On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
If you gave them half the spots then yes their chances of winning would increase, that much is obvious. Life was the first royal roader so I can't agree with that at all, that's simply foolish to state. He got into Code S and less than 3 months later was already a two time champion. Kespa is top heavy in GSL as shown by Soulkey and Bogus achieving good results two seasons in a row while others have failed to get to the ro8 more than once. In 2012 Season 5 two Kespa players went straight from Code A to Code S, Roro by beating Fantasy in Round 3 and Baby who beat Symbol in Round 3 ( who would then fall right back to Code B in the next season ). In the up and down matches Flash, Jaedong, Trap, Bbyong, sOs, Flying and Fantasy all lost.
I'm just telling you what happened, none of this is really arguable.
On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
That was kind of the point. We both presented unprovable opinions as facts, except only one of us knows that.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
That was kind of the point. We both presented unprovable opinions as facts, except only one of us knows that.
I put opinion out as opinion, I just believe them, but you don't. So there's a discussion, otherwise, who needs discussion, or possibly argument. And this forum will be dead.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
That was kind of the point. We both presented unprovable opinions as facts, except only one of us knows that.
I put opinion out as opinion, I just believe them, but you don't. So there's a discussion, otherwise, who needs discussion, or possibly argument. And this forum will be dead.
Well you could realize that what you affirm with a lot of conviction in a polemical offensive posture is most certainly wrong. Life was in code B two seasons ago and is now a two time champion three seasons later with a RO16 finish between both championship in a MU that is a little bit random and lost this seasons to one really strong ZvZ player and the best protoss player at the moment, I don't see where you can place it lower than other players.
Now maybe if KeSPA players had half of the spot in code S they would win but 1) that wouldn't prove anything since it would be only one season 2) you can't possibly be certain of this like you seemed to be in your message.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
That was kind of the point. We both presented unprovable opinions as facts, except only one of us knows that.
I put opinion out as opinion, I just believe them, but you don't. So there's a discussion, otherwise, who needs discussion, or possibly argument. And this forum will be dead.
Well you could realize that what you affirm with a lot of conviction in a polemical offensive posture is most certainly wrong. Life was in code B two seasons ago and is now a two time champion three seasons later with a RO16 finish between both championship in a MU that is a little bit random and lost this seasons to one really strong ZvZ player and the best protoss player at the moment, I don't see where you can place it lower than other players.
Now maybe if KeSPA players had half of the spot in code S they would win but 1) that wouldn't prove anything since it would be only one season 2) you can't possibly be certain of this like you seemed to be in your message.
I can be certain on my own opinion because that's my own opinion and I believe it, I'm not asking you to believe it. Some of your eSF fanboys's comments against KeSPA players are offensive to me too, as minority here, I can't hold my tongue to let you majority to bully minority all day long.
On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
If you gave them half the spots then yes their chances of winning would increase, that much is obvious. Life was the first royal roader so I can't agree with that at all, that's simply foolish to state. He got into Code S and less than 3 months later was already a two time champion. Kespa is top heavy in GSL as shown by Soulkey and Bogus achieving good results two seasons in a row while others have failed to get to the ro8 more than once. In 2012 Season 5 two Kespa players went straight from Code A to Code S, Roro by beating Fantasy in Round 3 and Baby who beat Symbol in Round 3 ( who would then fall right back to Code B in the next season ). In the up and down matches Flash, Jaedong, Trap, Bbyong, sOs, Flying and Fantasy all lost.
I'm just telling you what happened, none of this is really arguable.
I got a beating in logic today by a lawyer so if I were you, I'd never say something is not arguable.
For example, when you bring up the Life part, a strong counterpoint is that edgeout was talking about dropping down all the way to Code B and Royal Roader is just winning Code S from Code S on your first try. Life's first entrance was in Season 1 in all of GSL and he won Season 4. Anyways, I don't think how Life was in Season 1 back when he was in ZeNex is applicable to his current state and I suspect he'll just pull a Nestea if that happened. But that point is so easily debatable, never mind right or wrong, just easy to argue.
But my main point is never ever say something is not arguable unless you keep to 1+1=2 stuff or cold hard facts with as little application as possible. Even when you apply stuff, the application can be debated in terms of its relevancy to the original statement.
I was referring to how kespa is top heavy in GSL, there's no way to predict how life would do if he was sent back to Code B so I wasn't including that part at all, I just said I can't agree with it.
On February 19 2013 08:01 Dodgin wrote: I was referring to how kespa is top heavy in GSL, there's no way to predict how life would do if he was sent back to Code B so I wasn't including that part at all, I just said I can't agree with it.
You know I could begin going into sentence structure and semantics just to be a dick.
LOL. I just wanted to get the point across that you should never say something is not arguable.
No, you're right. I wasn't clear in my original post about that. I posted again to clear up that confusion. Of course you can always try to argue anything but all I did was lay out the facts on what happened and then gave my opinion that kespa is top heavy in their GSL performance.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
You put esf teams in pro league and top 4 spots would be esf teams.
Sorry for enter in your argumentation, but both of you are just doing empty especulation. Just wait maybe 1 or 2 years and see if itll be a 1 sided game or a equilibrium between Kespa and esf.
That was kind of the point. We both presented unprovable opinions as facts, except only one of us knows that.
I put opinion out as opinion, I just believe them, but you don't. So there's a discussion, otherwise, who needs discussion, or possibly argument. And this forum will be dead.
