OPs for the time being because there is a bug in the website where spoilered videos still loads them so the thread gets slower when opening
I mean I could remake the poll with like 30 options but I figured i'd make it the players who came out for both teams so far + a couple that could, and I feel like nestea probably won't play.
I think IM is going to take it 4-2. I wish I could watch. I hate how the championship is on Monday at 4 in the morning for me (and I onlly get up at that time for DRG)
On February 25 2013 03:48 Boanerges wrote: Eve... are you serious XD
I voted for her..... She probably does a great job of boosting team morale and intimidating the opposing team. She has all the intangibles of a great teammate. She may not get it done in the booth, but that doesn't matter. The MVP isn't always the player/team that wins the most.
On February 25 2013 03:50 TommyP wrote: I voted for her..... She probably does a great job of boosting team morale and intimidating the opposing team. She may not get it done in the booth, but that doesn't matter.
Sir. You just made my day. Might as well cite Nada's body as another dominating factor.
Let's go Mvp! He didn't need to come out against the other teams, and it doesn't look like he'll need to come out against AZUBU. Still, I want to see some more Mvp plays!
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
I agree but Mvp needs a comeback. My <3 says LGIM.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
I thought RagnaroK was supposed to be the best zerg in HoTS and TT1 said Ruin was the top ranked protoss on the ladder
On February 23 2013 17:00 ROOTT1 wrote: that toss was nasty as fuck 0.0, very nice play. apparently hes the highest ranked protoss on hots atm
It's hard to predict what LG-IM's lineup will be. I think the only two guaranteed are Ragnarok and Seed. MC himself said that he lacks a lot of experience in HotS. Ruin is still very untested, Byul is a maybe. I'm not sure how the rest on their roster are doing at hots.
i think this is LG-IM's match to lose, MC is doing so well in HoTS, Ragnarok nearly got an all-kill, Byul was really good vs. resurgent jjakjji, I just like LG-IM's top-to-bottom lineup more than Azubu's even with Violet.
on the other hand I thought startale was going to beat azubu and i bet against NSH when they beat MVP so who knows.
On February 25 2013 09:16 suicideyear wrote: 4 am ;_;
i think this is LG-IM's match to lose, MC is doing so well in HoTS, Ragnarok nearly got an all-kill, Byul was really good vs. resurgent jjakjji, I just like LG-IM's top-to-bottom lineup more than Azubu's even with Violet.
on the other hand I thought startale was going to beat azubu and i bet against NSH when they beat MVP so who knows.
On player quality and depth every game is LG-IM's to lose. Unfortunately they manage to lose.
I think the real issue for Azubu is that they won't / can't field their best player in Symbol because he'd still be grinding WoL for his semi final. Like maybe they can throw him out for a ZvZ anyway, but in a Bo7 I'd think they shouldn't.
Anyway, hoping LG-IM open the thing with MVP. He always does a bit better with less pressure. But really I'm hoping we get to see some Seed =D
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
I thought RagnaroK was supposed to be the best zerg in HoTS and TT1 said Ruin was the top ranked protoss on the ladder
IM has the greater depth in their roster, but AZUBU has some powerful players in the form of viOLet, SuperNova and potentially Symbol. Symbol has a chance of coming out because HotS ZvZ isn't too different from WoL, and Symbol should be grinding out ZvZs hard.
On February 25 2013 09:42 Havik_ wrote: Eve for MVP? Lmao. You trolls. Mvp for MVP obviously. LG-IM is too stacked of a team. Anyone on LG-IM could crush Violet in a Bo1.
Some of us believe in underdog stories from rags to riches. Think Scarlett. Eve ftw
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Genius, Sleep, San, and Supernova are all in HotS GM. Violet might be too on a barcode.
I'd like to see Ruin play some more and take a couple of games, but I'm also feeling Azubu should win this.
I'm kinda doubtful Eve will play. I still want to see Sleep in the booth.
On February 25 2013 09:42 Havik_ wrote: Eve for MVP? Lmao. You trolls. Mvp for MVP obviously. LG-IM is too stacked of a team. Anyone on LG-IM could crush Violet in a Bo1.
You can never underestimate the passion of fanboys and white knights
On February 25 2013 09:42 Havik_ wrote: Eve for MVP? Lmao. You trolls. Mvp for MVP obviously. LG-IM is too stacked of a team. Anyone on LG-IM could crush Violet in a Bo1.
Some of us believe in underdog stories from rags to riches. Think Scarlett. Eve ftw
The best underdogs are the ones that are unexpected. Not the ones that people harp on about.
And what are we talking about? MVP will obviously be dreamertt or something random like that.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Genius, Sleep, San, and Supernova are all in HotS GM. Violet might be too on a barcode.
I'd like to see Ruin play some more and take a couple of games, but I'm also feeling Azubu should win this.
I'm kinda doubtful Eve will play. I still want to see Sleep in the booth.
On February 25 2013 09:42 Havik_ wrote: Eve for MVP? Lmao. You trolls. Mvp for MVP obviously. LG-IM is too stacked of a team. Anyone on LG-IM could crush Violet in a Bo1.
You can never underestimate the passion of fanboys and white knights
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Confirmed. LG-IM wins the GSTL Hots preseason tournament.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
I thought RagnaroK was supposed to be the best zerg in HoTS and TT1 said Ruin was the top ranked protoss on the ladder
On February 23 2013 17:00 ROOTT1 wrote: that toss was nasty as fuck 0.0, very nice play. apparently hes the highest ranked protoss on hots atm
after Ruin vs MMA
DRG was as high as rank 6 when he was streaming the other day. Now that he hasn't played for a couple of days, he's dropped a little, but of all the Zergs at the top, he probably has the best win rate. Life has an insane win rate, but he doesn't play a lot of HotS so is only ranked somewhere in the middle.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Did you say this because you want IM to win?
Supernova played awful against JKS yeterday (yes just one game though). I can't remember San playing HotS yet so I cant comment on that, and viOlet beat Leenock because he couldnt stop a ling runby, 2 unaccomplished players that made a ton of stupid mistakes, and then Tear (that was a good game)
Looking at the Ladder, the best zergs are DRG (by far the best win percentage of the three, however my math skills are on the level of Wolf's so you might want to check that), Ragnarok and some guy named NAKSEO MVP Monster.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Did you say this because you want IM to win?
Supernova played awful against JKS yeterday. I can't remember San playing HotS yet so I cant comment on that, and viOlet beat Leenock because he couldnt stop a ling runby, 2 unaccomplished players that made a ton of stupid mistakes, and then Tear (that was a good game)
Looking at the Ladder, the best zergs are DRG, Ragnarok and some guy named NAKSEO.
NAKSEO is Monster I believe. let me check up on that
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Did you say this because you want IM to win?
Supernova played awful against JKS yeterday. I can't remember San playing HotS yet so I cant comment on that, and viOlet beat Leenock because he couldnt stop a ling runby, 2 unaccomplished players that made a ton of stupid mistakes, and then Tear (that was a good game)
Looking at the Ladder, the best zergs are DRG, Ragnarok and some guy named NAKSEO.
