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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
[SPL] Samsung KHAN vs. EG-Liquid R3
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Winner?Samsung Khan? (14) 58% EG.TL? (10) 42% 24 total votes Your vote: Winner? (Vote): EG.TL?
(Vote): Samsung Khan?
Poll: Most Anticipated Match?RorO vs Jaedong (7) 29% Stork vs JYP (6) 25% JangBi vs Hero (6) 25% TurN vs Puma (3) 13% Reality vs Zenio (1) 4% Shine vs Revival (1) 4% 24 total votes Your vote: Most Anticipated Match? (Vote): RorO vs Jaedong
(Vote): Reality vs Zenio
(Vote): TurN vs Puma
(Vote): Stork vs JYP
(Vote): JangBi vs Hero
(Vote): Shine vs Revival
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I have JYP and Revival on my anti, give me points.
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Hoping for a Jaedong win, then a Khan sweep. Looks... possible? hopefully.. :D
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Roro < Jaedong (close one though)
Reality > Zenio
Turn > Puma
Stork < JYP
Jangbi < Hero
Shine < Revival
Makes it 4-2 for EG-TL
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wow that is alot of same race match ups.
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Roro < Jaedong
Reality > Zenio
Turn > Puma
Stork > JYP
Jangbi > Hero
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Too many mirrors  Go Khan!!
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Terann......
Thorzain: "Protoss Zerg!"
Coach: "And..."
Thorzain: "hmm.. Random"
Coach: "And...??"
Thorzain: "WHAT??"
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Roro 0-9 against JD in BW
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Why the hell did they jack up the music volume.. so annoying..
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Go jaedong! Just want to watch you play then go to bed :D
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I hope EG-TL can win this and turn their free fall around. JYP, please beat Stork for my FPL points! 
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Austria24417 Posts
Mirror madness :O
Should be good for EGTL though, even Puma should be favored in the TvT. HerO beats Jangbi in PvP unless he gets a build order loss again, JYP vs Stork might be the most even
Reality is good and on my FPL team but I still hope Zenio wins, he could use some momentum now that he made Code A again
Revival's ZvZ is really good so he should be favored too.
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EGTL are huge underdogs here, Samsung are on like a 5 match winstreak, EGTL in freefall. Since EGTL only wins when we completely write them off I think they have a chance here...
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My favorite teams (KT and EG-TL) have really hit a downturn, and these matchups don't look favorable for EG-TL, especially given the fact that they're missing both of their top players (Taeja and Stephano) because of GSL...
In my opinion
JD > Roro
Reality > Zenio
Turn > Puma
So it will all depend on whether JYP/Hero play well, those two probably have the most volatile streaks of winning, not to mention they're both in PvPs
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I cant even see the difference in whose lings those are, the colors are all the same...
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o _ o these casters have almost zero charisma together... its a bit painful to listen. > . >
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At 480p (especially so on this map) I can't tell which lings / blings belong to whom :-(
Really wish Bliz allow the more pronounced color mod for casting
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
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another day, same old eg-tl....
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What? How does JD manage to push back Roro and take a base out? :O
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I just realized how much I love the melee attack animation of Hydras
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Good luck EG-TL
It would be nice to see Thorzain used again.
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Please tell me ZvZ will change in HotS, I can't watch this roach infestor shit anymore.. yellow zergs on a yellow map, throwing green balls at the other zerg throwing green balls >_<
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Recommended Game 1Ok Game (8) 57% Good Game (5) 36% Bad Game (1) 7% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game 1 (Vote): Good Game
(Vote): Ok Game
(Vote): Bad Game
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uggggg jaedong. He like was super behind all game but then made a comeback and I would say was in a good position when he killed roro's 4'th. Then he attacked and lost his army
On February 01 2013 20:04 Gingerninja wrote:
Please tell me ZvZ will change in HotS, I can't watch this roach infestor shit anymore.. yellow zergs on a yellow map, throwing green balls at the other zerg throwing green balls >_<
It's muta dominated right now thank god :D
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...Yeah, if JD can't pull this off it'll definitely be a huge uphill battle...
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I love Jaedong as much as the next guy but watching him lose in that uniform feels so good
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TLADT24920 Posts
Common reality, Khan FTW!
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Austria24417 Posts
Ok Reality is allowed to win so my FPL profits. I guess I get the most points if Jangbi wins vs HerO once and then HerO plays ace match and beats someone random?