Well you could realize that what you affirm with a lot of conviction in a polemical offensive posture is most certainly wrong. Life was in code B two seasons ago and is now a two time champion three seasons later with a RO16 finish between both championship in a MU that is a little bit random and lost this seasons to one really strong ZvZ player and the best protoss player at the moment, I don't see where you can place it lower than other players.
Now maybe if KeSPA players had half of the spot in code S they would win but 1) that wouldn't prove anything since it would be only one season 2) you can't possibly be certain of this like you seemed to be in your message.
I can be certain on my own opinion because that's my own opinion and I believe it, I'm not asking you to believe it. Some of your eSF fanboys's comments against KeSPA players are offensive to me too, as minority here, I can't hold my tongue to let you majority to bully minority all day long.
It being your own opinion doesn't allow you to use it in a debate if it can't stand an argumentation. You can't just decide that something wrong is your opinion and expect people to accept it, there has to be some reasoning behind it.
On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
If you gave them half the spots then yes their chances of winning would increase, that much is obvious. Life was the first royal roader so I can't agree with that at all, that's simply foolish to state. He got into Code S and less than 3 months later was already a two time champion. Kespa is top heavy in GSL as shown by Soulkey and Bogus achieving good results two seasons in a row while others have failed to get to the ro8 more than once. In 2012 Season 5 two Kespa players went straight from Code A to Code S, Roro by beating Fantasy in Round 3 and Baby who beat Symbol in Round 3 ( who would then fall right back to Code B in the next season ). In the up and down matches Flash, Jaedong, Trap, Bbyong, sOs, Flying and Fantasy all lost.
I'm just telling you what happened, none of this is really arguable.
You are dealing with very small sample sizes, it is just variance. Concrete conclusions like KESPA is top heavy in individual leagues in general ability-wise is speculative at best.
On February 19 2013 01:36 Xiphos wrote: EG-TL should stop making those goofy videos and start focusing on their bread and butter. This is just plain embarrassing, its not like they don't have enough practice time a la AirForce Ace.
By the way, I'm not even surprised to see Jaedong losing, his prime was long over around 2010.
Yeah, INcontrol would totally have owned WJS if he wasn't making the video...
No he needs to actually get good at the game too by putting in more practice time too and get his butt to Korea.
I think InControl himself will tell you that if it was just practice that he is missing from being a top player global, he would train his butt off.
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
If you gave them half the spots then yes their chances of winning would increase, that much is obvious. Life was the first royal roader so I can't agree with that at all, that's simply foolish to state. He got into Code S and less than 3 months later was already a two time champion. Kespa is top heavy in GSL as shown by Soulkey and Bogus achieving good results two seasons in a row while others have failed to get to the ro8 more than once. In 2012 Season 5 two Kespa players went straight from Code A to Code S, Roro by beating Fantasy in Round 3 and Baby who beat Symbol in Round 3 ( who would then fall right back to Code B in the next season ). In the up and down matches Flash, Jaedong, Trap, Bbyong, sOs, Flying and Fantasy all lost.
I'm just telling you what happened, none of this is really arguable.
You are dealing with very small sample sizes, it is just variance. Concrete conclusions like KESPA is top heavy in individual leagues in general ability-wise is speculative at best.
over the few seasons of GSL so far, we've got quite a bit of data now
I don't see Jaedong, Taeja, Hero, and JYP filming silly videos.
In fact, I don't see your point at all, and I doubt anyone else does either. Kespa teams have done all sorts of silly stuff in the past. They have had female beauty pageants (with only males participating) and played soccer games versus other Kespa teams.
The problem isn't filming videos. The problem is that Kespa players are REALLY fucking good and very underrated. If you wiped the GSL to a clean slate for one season (Code A/S wiped), you would have over 70% of Code S being Kespa by the end of the third season easily.
Your second point is just wrong, there have been plenty of opportunities for more Kespa players to get into Code S and all 7 of them failed to advance through the up/downs, Kespa is really top heavy when it comes to good individual league players so far.
You give 16 seeds to KeSPA players in code S at the beginning, they will have championship by now. You put Life back in code B, no way he can get good results in code S after 3 seasons.
Proleague format produces teams with depth, they are not top heavy at all. eSF teams on the other hand, are overly top heavy, due to the low significance of team league, and the all kill format. And they attend tons of individual tournaments.
If you gave them half the spots then yes their chances of winning would increase, that much is obvious. Life was the first royal roader so I can't agree with that at all, that's simply foolish to state. He got into Code S and less than 3 months later was already a two time champion. Kespa is top heavy in GSL as shown by Soulkey and Bogus achieving good results two seasons in a row while others have failed to get to the ro8 more than once. In 2012 Season 5 two Kespa players went straight from Code A to Code S, Roro by beating Fantasy in Round 3 and Baby who beat Symbol in Round 3 ( who would then fall right back to Code B in the next season ). In the up and down matches Flash, Jaedong, Trap, Bbyong, sOs, Flying and Fantasy all lost.
I'm just telling you what happened, none of this is really arguable.
You are dealing with very small sample sizes, it is just variance. Concrete conclusions like KESPA is top heavy in individual leagues in general ability-wise is speculative at best.
over the few seasons of GSL so far, we've got quite a bit of data now
"Quite a bit" is relative. The fact that the best records in proleague do not correlate that well with best results in individual leagues should emphasise this.
EPT