NAKSEO is Monster I believe. let me check up on that
San traditionally fails really hard, then shows great play, then fails really hard. Since he qualified for IPL, then lost badly in Ro8, he's gonna win at least one game if he plays now.
Geez, there's a game just about every night and when I finally want to watch, I have school the next day. Well, my prediction goes to Azubu! But I'd like a 4-3 game with all the big names playing. And of course, Eve better be the MVP.
Inside the spoiler is a preview to what one of the OPs will look like. I was wondering what font for the section headers ("Players" in this case) matches up the best with the VS Banners (which look great btw). I also included the features that MCXD suggested like pictures linking to TLPD and VS linking to Aligulac predictions if you want to just click around.
These are the premade header titles that I have available atm. I know some of them don't go together at all but I figured I'd list them + Show Spoiler [Trajan Pro Bolt, 46pt] +
The current font in the preview is the Orbitron Black font but it was selected to match up with the old font. Is there another one that looks better to you guys?
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Untill this team league, LG-IM was my least favorite team, but right now I really like them. But I also really like AZUBU, they have some of my favorite players like San, Genius and more. So I cant really decide, booth heart and brain are split T_T
There's a bug with the website where videos load even if you spoiler them so if i embed 4-5 videos into the OP it will make some peoples computers lag when they load the page, otherwise I would.
On February 25 2013 18:05 Dodgin wrote: There's a bug with the website where videos load even if you spoiler them so if i embed 4-5 videos into the OP it will make some peoples computers lag when they load the page, otherwise I would.
I think u could put those songs title instead, people could search it on utube later :D
Fall Out Boy's new song in the background. :D Like it.
And daaannnngg LG-IM's freakishly strong. I mean they already were, but with Squirtle they could play nothing but Protoss and still have a sick lineup, especially after Ruin's performance the other day.
When I see TOP I can't help but think of fruitdealer and how TOP might actually have been the first GSL champion if it weren't for the ultra splash bug ;p
On February 25 2013 18:25 Dodgin wrote: Mvp always wears the white jersey while everyone else is using the black, but it seems seed is copying him today.
On February 25 2013 18:25 Dodgin wrote: Mvp always wears the white jersey while everyone else is using the black, but it seems seed is copying him today.
On February 25 2013 18:26 ZenithM wrote: Lool. Zergs around the world would have us think that they can't win a single game in HotS, yet here we are, Z all kills and ZvZ starters.
Man you'd think the same thing in WoL when MVP won during the ultimate prime time of zerg dominance (aka the time when zerg was the most overpowered). Then making another finals. That proves that terran was fine in tvz in wol right?
I know Squirtle can't play today because he wasn't on the roster last week when the preseason started, but not even on the bench? He could have totally recommended some gosu builds to the Protoss players...
On February 25 2013 18:31 Elite_ wrote: I know Squirtle can't play today because he wasn't on the roster last week when the preseason started, but not even on the bench? He could have totally recommended some gosu builds to the Protoss players...
Some other IM guys like Losira and Happy aren't on the bench either, there isn't enough room for the entire team. They have like 15 or 16 players.
On February 25 2013 18:31 Shellshock1122 wrote: I honestly don't understand how Ryung doesnt have 10k follower with profound tweets like: + Show Spoiler +
On February 25 2013 18:31 Shellshock1122 wrote: I honestly don't understand how Ryung doesnt have 10k follower with profound tweets like: + Show Spoiler +
Very cute push by ragnarok, had Violet opted to go Mutas Rag would have had 3 queens with transfuse to do damage to them while the roaches would have killed his base.
On February 25 2013 18:31 Shellshock1122 wrote: I honestly don't understand how Ryung doesnt have 10k follower with profound tweets like: + Show Spoiler +
On February 25 2013 18:47 Dodgin wrote: Tag eve in!
Actually I wonder why chat isn't allowed as a mind game tactic; Eve could easily hit on a few of these guys and get some wins
Haha, she could do it, all you get is a penalty point iirc. Get enough of those, and you get DQed or something else, but just once? She totally could do it.
On February 25 2013 19:06 Conquest101 wrote: Hmm, is anyone else unable to full screen the player with HQ/EHQ quality? I can fullscreen on SQ but not the other 2 for some reason.
On February 25 2013 19:06 Conquest101 wrote: Hmm, is anyone else unable to full screen the player with HQ/EHQ quality? I can fullscreen on SQ but not the other 2 for some reason.
I don't want to hear Zergs complaining about Hydralisks anymore. This game should confirm how much of a difference they make even though people who play in the beta should already know that.
On February 25 2013 19:08 morlakaix wrote: toss player here, havent watched much of hots, but is it viable to go bio in tvz now or is ganzi experimenting
This unit composition works very well vs Zerg. What Ganzi needs is more mines.
Using heavy tanks is hard to do now because of how hard the Viper counters it.
On February 25 2013 19:08 morlakaix wrote: toss player here, havent watched much of hots, but is it viable to go bio in tvz now or is ganzi experimenting
This unit composition works very well vs Zerg. What Ganzi needs is more mines.
Using heavy tanks is hard to do now because of how hard the Viper counters it.
Ahh ok, that's actually good to hear, I like that the new units are forcing new "standards" tired of seeing the same 1/1 marine tank pushes s_s
On February 25 2013 19:08 morlakaix wrote: toss player here, havent watched much of hots, but is it viable to go bio in tvz now or is ganzi experimenting
This unit composition works very well vs Zerg. What Ganzi needs is more mines.
Using heavy tanks is hard to do now because of how hard the Viper counters it.
Eh tanks aren't as good late game, but mid game their still very powerful. Even in WoL you didn't really see tanks late game though anyway.
But yeah bio + widow mine is really strong ^^. Roach/hydra is ok but I personally hate it.
See this is when this comp crushes Roach Hydralisk. The Widow Mines just do such insane splash damage when you have a lot of them and are loads cheaper than Siege Tanks.
At this point when upgrades kick in and the Widow Mine count gets high you have to start switching either into Swarm Hosts or Hive units. Pure Roach/Hydralisk starts to lose its cost effectiveness at higher upgrade levels.
Roach/hydra seems to get weaker and weaker the longer the game goes on vs that unit comp of Terran. At that point it really seemed like Ragnarok needed ultras.
On February 25 2013 19:11 Vesky wrote: So much for that all kill.
Really entertaining game, loved those mines.
Yeah. And this roach/hydra play vs bio is just such a beatiful matchup! Seems like finally Z and T can push each other without allinning in the midgame
ragnarok needed a quicker 3/3 with some AOE against the bio (either infestors or ultras) - he had the vipers but the 3/3 bio army with a high medivac count with the widow mines make it difficult to fight the bio head on
I don't think the mines are what won if for him, I think it was the medivacs. i feel like ragnarok should have focused the medivacs instead of attacking the army for some of the engagements.
On February 25 2013 19:13 Tachion wrote: Roach/hydra seems to get weaker and weaker the longer the game goes on vs that unit comp of Terran. At that point it really seemed like Ragnarok needed ultras.