Whatever, HerO should just kill everything
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On February 01 2013 20:09 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Ok Reality is allowed to win so my FPL profits.
sorry but he isn't, zenio fighting!^^
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On February 01 2013 20:09 Pandemona wrote:Lol this thread is moving along pretty slowly  That was an ok ZvZ, pretty sad JD lost, but losing a hatch to 7 mutah pretty costly.
With Stephano playing in the GSL it's no wonder traffic here is slow.
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RorO in such good shape, well that should be it for EGTL, cant see them not winning at least 2 more and RorO taking the Ace
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Oh my...there are FPL points at stake here!
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...Why didn't zenio kill the scv on the closer bunker when he pushed out with lings and drones?
[Edit] For someone who's been here since the early beta, you'd think he'd have a good handle on holding off those proxy 2rax...
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Zenio is awful at holding 11 rax, jesus.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 20:18 Inzan1ty wrote:
RorO in such good shape, well that should be it for EGTL, cant see them not winning at least 2 more and RorO taking the Ace
Don't forget that Roro has a 0% winrate vs HerO who is most likely (if the coach is willing to win at all) gonna be the EGTL ace
Unless I'm wrong again
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zenio so smart.. sees bunker gets made, lets it finnish then attacks..
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FUCK YOU REALITY FUCK YOU
User was warned for this post
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On February 01 2013 20:22 mrRoflpwn wrote:
FUCK YOU REALITY FUCK YOU
shut up idiot
User was warned for this post
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Oh Zenio lost already, EG-TL heading towards last place in proleague with quite a impressive pace.
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lol zenio, what the heck? : /
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If you think the situation is bad, wait until next match, or the fact that HerO got a PvP ahead.
Looking grim.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 20:22 Zeon0 wrote:shut up idiot
Don't hate, looooooveeeee
Zenio just losing for my FPL
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 20:23 xN.07)MaK wrote:
If you think the situation is bad, wait until next match, or the fact that HerO got a PvP ahead.
Looking grim.
People waaaaaaaaaay overstate his PvP weakness. He's got top 5 PvP in the world at this point. Only player he hasn't beaten is Rain
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oh zenio this is just sad
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Yay, the uninteresting games are on now so I can fully focus on GSL. Please draw it out a lot longer, Zenio.
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SNM: "....and zenio has nothing."
Pretty much sums it up.
P.S. It will be so bad if EGTL gets all-killed and HerO doesn't get to play AGAIN. Since Puma is pretty much a walkover at this point that leaves just JYP standing in the way of the all-kill...
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Recommended Game 2Bad Game (7) 54% Good Game (4) 31% Ok Game (2) 15% 13 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game 2 (Vote): Good Game
(Vote): Ok Game
(Vote): Bad Game
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If he just pulled 12+ drones it would have been an easy hold.
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samsung 7 wins streak gogo
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
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On February 01 2013 20:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:18 Inzan1ty wrote:
RorO in such good shape, well that should be it for EGTL, cant see them not winning at least 2 more and RorO taking the Ace Don't forget that Roro has a 0% winrate vs HerO who is most likely (if the coach is willing to win at all) gonna be the EGTL ace Unless I'm wrong again
dont worry , if that happens the coach will pick jyp to make sure egtl will get last place.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
This could quite be a 4-0 now "/
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I think Zenio is one of the worst Zerg players right now, maybe not in ZvZ. TL fans, dont kill me now pls
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This team is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed.
We can't win games even with the koreans we bought. EG-TL REPRESENTING!
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In several games the SNM has said something like "He might be 100 supply down, but the good news is that his +2 carapace just finished so now he might actually have a chance in this gaaaa... and its geegeeee!"
Great game understanding
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On February 01 2013 20:30 -Kaiser- wrote:
This team is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed.
We can't win games even with the koreans we bought. EG-TL REPRESENTING!
The worst thing is puma and zenio seems to be among the premier players on the team
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On February 01 2013 20:30 eGoRama wrote:I think Zenio is one of the worst Zerg players right now, maybe not in ZvZ. TL fans, dont kill me now pls
well he brought asd into retirement and got back to code a, at least a small ego boost
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I can see first PUMA win here.
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WIll this day be remembered as the start of puma's domination? I hope so! Its about time...
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lol first zenio, now puma. ez 3-0 for khan
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On February 01 2013 20:38 esdf wrote:
lol first zenio, now puma. ez 3-0 for khan
Well after that they have with Revival, JYP and HerO EG-TL their arguable best players. Shame that JD lost and TaeJa and Stephano aren't there.
