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[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs. EG-Liquid R3 - Page 15

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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ConGee
Profile Joined May 2012
318 Posts
February 01 2013 18:27 GMT
#281
Honestly, can't understand how EG-TL expects wins if they keep throwing out trash like Puma, Zenio, and Huk.

User was warned for this post
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
February 01 2013 18:39 GMT
#282
overrated
Nosforit
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada260 Posts
February 01 2013 18:53 GMT
#283
On February 02 2013 03:11 LakseWim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 02:31 sitromit wrote:
Puma going for the record of most losses in proleague.


this o.O. He is 0-6, before proleague began i thought he would be one of the most important players for EGTL


He is. Which is unfortunate because you need your key contributors to WIN in order to have a chance at being a strong team. If Puma were to all of a sudden go on a winning streak, all other things staying the same, EGTL would be much stronger.

Of course, that's probably not going to happen. EGTL's best hope at this point is to take advantage of the change to HotS next season to qualify for the post season.
The time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted time.
oXoCube
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada197 Posts
February 01 2013 18:55 GMT
#284
Thumbs up for the believers who had Turn in main team

Turn vs Stats 2-14-12 never forget

EGTL pretty clearly does not have the depth everyone thought they had going into the season

RezChi
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2368 Posts
February 01 2013 19:02 GMT
#285
Khaaannn!!!
GreyKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4720 Posts
February 01 2013 19:11 GMT
#286
there has to be a coaching or practice problem at this point.
sacade
Profile Joined January 2013
166 Posts
February 01 2013 19:30 GMT
#287
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics

if we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training).
And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please
SamsungStar
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States912 Posts
February 01 2013 19:33 GMT
#288
On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics

if we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training).
And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please


I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro.

Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10.
hangarninetysix
Profile Joined August 2010
263 Posts
February 01 2013 19:39 GMT
#289
On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:
On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less


WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard.

On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:
On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]

That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case.


You don't read very well.


?
Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague?

1 - Why? Care to counter argument?

2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues.


IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?


iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy.

I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o


Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!!
Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s.


When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average.


So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s?


What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. I would even say Bo1s maybe matter more because every game is live or die situation.



I think Bo1 is actually much less random than Bo3/5, unless there is a really really long time to prepare. I don't think most players can adequately prepare for that many games on short notice like in MLG or IEM. In this format (non winners league), everyone has time to prepare for every eventuality in their game. If they lose to something, it means they didn't take a possible move by their opponent into account when devising their strategy. I think if both players have a ton of time to prepare though, then Bo5 is definitely less random.
Corsica
Profile Joined February 2011
Ukraine1854 Posts
February 01 2013 19:42 GMT
#290
Stop putting Puma...he is like 0-7 in Pro League
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
February 01 2013 19:49 GMT
#291
Regardless of what the reason is, EG-TL needs to shape up. It doesn't matter if they're two teams or a hundred teams smushed together. It doesn't matter how many foreigners or stars or whatever they're stacking on their team. It doesn't matter if their opponents have prepared macro builds, cheeses, or a bear trap hidden in the booth to hinder the EG-TL players from playing. The point is, they're a team competing in a team competition and they need to put in even more effort than the KeSPA teams to play catch-up. As professionals, there's little excuse for fluctuating in performance so much.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
Jacmert
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1709 Posts
February 01 2013 19:49 GMT
#292
On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics

if we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training).
And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please


I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro.

Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10.

When was the last time we even got to an Ace match?

HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well.

The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned.
Plat Support Main #believe
Jacmert
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1709 Posts
February 01 2013 19:56 GMT
#293
On February 02 2013 04:49 ymir233 wrote:
Regardless of what the reason is, EG-TL needs to shape up.
...
As professionals, there's little excuse for fluctuating in performance so much.

I think it's pretty simple. Our best shot is to get Taeja, Stephano, HerO, and Revival in the lineup as often as possible. There aren't good enough reasons for them NOT to be in every single match. I'd like to see more Thorzain and Huk, too, as long as they're in good shape.

I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.

The other thing that the top calibre players like HerO need to do is just play more standard. They're actually a step above all the other Kespa players except for a few aces, like Rain, maybe Soulkey/Innovation, etc. It was gut wrenching to see HerO lose after his cheese-vs-cheese, and even then, he showed how amazing a player he is by even prolonging the game that long.

In summary: @EGtrotRC (the EG-TL coach) should just keep putting Taeja, HerO, Stephano, and Revival in the lineup every single game and get the first three to play a bit more standard/safe. Even a greedy Kespa player who gets an econ advantage early on is not going to have a high chance of beating safe play out of Taeja/HerO/Stephano.
Plat Support Main #believe
oneill12
Profile Joined February 2012
Romania1222 Posts
February 01 2013 20:10 GMT
#294
Sad
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
February 01 2013 20:11 GMT
#295
Embarassing performance by EG-TL. They were so outplayed it was just sad to witness.
insanet
Profile Joined January 2010
Peru439 Posts
February 01 2013 20:12 GMT
#296
wow, EGTL got smacked pretty hard.

Damn, KHAN is in beast mode nowadays.
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
February 01 2013 20:13 GMT
#297
I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.


Yeah man, definitely don't buy into taeja's problems. especially because it's not like he ever tweeted a picture of a half-dozen needles sticking in his wrist...
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
SamsungStar
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States912 Posts
February 01 2013 20:15 GMT
#298
On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:
On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics

if we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training).
And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please


I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro.

Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10.

When was the last time we even got to an Ace match?

HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well.

The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned.


Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
February 01 2013 20:16 GMT
#299
On February 02 2013 05:13 GTPGlitch wrote:
Show nested quote +
I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.


Yeah man, definitely don't buy into taeja's problems. especially because it's not like he ever tweeted a picture of a half-dozen needles sticking in his wrist...


Yea, and it's not like Stephano was at the GSL studio at the same time as Proleague, nah definitely not.
Azriel
Profile Joined December 2010
Mexico462 Posts
February 01 2013 20:17 GMT
#300
Wow, even Turn won his match. Thanks EGTL for sending out Puma!
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