Conversely the good thing about the comp Ganzi went for is that it's probably the best set up you can possibly have for megaultralisks.
With Ragnarok going Viper I think he should have tried yank some medivacs back into the hydras so Ganzi lost some of his staying power. The big benefit of tankless play is that Vipers don't fuck you =p
On February 25 2013 19:12 Dodgin wrote: I don't get how ganzi just suddenly started winning fights, especially when the vipers came out.
The Widow Mine count actually got higher. He was losing before because he didn't have the mine count to really make that bio army cost effective/
the mine didn't do shit in that engagement where Ganzi turned/determine the battle. He simply reached a medivac breaking point where it was healing his units very fast and takes too long for zerg to break it down.
As zerg you need aoe or tech up to t3 before medivacs get too high
On February 25 2013 19:12 Dodgin wrote: I don't get how ganzi just suddenly started winning fights, especially when the vipers came out.
The Widow Mine count actually got higher. He was losing before because he didn't have the mine count to really make that bio army cost effective/
the mine didn't do shit in that engagement where Ganzi turned/determine the battle. He simply reached a medivac breaking point where it was healing his units very fast and takes too long for zerg to break it down.
As zerg you need aoe or tech up to t3 before medivacs get too high
Yes landing splash damage on all of the squishy Hydralisks getting them to low health had nothing to do with it.
On February 25 2013 19:13 Alak wrote: Is the gas usage such that the zerg has to choose between vipers and infestors? It seems like a few infestors might've been useful there.
Entertaining game though!
Fairly significant damage reduction against marauders, and there wasn't enough gas to produce infestor hydra roach viper.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
On February 25 2013 19:12 Dodgin wrote: I don't get how ganzi just suddenly started winning fights, especially when the vipers came out.
The Widow Mine count actually got higher. He was losing before because he didn't have the mine count to really make that bio army cost effective/
the mine didn't do shit in that engagement where Ganzi turned/determine the battle. He simply reached a medivac breaking point where it was healing his units very fast and takes too long for zerg to break it down.
As zerg you need aoe or tech up to t3 before medivacs get too high
Yes landing splash damage on all of the squishy Hydralisks getting them to low health had nothing to do with it.
Rag was already dead by that point. When he lost his army after screwing up 3 blinding cloud, that was when game is over.
You can't beat terran with that many medivacs without some sort of aoe/burst
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
with widow mine burrow speed, the fast bio widow mine push don't let you reach them to kill the widow mines
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Ah yes your right he should have focused the widow mines down with hydras and kept the roaches in back so that they dont' trigger the mines all while the MMM ball is firing as well.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Widow Mines have low target priority. How is he supposed to target fire all those mines while he's being attacked with a bio army?
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
You mean like how marines can kill creep tumors (except if the zerg army bounces in and out killing them to stop that from happening? Ganzi used them in the same way, except that mines do huge damage and tumors don't )
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Don't let common sense get in the way of Terran balance whining.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
If you put your hydras in front to snipe mines, stimmed bio absolutely annihilates this most expensive part of your army.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
with widow mine burrow speed, the fast bio widow mine push don't let you reach them to kill the widow mines
If you can't reach them to attack them (that means they're not in your range) then they can't hit you either.
He cloud have clouded the ramp and then focused the mines at the end, not that the mines did anything, he just didn't use cloud and lost all his units to bio.
On February 25 2013 19:17 DifuntO wrote: Mines might be a better choice against roach-hydra-viper than tanks because you don't need vikings and costs less.
and Blinding Cloud makes Siege Tanks completely useless until you unsiege them and move them out of the cloud...
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Widow Mines have low target priority. How is he supposed to target fire all those mines while he's being attacked with a bio army?
actually widow mine have the same priority once they are burrowed. Infestors are decent for dealing with them as well
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Ah yes your right he should have focused the widow mines down with hydras and kept the roaches in back so that they dont' trigger the mines all while the MMM ball is firing as well.
Thanks for writing down my thoughts <3. People always talk like zergs are bad if they get hit by widow mines but at some point you have to engage and you can't bait or focus widow mines when they are with a bio army.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Widow Mines have low target priority. How is he supposed to target fire all those mines while he's being attacked with a bio army?
By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
On February 25 2013 19:13 Alak wrote: Is the gas usage such that the zerg has to choose between vipers and infestors? It seems like a few infestors might've been useful there.
Entertaining game though!
Fairly significant damage reduction against marauders, and there wasn't enough gas to produce infestor hydra roach viper.
That's what I thought. The thought was that the fungal damage is just a bonus, the real thing would be to fungal units under a blinding cloud, giving the hydras some breathing room to go for the mines/medivacs. It's all just theory though, so it might not be worth it and as you say, not enough gas.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
with widow mine burrow speed, the fast bio widow mine push don't let you reach them to kill the widow mines
If you can't reach them to attack them (that means they're not in your range) then they can't hit you either.
He cloud have clouded the ramp and then focused the mines at the end, not that the mines did anything, he just didn't use cloud and lost all his units to bio.
He did use cloud earlier. The reason he didn't use it at the very end is because he didn't have the energy for it, which is why he almost ate his hatchery to death. Outside of the situation you're talking about, it's hard to target fire widow mines cost efficiently if you have MMM already attacking your hydras, which are fragile units to begin with.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Widow Mines have low target priority. How is he supposed to target fire all those mines while he's being attacked with a bio army?
gosh, micro. who'd've thought!
So cynical, lol. Zergs ain't used to microing things, give them some time!
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Ah yes your right he should have focused the widow mines down with hydras and kept the roaches in back so that they dont' trigger the mines all while the MMM ball is firing as well.
Thanks for writing down my thoughts <3. People always talk like zergs are bad if they get hit by widow mines but at some point you have to engage and you can't bait or focus widow mines when they are with a bio army.
cast fungal, kill widow mines. Fyi you can also abduct widow mines, you could also charge in 1-2 overlords before sending your lings in. Remember widow mines also friendly fires, so if you get there fast enough on creep it can go with your favor
Over time, widow mine usage like Ganzi's will become less effective as zergs grow in skill against the unit. BW protoss could defensively micro against spider mines. You even saw focus firing against spider mines after they popped and moved to explode which is considerably harder than targeting widow mines.
On February 25 2013 19:13 sitromit wrote: Finally someone shows a glimpse of how Widow Mines can be abused. Now until someone takes out an entire tier 3 army by rushing in with 30 mines.
Abused? Ragnarok could have killed them as hydras outrange all of them.
Widow Mines have low target priority. How is he supposed to target fire all those mines while he's being attacked with a bio army?
gosh, micro. who'd've thought!
So cynical, lol. Zergs ain't used to microing things, give them some time!
i want to force you two to play 100 hots games as zerg vs t and p then come back
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Yes. I think it will come down to how many mines the zerg eats. Of course, avoiding them 100% is impossible. But eating 100% of them will also make you lose. As for what percentage, it will depend on your comp and spread.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
What is their speed and supply cost?