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On February 01 2013 20:30 -Kaiser- wrote:
This team is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed.
We can't win games even with the koreans we bought. EG-TL REPRESENTING!
Seeing as EGTL's intent is to lose every game, they might as well go all foreigners. They could hardly do worse.
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On February 01 2013 20:30 eGoRama wrote:I think Zenio is one of the worst Zerg players right now, maybe not in ZvZ. TL fans, dont kill me now pls
People still think his ZvZ is strong?
This isn't 2010/11 anymore. His ZvZ hasn't been outstanding for a long time.
He is mediocre in all matchups at the moment.
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wow screen so weird, like camera is being point at monitor + Show Spoiler +no widescreen, good ol' CRT
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On February 01 2013 20:41 Nymph wrote:wow screen so weird, like camera is being point at monitor + Show Spoiler +no widescreen, good ol' CRT
Seems primary ob got booted, probably some tech problems with second ob.
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very well defended and engaged
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EGTL getting a dose of reality
On February 01 2013 20:41 Evil_Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:30 -Kaiser- wrote:
This team is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed.
We can't win games even with the koreans we bought. EG-TL REPRESENTING! Seeing as EGTL's intent is to lose every game, they might as well go all foreigners. They could hardly do worse.
Agreed, if we're going to have to watch them lose I'd rather see foreigners than korean mercenaries
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On February 01 2013 20:40 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:38 esdf wrote:
lol first zenio, now puma. ez 3-0 for khan Well after that they have with Revival, JYP and HerO EG-TL their arguable best players. Shame that JD lost and TaeJa and Stephano aren't there.
you're probably unaware that only good player KHAN sent out so far was RoRo.
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Dafuq old proleague screen format?
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Just came from the GSL match. Who's in the lead right now? I can't really trust the casters :p
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On February 01 2013 20:48 mijellin wrote:
Just came from the GSL match. Who's in the lead right now? I can't really trust the casters :p
khan, 2-0 u could just check the OP
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On February 01 2013 20:41 00Visor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:30 eGoRama wrote:I think Zenio is one of the worst Zerg players right now, maybe not in ZvZ. TL fans, dont kill me now pls People still think his ZvZ is strong? This isn't 2010/11 anymore. His ZvZ hasn't been outstanding for a long time. He is mediocre in all matchups at the moment.
I said "maybe". Dont really want to bother to check his results in all match ups, just saying this of what I remember from the last several games
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On February 01 2013 20:49 Glubschauge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:48 mijellin wrote:
Just came from the GSL match. Who's in the lead right now? I can't really trust the casters :p khan, 2-0 u could just check the OP
Yeah I wasn't clear, I meant in THIS game. But it's looking pretty obvious now.
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Well Eg-TL is having a really bad time....
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Puma with another bad decision ...
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another one bites the dust. Jesus can some1 win a game, this is geting embarrassing.
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can you please stop using puma and zenio? seriously this is just getting ridiculous
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On February 01 2013 20:50 mijellin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:49 Glubschauge wrote:On February 01 2013 20:48 mijellin wrote:
Just came from the GSL match. Who's in the lead right now? I can't really trust the casters :p khan, 2-0 u could just check the OP Yeah I wasn't clear, I meant in THIS game. But it's looking pretty obvious now.
ah sorry xD
a tip, if puma plays he can never be ahead...
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yeah... i wanted KHAN to win but this is getting sad. What is training like at EG-TL? The guys have talent for sure, something is going wrong tho.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Recommended Game 2Bad Game? (6) 46% Good Game? (4) 31% Ok Game? (3) 23% 13 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game 2 (Vote): Good Game?
(Vote): Ok Game?
(Vote): Bad Game?
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Puma still is the ultimate anti-team pick. For two I'll put him in there anytime.
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United States33327 Posts
the long national nightmare continues!
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On February 01 2013 20:51 Glubschauge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:50 mijellin wrote:On February 01 2013 20:49 Glubschauge wrote:On February 01 2013 20:48 mijellin wrote:
Just came from the GSL match. Who's in the lead right now? I can't really trust the casters :p khan, 2-0 u could just check the OP Yeah I wasn't clear, I meant in THIS game. But it's looking pretty obvious now. ah sorry xD a tip, if puma plays he can never be ahead...
That's a very good tip haha
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stork gonna take down jyp.