2 supply, 2.81 movespeed. Burrow takes 3 seconds, normally, but is reduced to 1 with a 150/150 upgrade.
are people actually discussing that game? :D it was speedless roach vs mass m/m/m, then with hydras added, following up with vipers vs 0 tanks in the end. Meanwhile ganzi just massing m/m/m + well, mines.
was just sillyness allover, wouldn't really worry about it
On February 25 2013 19:24 iky43210 wrote: also nobody builds 20-30 widow mines on ladder. your army would be tiny and get obliterated by any late game comp
not if the 20-30 widow mines obliterate their army!
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without it.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in mines and instakill units
On February 25 2013 19:24 iky43210 wrote: also nobody builds 20-30 widow mines on ladder. your army would be tiny and get obliterated by any late game comp
not if the 20-30 widow mines obliterate their army!
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Oh then what's left for Terran in HotS ? Could they revert back old Widow mine ? lol
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
What is their speed and supply cost?
2 supply, 2.81 movespeed. Burrow takes 3 seconds, normally, but is reduced to 1 with a 150/150 upgrade.
On February 25 2013 19:24 iky43210 wrote: also nobody builds 20-30 widow mines on ladder. your army would be tiny and get obliterated by any late game comp
I just watched a TvT game on thorzain stream and he had around 15 mines. It's basically another skyterran deathball unit composition
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
No, they are not worthless. Mines are not for attacking an army upfront like marines/marauders are. They are mines. If they can be used like what sitromit wrote, that just doesn´t fit at all.
If you want to kill Tempest you need vikings, like in WoL, so what´s the problem?
On February 25 2013 19:24 iky43210 wrote: also nobody builds 20-30 widow mines on ladder. your army would be tiny and get obliterated by any late game comp
I watched a Terran beat DRG turtling all game with 20 Widow Mines and Tanks. You'd be surprised. We'll see this in the GSL, just wait.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
No, they are not worthless. Mines are not for attacking an army upfront like marines/marauders are. They are mines. If they can be used like what sitromit wrote, that just doesn´t fit at all.
Without that utility the mines will never kill anything from a smart player. They won't even slow the other guy down as you can't get enough to make it hard to get through a minefield without making your army too small.
Anyways I don't really want to argue in here, I'd rather just watch the games.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
No, they are not worthless. Mines are not for attacking an army upfront like marines/marauders are. They are mines. If they can be used like what sitromit wrote, that just doesn´t fit at all.
Without that utility the mines will never kill anything from a smart player. They won't even slow the other guy down as you can't get enough to make it hard to get through a minefield without making your army too small.
Anyways I don't really want to argue in here, I'd rather just watch the games.
That´s true for all units. All smart players need to adjust their game WRT the enemy units/builds. Like I said, these are mines and not instakill attack units. I don´t think you´re really disagreeing with me here.
And like I said, if you want to kill Tempest(s), a terran needs vikings, like in WoL. A Tempest is a pretty weak unit if not massed or supported by ground.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
No, they are not worthless. Mines are not for attacking an army upfront like marines/marauders are. They are mines. If they can be used like what sitromit wrote, that just doesn´t fit at all.
Without that utility the mines will never kill anything from a smart player. They won't even slow the other guy down as you can't get enough to make it hard to get through a minefield without making your army too small.
Anyways I don't really want to argue in here, I'd rather just watch the games.
That´s true for all units. All smart players need to adjust their game WRT the enemy units/builds. Like I said, these are mines and not instakill attack units. I don´t think you´re really disagreeing with me here.
And like I said, if you want to kill Tempest(s), a terran needs vikings, like in WoL. A Tempest is a pretty weak unit if not massed or supported by ground.
Vikings alone do not actually beat tempests, even with good upgrades. They trade horribly as every time you move back or forward you get shot, you basically have to fully commit with all your vikings in one go and you'll lose the majority of them.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
The widow play near the end there was cute from both sides. GanZi scanned so that the mines could kill the observer, but First had suicided a couple probes in to eat the shots.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
Time Warp and Photon Overcharge made a pretty big impact as well.
But yea, Widow Mines are not useful vs Protoss in the late game, bio play is roughly unchanged in the matchup outside of the Medivac Afterburners which obviously make a big impact.
Ganzi didnt get ghost tech or viking tech, it was a bit... confusing. First did well but I can't help but think the lack of tech was Ganzi's mistake a lot more then First playing well.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Vindicare605 wrote: God Time Warp and Storm is so brutal to Terran bio I can't believe Protoss players actually complain about how not useful Time Warp is.
How does the time warp slow calculate? Is it before stim or after?
Halves after all other speed modifiers
Unless you're a queen on creep, for some reason.
That's a bug, It's been reported by a lot of people hopefully it'll be fixed before the expansion goes live.
On February 25 2013 19:35 AlternativeEgo wrote: Wait, somethings seems to be wrong here. Why am I watching Ganzi vs Ragnarok? o.O
f5?
Did that after I got inside from being out with the dog after the first game. A second refresh did the trick though. Was a little confusing to read the LR.
On February 25 2013 19:21 sitromit wrote: By the way, I'm not theorycrafting about using 20-30 mines to blow up an entire army. People are actually doing this on the ladder. With Drilling Claws, they can run straight into the army, burrow them instantly, and they all fire. They do enough single target damage to one-shot most units, so with smart fire and the splash on top, they one shot an army.
Looks like Blizzard needs to remove that upgrade then. It´s about as silly and counter-productive for the game as Khaydarin Amulet was. The widow mine is fine without out.
Warp in units and storm everything = Move in units and instakill them.
Without the upgrade it basically makes the mines worthless against toss as against skytoss the mines are one of the only counters you can actually use for tempests.
Also I'm not going to hold out hope for mech today. I really want to see it, but I feel Blizzard may have to patch the game at release if they want people to use it as currently pros don't seem to like it.
No, they are not worthless. Mines are not for attacking an army upfront like marines/marauders are. They are mines. If they can be used like what sitromit wrote, that just doesn´t fit at all.
Without that utility the mines will never kill anything from a smart player. They won't even slow the other guy down as you can't get enough to make it hard to get through a minefield without making your army too small.
Anyways I don't really want to argue in here, I'd rather just watch the games.
That´s true for all units. All smart players need to adjust their game WRT the enemy units/builds. Like I said, these are mines and not instakill attack units. I don´t think you´re really disagreeing with me here.
And like I said, if you want to kill Tempest(s), a terran needs vikings, like in WoL. A Tempest is a pretty weak unit if not massed or supported by ground.
Vikings alone do not actually beat tempests, even with good upgrades. They trade horribly as every time you move back or forward you get shot, you basically have to fully commit with all your vikings in one go and you'll lose the majority of them.
Then you need to stop just A-moving your vikings and bring some finese to the game. Like you said, a smart player just doesn´t do that. Tempests alone are no danger for a terran at all. Only if they are supported by ground units.
I don´t get your whole argument, really. Using a widow mine against a tempest, are you actually serious?
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Well I was just throwing it out as a possibility to add in to the standard MMMGV composition vs Protoss.
Outside of more possible Raven usage there really isn't another unit in the Terran arsenal that adds anything of real value to the bio playstyle in the late game so it's going to continue to look a lot like WoL TvP.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them.
I would join you in a heartbeat. Quick, someone introduce Rocky Horror to the proteams! I want them to dream Meatloaf and breathe Tim Curry!
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Well I was just throwing it out as a possibility to add in to the standard MMMGV composition vs Protoss.
Outside of more possible Raven usage there really isn't another unit in the Terran arsenal that adds anything of real value to the bio playstyle in the late game so it's going to continue to look a lot like WoL TvP.
you actually add ravens to your composition in late game in TvP when they add tempests to their army composition
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them.
I would join you in a heartbeat. Quick, someone introduce Rocky Horror to the proteams! I want them to dream Meatloaf and breathe Tim Curry!
I want Gom to put on Rocky Horror as a stage show. Khaldor will be Rocky. Artosis will be Dr Frank-N-Furter
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
Yeah, I agree. Tentatively there appears to be a lot more room for different kinds of controlling space in the late game, and every race seems to have more options in every phase of the game overall.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them.
I would join you in a heartbeat. Quick, someone introduce Rocky Horror to the proteams! I want them to dream Meatloaf and breathe Tim Curry!
I want Gom to put on Rocky Horror as a stage show. Khaldor will be Rocky. Artosis will be Dr Frank-N-Furter
On February 25 2013 19:47 Herect wrote: I don't think it will be like Broodwar, since SC vanilla is so much worst than its expansion, but i think HotS will be a lot better than WoL.
No turtle Zergs, less abusable composition and more micro intensive units make it better alone.
I hope it will not be like Broodwar... WoL was already more fun to play!
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
It seems like they are already in nonexistence, I'm not seeing them be used in GSTL.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
No worries. I agree that like many other HOTS innovations time warp still lacks a bit of that pelvic thrust that really drives you insane...
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
Yeah, I agree. Tentatively there appears to be a lot more room for different kinds of controlling space in the late game, and every race seems to have more options in every phase of the game overall.
Which is why it should be better. Not including another Queen range patch of course lol.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. it is difficult to get there of course.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote: The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left.
That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ...
Worlds of difference...
This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll.
If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them.
I would join you in a heartbeat. Quick, someone introduce Rocky Horror to the proteams! I want them to dream Meatloaf and breathe Tim Curry!
I want Gom to put on Rocky Horror as a stage show. Khaldor will be Rocky. Artosis will be Dr Frank-N-Furter
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
it does now, but I think as the metagame and maps develop to accommodate it better I think it'll clean up nicely. But this is just speculation from both of us, neither of us really know we can just guess.
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
Never said they weren't, just korean terrans seem to be reluctant to get away from their Bio play, at least from what i've seen, but that's limited sample size i guess
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue.
Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
it does now, but I think as the metagame and maps develop to accommodate it better I think it'll clean up nicely. But this is just speculation from both of us, neither of us really know we can just guess.
True. I like the concept of punishing turtling but it's waaaay too strong right now. And I feel like it's a unit that can only be too strong or completely useless.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least.
4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom.
I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least.
4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom.
I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker.
It was rarely decided by micro really. It was decided by who had the better composition. One more stalker for either side won the game. Right now there's tons of early/midgame options for aggressive/defensive strats and games can go back and forth. Decisionmaking is important, building good compositions, etc. PvP went from being an extremely shallow matchup to one that rewards smart play. It got more skill oriented. Some don't like to watch it but in terms of playing and expression of skill, PvP went from 0 to 100
On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote: That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all.
That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue.
Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote: [quote] That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue.
Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote: i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different.
This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence.
I disagree very much so.
I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly.
I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it.
I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least.
4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom.
I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker.
It was rarely decided by micro really. It was decided by who had the better composition. One more stalker for either side won the game. Right now there's tons of early/midgame options for aggressive/defensive strats and games can go back and forth. Decisionmaking is important, building good compositions, etc. PvP went from being an extremely shallow matchup to one that rewards smart play. It got more skill oriented. Some don't like to watch it but in terms of playing and expression of skill, PvP went from 0 to 100
Sure, but in my perspective as a spectator it became horrible.
On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote: [quote] That drop denial was alllll Hots.
The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL
TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time.
Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units.
What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug
Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested.
Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight.
maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective.
That sounds like Thorzain.
Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue.
Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
Thorzain opens bio
How he opens is rather irrelevant. If that unit composition is his eventual goal, he needs at least 4-5 bases to build it quickly or he needs to build it slowly off of 3 bases while not dying a Protoss attack while he techs.
Of course this is Thorzain we're talking about. Turtling and defending against armies that would kill most Terrans is sort of what he does.
IMHO swarm hosts is almost a MUST for a zerg in HotS. Just look how suddenly the zerg can control the game after First looked unbeatable with his death ball.
On February 25 2013 20:10 iSunrise wrote: Sleep needed a lot more anti-air for that fight to make any sense.
Zerg doesn't actually have enough anti air to defeat sky toss. This game is a good example of how 3 base skytoss can beat 7 base zerg even without any major blunders of any kind.
I feel so good that all the game atm is protoss being strong lategame, like they should be. Sleep was way too defensive with his swarm, he should have tried to run over First while had the chance
On February 25 2013 20:11 Irratonalys wrote: how do you beat this as zerg?
PvZ lategame is very hard for Zerg. It just doesn't get as much attention as some of the early game stuff because obviously the early game stuff is more commonly experienced.
On February 25 2013 20:11 RowdierBob wrote: Haha, what just happened? Swarm hosts looks pretty weak once P moves past gateway units.
Easier said than done. First's midgame defense was pretty solid, although as a lot of us were saying that the Zerg really needed a Nydus added in with that midgame push. It helps so much with that kind of push.
On February 25 2013 20:12 the`postman wrote: Apparently that was more interesting than broodlord infestor? Very exciting void ray a move!
Actually with the way sleep was moving his units, he was the one a moving around.
He moved his corrupters ON TOP of his hydras meaning everything got stormed at once. He didn't split, he amoved EVERYTHING out of storms rather than just the stormed units.
Sleep threw that away due to a complete lack of control.
On February 25 2013 20:10 iSunrise wrote: Sleep needed a lot more anti-air for that fight to make any sense.
Zerg doesn't actually have enough anti air to defeat sky toss. This game is a good example of how 3 base skytoss can beat 7 base zerg even without any major blunders of any kind.
What do you mean with enough? If you build like 30 corruptors instead of those broodlords he would have been in a much better position. After the fight he could still have morphed them into broods.
On February 25 2013 20:12 Dodgin wrote: I think Sleep should have tried to do more damage in the midgame, letting First get his maxed army instead of pushing his third base was a bad idea.
He did try to go heavy tier 2, actually. What else could he have done, when a bunch colosus is out, with void rays incoming.
i think sleep had corruptor and hydras in the same control group. he was clumping so much. with better control he probably could have one that easily because the fourth base of protoss was delayed for ages and sleep himself was on 5 or 6 bases.
On February 25 2013 20:11 RowdierBob wrote: Haha, what just happened? Swarm hosts looks pretty weak once P moves past gateway units.
Easier said than done. First's midgame defense was pretty solid, although as a lot of us were saying that the Zerg really needed a Nydus added in with that midgame push. It helps so much with that kind of push.
Nydus adds nothing to that push aside from wasting gas, not on that map in those positions.
swarmhosts with nydus wouldve been cool to see. That way you can keep pushing with ur locust from all sorts of angles. Not sure if it wouldve mattered on this map though.
On February 25 2013 20:11 avilo wrote: Now imagine if he were maxed on same comp with mass tempest and those templar. Zerg cannot win vs this lol.
I heard mobile static defense and Vipers are good units.
Turtle skytoss with storm is considered more or less unbeatable by zerg in the late game atm. It may be underdeveloped metagame or it may be balance issues, I don't know, but right now there doesn't seem to be a very good answer to that composition.
On February 25 2013 20:11 Irratonalys wrote: how do you beat this as zerg?
Not getting your drones murdered by 4 zealots, not running through storms.
why would that help? It's not like zerg was low on economy lol
Actually sleep had no bank after he had to replace some of his army. He should've had a 1000/1000 bank at that point, he was on 5 bases and had a standing army for some time. He was WAY low on economy compared to where he should have been.
On February 25 2013 20:12 Dodgin wrote: I think Sleep should have tried to do more damage in the midgame, letting First get his maxed army instead of pushing his third base was a bad idea.
He did try to go heavy tier 2, actually. What else could he have done, when a bunch colosus is out, with void rays incoming.
He didn't try to siege up First's third base at all is what I meant, he could have split off 2 or 3 Swarm Host's to try to kill it. He pushed too slowly.
On February 25 2013 20:11 RowdierBob wrote: Haha, what just happened? Swarm hosts looks pretty weak once P moves past gateway units.
Easier said than done. First's midgame defense was pretty solid, although as a lot of us were saying that the Zerg really needed a Nydus added in with that midgame push. It helps so much with that kind of push.
This. Midgame the SH is so strong. SH, corruptor, ling/hydra is such a good composition with overseers to spot observers. But if the Protoss manages to hit that late game composition things get very rough.
On February 25 2013 20:14 SC2ShoWTimE wrote: i think sleep had corruptor and hydras in the same control group. he was clumping so much. with better control he probably could have one that easily because the fourth base of protoss was delayed for ages and sleep himself was on 5 or 6 bases.
Yep, Sleep only had 2 control groups, one for hydra/corruptor and the other for swarm hosts.
On February 25 2013 20:12 Pandemona wrote: Biggest throw in HOTS so far that?
First had an advanced lead in early to mid game
Yeah then it got owned? was like 5/6 base Zerg vs 3 base P as he kept camping out by First's 4th and sniping it? Then he took a stupid engagement and didnt "attempt" to micro any of his units out of storms. Then remaxed on pure hydra....
On February 25 2013 20:11 RowdierBob wrote: Haha, what just happened? Swarm hosts looks pretty weak once P moves past gateway units.
Easier said than done. First's midgame defense was pretty solid, although as a lot of us were saying that the Zerg really needed a Nydus added in with that midgame push. It helps so much with that kind of push.
Nydus adds nothing to that push aside from wasting gas, not on that map in those positions.
Did you watch the same game I did?
Did you watch Queens try and walk back to the base off creep and force engagements in the middle that First took advantage of?
On February 25 2013 20:11 avilo wrote: Now imagine if he were maxed on same comp with mass tempest and those templar. Zerg cannot win vs this lol.
I heard mobile static defense and Vipers are good units.
Turtle skytoss with storm is considered more or less unbeatable by zerg in the late game atm. It may be underdeveloped metagame or it may be balance issues, I don't know, but right now there doesn't seem to be a very good answer to that composition.
Good control could probably help (after seeing sleeps terrible control in the last game).
Seriously getting all your corrupters and hydras stormed at the same time as they're stood on the same spot is just dumb. Fungal would kill vikings/bio like that in WoL and does so even now.
Not getting your drones murdered by 4 zealots, not running through storms.
how do burrowed units and air units that move slightly slower than tectonic plates dodge storms?
He had his corruptors, hydras, and broods stacked, and was indecisively dancing the former as though he was debating just sacrificing the broods and running.
You can't just all in with your Hive tech army any more and win. Split the map with static defense and add Vipers and/or Infestors. Stop complaining about something that is beatable. It's unbeatable if you just do the old WoL Hive tech A-move "cuz I got Broodlords" style.
On February 25 2013 20:11 Irratonalys wrote: how do you beat this as zerg?
Not getting your drones murdered by 4 zealots, not running through storms.
Actually you don't win whatever the economy and tech once there is enough air Army on protoss side because no matter how you look at it, Zerg Anti Air is not strong enough. Personnaly, I'm okay with it though, as long as I have enough possibility to attack in mid game to win or gain enough of an advantage, and it seems there is more possibility with mutalisk/roach hydra viper/ swarm host.
On February 25 2013 20:16 Arco wrote: You can't just all in with your Hive tech army any more and win. Split the map with static defense and add Vipers and/or Infestors. Stop complaining about something that is beatable. It's unbeatable if you just do the old WoL Hive tech A-move "cuz I got Broodlords" style.
It's too early to say something is or isn't beatable. It's not easy to beat regardless.
On February 25 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: that was so entertaining. very different from WoL ZvP.
The problem is that it's entertaining because it's different, not because it's a better match-up imo.
It's way better.
Infestor/Broodlord is literally the dullest unit composition there is, and the fact that the only way Protoss could ever really counter it was via the Archon Toilet just made it worse.
First recent game of HotS ZvP I've watched, they're actually content with the air stacking + storm dynamic? Short of getting a complete circle with your corruptors (or having like 15 vipers with enough army somehow rofl) I'm not seeing how you micro your way out of that; corruptor range and movement speed are way too low. Are we just back to the earlier WoL styles of end game before protoss can get close to a max?
The swarm host/corruptor v colossi/voidray/stalker wars are pretty fucking awesome though; shame it seems to transition into move back and forth until you can storm and win.
Not getting your drones murdered by 4 zealots, not running through storms.
how do burrowed units and air units that move slightly slower than tectonic plates dodge storms?
Except he ran his brood lords and hydras with speed upgrade back and forth through storms without attacking. On creep too, lol
So what are you suggesting? That he should have loaded all his army back into a Nydus and went back to his base every time he wanted to pull back slightly? LOL...
The Queens moving slowly was a matter of Creep spread. He had Overlord speed, he could have brought Overlords to creep up then put down tumors in the middle of the map, but he was probably afraid of losing Overlords to Phoenixes early on, that's why he didn't. He probably still should have.
On February 25 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: that was so entertaining. very different from WoL ZvP.
The problem is that it's entertaining because it's different, not because it's a better match-up imo.
Anything is better than mass spine crawlers, infestors and brood lords. Anything.
Not sure. Protoss with warp prism mass zealot warp in late game is pretty fun to watch.
Now if we look at immortal sentries all in however. Basically we are just watching protoss land all those FFs and zerg hoping he has enough to hold lol beautiful FFs they maybe, but the lack of interaction between players is stupid
Man, throughout this whole showmatch series/tournament I've gotten the impression that everyone except LG-IM is just screwing around. Hilarious start from Supernova.
On February 25 2013 20:14 Schelim wrote: that was so entertaining. very different from WoL ZvP.
The problem is that it's entertaining because it's different, not because it's a better match-up imo.
I'm not sure if It's possible to get something worse than WoL PvZ where you either all in or you die
Looks like its switched to Swarmhost bust or die tbh.
Roach/Hydra/Viper is extremely strong, that's just not true.
Roach/hydra/viper is still an "I have to win midgame or else" strategy. True there is more variety then win with immortal sentry or die to infestor broodlord, but not by much.
Pretty good game so far. But SuperNova has a decisive advantage after First threw away his gas on those sentries as now Supernova is equal in tech and ahead on upgrades and eco.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
On February 25 2013 20:23 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Did I just spot Stalker goo? Didn't even recognize that when playing :d
Was it a Stalker? Thats probably new for Stalkers if so...although I know Immortals did have it during WoL.
Definitely Stalkers, seems to be the case.
As someone who spent a few hours playing with ragdolls in the HotS beta unit tester, I can confirm that Stalkers bleed blue goo when they have a ragdoll death. Blizzard definitely listening to feedback.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
woaa what? widow mine cheese into random threwaway from Protoss into Colossus push is the best starcraft gets? that game was sooo bad.
On February 25 2013 20:29 Vindicare605 wrote: How did LG-IM go from being a team stacked with great Terrans to having the most overpowered Protoss line up I've ever heard of?
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
woaa what? widow mine cheese into random threwaway from Protoss into Colossus push is the best starcraft gets? that game was sooo bad.
it wasnt THAT bad. as far as games go it was above average at least (opportunities for both players to win, not a one sided route)
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
They should really just split into IM A and B and enter GSTL as two teams.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
They should really just split into IM A and B and enter GSTL as two teams.
Yeah I saw someone mention that in the Squirtle thread. But then we'd just have an IM vs IM final in Team Leagues as well.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
They should really just split into IM A and B and enter GSTL as two teams.
Then the team without Hirai choosing the line up would crush.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
They should really just split into IM A and B and enter GSTL as two teams.
Yeah I saw someone mention that in the Squirtle thread. But then we'd just have an IM vs IM final in Team Leagues as well.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Not to mention MMAvZ was a thing of beauty.
TvZ in general was a thing of beauty, and more importantly drg was playing like a fucking god.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
They should really just split into IM A and B and enter GSTL as two teams.
Yeah I saw someone mention that in the Squirtle thread. But then we'd just have an IM vs IM final in Team Leagues as well.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
His team has developed so much talent over the course of sc2 its frankly incredible.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
woaa what? widow mine cheese into random threwaway from Protoss into Colossus push is the best starcraft gets? that game was sooo bad.
I dont mind games that are aggressive at the start, in fact I might go as far as to say I prefer some early back and forth pressure over just turtling up to 200 supply. It surely wasnt the cleanest game but it was exciting and I was never able to be bored because of nothing happening.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
His team has developed so much talent over the course of sc2 its frankly incredible.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
Also pretty much the birth of triple nexus in PvT
nah Hongun made 3rd nexus for macro way before Parting was even known;)
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
jjakji-parting only played 9 games while MKP-parting played 24 iirc ;D
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
Also pretty much the birth of triple nexus in PvT
nah Hongun made 3rd nexus for macro way before Parting was even known;)
rip the best protoss of sc2, Hongun.
Except the only thing Hongun did with that extra economy was make more Blink Stalkers lol.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
Also pretty much the birth of triple nexus in PvT
rip the best protoss of sc2, Hongun.
lmao, he really explored the twilight council tech path.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
i don't see dreamertt, bbi or true doing so well :p
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
i don't see dreamertt, bbi or true doing so well :p
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
i don't see dreamertt, bbi or true doing so well :p
Stop poking holes in my fanboy rants, it ruins everything.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
And how do you think the team got so stacked? Without the coach? Lol.
On February 25 2013 20:28 Adreme wrote: This is starcraft at its best with the constant back and forth. Im thinking HotS might be slightly better than advertised.
Early 2012 before the queen patch :\
Yup, that was the golden age. Loved the TvPs back then. Polt - PartinG, MC - Virus (or Keen?), MKP - PartinG...
Everybody forgets jjakji - Parting, which was MKP - Parting before it was cool.
Also pretty much the birth of triple nexus in PvT
rip the best protoss of sc2, Hongun.
lmao, he really explored the twilight council tech path.
don't u dare sarcasm again, he sometimes made carriers and various 1 and 2base cheese.
HongUn was the protoss we deserved, but not the one we needed at the time. to us, he was a freak, like bitbybit. we needed him, when he made it to ro4, but then we cast him out like a leper. then his next appearances were extremely painful... for us. so we gave him the permission to die.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
It isn't just GSTL. IM played a lot of 'b-teamers' in IPTL as well.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Confirmed. LG-IM wins the GSTL Hots preseason tournament.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
It isn't just GSTL. IM played a lot of 'b-teamers' in IPTL as well.
i don't think they take the online iptl so seriously where they play vs teams like karonte etc.
the coach might be good as a coach, because we have no idea how he coaches the players. but based on the player choices? he simply has the most stacked team to choose from. we also have zero idea how well the players are doing in hots.
On February 25 2013 08:39 Fionn wrote: Feel like Azubu should win.
Violet is the best Zerg in HotS, Supernova is one of the best Terrans, and San is supposed to be one of, if not the best, Protoss in HotS. They also have Genius who looked really good.
Confirmed. LG-IM wins the GSTL Hots preseason tournament.
On February 25 2013 20:51 LimitSEA wrote: The GSTL lineup that we've seen in the pre-season is very different to the players IM usually fields in Team Leagues.
That's partly due to different amounts of experience with HotS, though, Ragnarok and Seed have just played much more than some others, probably.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
It isn't just GSTL. IM played a lot of 'b-teamers' in IPTL as well.
i don't think they take the online iptl so seriously where they play vs teams like karonte etc.
the coach might be good as a coach, because we have no idea how he coaches the players. but based on the player choices? he simply has the most stacked team to choose from. we also have zero idea how well the players are doing in hots.
They played plenty of Korean teams in past IPL TACs... They also had to play Team Taeja.
And considering that this season's IPL finalist get 6 IPL seeds! I am sure they were VERY serious.
On February 25 2013 20:29 LimitSEA wrote: I wouldn't mind ByuL, his ZvT looked crazy good yesterday.
But damn, they're right. So much depth to IM's lineup.
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
It isn't just GSTL. IM played a lot of 'b-teamers' in IPTL as well.
i don't think they take the online iptl so seriously where they play vs teams like karonte etc.
the coach might be good as a coach, because we have no idea how he coaches the players. but based on the player choices? he simply has the most stacked team to choose from. we also have zero idea how well the players are doing in hots.
They played the same players in the finals which were offline
On February 25 2013 20:30 liberate71 wrote: [quote]
It's almost a shame that its a Bo7 hahah... in a match where they could use 8 players or so it'd be awesome.
I know right. The lineup now makes every player decision both awesome and disappointing because it's going to be a good player no matter what, but there are so many good players left on the roster that I want to see play.
Yeah, they lose GSTL's because they never use NesTea or MVP till its too late.
So answer = use them early?
Nah answer = get more awesome players to make NesTeePee even less likely to come out!
This! Coach Kang copped so much flack for sending out B-teamers in GSTL, but now those B-teamers are beasts themselves thanks to the booth experience. So now he can't really make a wrong decision. We only lost last season due to players under performing. Really hope they can sort that out this real season because I'd love to see more Team League trophies at the IM house.
Isn't that what he was talking about a long time ago and people kept giving him flak for it?
Dude was a lot smarter than people give him credit for.
Yepyep. He's honestly one of the best coaches in Korea at the moment, at least aside from Choya. Even getting sponsorships etc, and supporting the team.
yeah first and byul are good players because they were sent out 2 times in gstl.
what an idiotic theory. IM is a good team now because their roster is stacked as fuck, not because of the coach.
It isn't just GSTL. IM played a lot of 'b-teamers' in IPTL as well.
i don't think they take the online iptl so seriously where they play vs teams like karonte etc.
the coach might be good as a coach, because we have no idea how he coaches the players. but based on the player choices? he simply has the most stacked team to choose from. we also have zero idea how well the players are doing in hots.
They played plenty of Korean teams in past IPL TACs... They also had to play Team Taeja.
And considering that this season's IPL finalist get 6 IPL seeds! I am sure they were VERY serious.
they are six wol seeds though haha T_T
i keep feeling more and more than IPL6 wol will be a bit of a flop
On February 25 2013 20:51 LimitSEA wrote: The GSTL lineup that we've seen in the pre-season is very different to the players IM usually fields in Team Leagues.
That's partly due to different amounts of experience with HotS, though, Ragnarok and Seed have just played much more than some others, probably.
Actually, only Ragnarok was sent out 2x (both times as starters). Ruin, MC, ByuL, First and Seed were all sent out once.
On February 25 2013 20:58 Qikz wrote: I think they probably didn't play MVP to give him some rest or something.
That will probably happen even going into HotS. I don't see why they would play him when he's better off taking it easy. I generally hope he's not put out for the sake of his condition even though I love seeing him play.
On February 25 2013 21:02 Dodgin wrote: there are so many IM icons in this thread
It may seem fickle but I changed mine back to IM in celebration. I support 3 teams, I sort of change the icon to celebrate victories or upcoming games hehe.
On February 25 2013 21:02 Dodgin wrote: there are so many IM icons in this thread
It may seem fickle but I changed mine back to IM in celebration. I support 3 teams, I sort of change the icon to celebrate victories or upcoming games hehe.
On February 25 2013 21:02 Dodgin wrote: there are so many IM icons in this thread
It may seem fickle but I changed mine back to IM in celebration. I support 3 teams, I sort of change the icon to celebrate victories or upcoming games hehe.
On February 25 2013 21:02 Dodgin wrote: there are so many IM icons in this thread
Hey Dodgin, just thought I should let you know you're the subject of a little experiment I'm doing which will hopefully be of interest to live report thread watchers...
(Sadly got my bot blocked for the day after messing around a bit lol)
Eventually the idea is that people would sign up to do live reporting of a match like what Shellshock1122 does and the bot would cross post their reports to Twitter. It needs quite a bit of work yet to make it nice, but just thought I'd share the current proof of concept version.
I like the idea though. When It's all set up we can include the link in the OP. The only thing is the character limit might make it hard to have full huge posts on there.
On February 25 2013 21:14 Dodgin wrote: All my posts are on twitter, that's scary.
I like the idea though. When It's all set up we can include the link in the OP. The only thing is the character limit might make it hard to have full huge posts on there.
It'd be ideal for 57 minutes -> 85 minutes of the LosirA v Gumiho game though :o
Edit: hahahahaha hey Dodgin... youre on the interwebz!
On February 25 2013 21:14 Dodgin wrote: All my posts are on twitter, that's scary.
I like the idea though. When It's all set up we can include the link in the OP. The only thing is the character limit might make it hard to have full huge posts on there.
You're famous now. You represent the LR on twitter so don't you dare say something out of line.
On February 25 2013 21:14 Dodgin wrote: All my posts are on twitter, that's scary.
I like the idea though. When It's all set up we can include the link in the OP. The only thing is the character limit might make it hard to have full huge posts on there.
Just never post anything on TL that's more than 140 characters. If you're not brief, you haven't thought it through enough!
On February 25 2013 21:02 Dodgin wrote: there are so many IM icons in this thread
Hey Dodgin, just thought I should let you know you're the subject of a little experiment I'm doing which will hopefully be of interest to live report thread watchers...
(Sadly got my bot blocked for the day after messing around a bit lol)
Eventually the idea is that people would sign up to do live reporting of a match like what Shellshock1122 does and the bot would cross post their reports to Twitter. It needs quite a bit of work yet to make it nice, but just thought I'd share the current proof of concept version.
wow that's pretty creepy. really awesome and cool, but creepy haha
Awesome games, not as coin-flippy and quick as previous matches. Going to be great to see the gameplay once everything settles down and gets a little fleshed out and stable.
As an aside.. I must be the only person in this entire thread who's actually still using the WeMadeFox icon.
On February 25 2013 21:14 Dodgin wrote: All my posts are on twitter, that's scary.
I like the idea though. When It's all set up we can include the link in the OP. The only thing is the character limit might make it hard to have full huge posts on there.
To be precise, just the ones in this thread. Right now it's completely manual in the sense that I have to specify the thread and the user to follow, and then it tweets every post by that user in this thread, essentially refreshing the page every few seconds to look for new posts.
I might try splitting messages across tweets if they're not like 1000 character OPs. Usually when Shellshock1122 is reporting he does something like
12:00 Squirtle used water gun! It's super effective!
13:00 Bomber fainted!
so it might make sense to split across newlines as well. I also need to remove quotes which should help a lot with the limit (ain't nobody got time for quotes on twitter).
Eventually I think I'd want to make another script that watches the forum index for new live report threads and spawns an instance of this script with some pre-specified users, and after that I'd probably split it into separate twitter accounts for each league and add a web interface where people can sign up to do the live reporting and get tweeted.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wtYxxAj.jpg)
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GOMTV![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
TwitchTV![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nA7PF2p.png)
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(and I onlly get up at that time for DRG)
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☞(*⌒▽⌒*)☜ *
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