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I was listening only to the audio while cooking and man that was CONFUSING ! "PuMa showing some skills, more siege tanks, fine position" FFW 5seconds "Oh PuMa can't hold on to his fourth base, massive supply deficit, gg"...... WTF ?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
On February 01 2013 20:51 Pandemona wrote:Poll: Recommended Game 2Bad Game? (6) 46% Good Game? (4) 31% Ok Game? (3) 23% 13 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game 2 (Vote): Good Game?
(Vote): Ok Game?
(Vote): Bad Game?
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meanwhile, something burning in the office
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Has PuMa even won a map in SPL yet? :[
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They really need someone to force them to practice. It seems that they can train whenever they want, there aren't strict schedules. I am talking about EG-TL
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
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Puma didn't reinforce his army in mid, this wouldn't have been so one sided in the end if he did Gogo JYP, one win at least for TL-EG pls.
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On February 01 2013 20:52 bokchoi wrote:
Has PuMa even won a map in SPL yet? :[
He is 0-6 I believe :p
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Not looking good for EG-TL.
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TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there?
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PuMa always nervous in Korean events with koreans watching it live
eternal Code B player, that only feels comfortable around foreigners
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It looks like they're giving away free points every week at this point.
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On February 01 2013 20:52 Pandemona wrote:
EGTL Need a miracles ;_;
I'm sure IM would be happy to substitute for them anytime.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there?
Snute did say he wanted to go sometime. TLO could do really well in PL but he just settled back in at home
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On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there?
They always said that eventually will go but never said when. More important would be that TaeJa can play again.
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Oh god EG-TL....not good.....
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United States97276 Posts
Puma still god mode on my anti team I see
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Lost for words when it comes to Puma. Not a single map won in PL so far.
At this rate, EG-TL will get 4-0'd again today. And then you have to question why the better players do not get fielded in the first four games. Like in the last match, HerO won't even get to do anything about the score. -_-
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seriously, trust goes only so far. time to stop sending out puma. ;_;
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Stork closing it out would be a perfect EGTL losing scenario
Hell, even fnatic would do better only fielding aLive and Oz every playday haha
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Team 8 "uniforms" looks like something I'd dress up my (non existant) 3 yo child in.
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On February 01 2013 20:59 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Puma still god mode on my anti team I see
You took a huge risk there! Luckily it's paying off
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On February 01 2013 20:57 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? They always said that eventually will go but never said when. More important would be that TaeJa can play again.
they still only have three players then, one of them doing quite bad. But maybe Zenio can step up, he cant be that bad if he qualifies for Code A...
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I´ll be pissed if HerO doesn´t get to play again.
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wow Puma lost again, he's like 0-6 or 0-7 now?
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Austria24417 Posts
In other news, HerO apparently had trouble finding a practice partner for PL
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Time to finish the fight, gogo Stork!
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If only they had TLO there instead of Puma. I know he has good practice results/has potential, but damn, they need to get Puma some serious therapeutic training to get through those nerves before bringing him back out, 0-6 is just...ugh :/. Might be worst record of all players in proleague?
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On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there?
Stephano
Taeja
Jaedong
JYP
Hero
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Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma
And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation.
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Something is going wrong when, looking beforehand at the lineups, you get to the conclusion that EG-TL best scenario was going to the Ace match.
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On February 01 2013 21:01 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:
Might be worst record of all players in proleague?
It actually is...
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On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation.
The lineup is nowhere near as good as you or the TL staff imagined compared to the competition.
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On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation.
If that were the lineup today, I'm quite confident we wouldn't be 0-3 already.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation.
Why does every thread have to go there T_T
If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of
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On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation.
Nah, EGTL just doesn't really care about PL. Like how Kespa players don't care about GSL.
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On February 01 2013 20:51 ichnaschekot wrote:
Puma still is the ultimate anti-team pick. For two I'll put him in there anytime.
haha, i dont know. I think you should consider huk as the best 2point anti teamer. For 2 points, you get a guy who never gets sent out, and if he does, he will perform like puma. I have had him for 3 rounds, he has been the superstar of the anti team, never failed me. With puma you just dont know. EGTL terran lineup is not very deep atm, so as unlikely as it is, Puma may be able to win a game in the future.
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Oh my, what's going on here? 3-0? :O I sure hope Stork doesn't kick my fpl in the nuts. Terminator has already done that today. :/
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On February 01 2013 21:07 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Oh my, what's going on here? 3-0? :O I sure hope Stork doesn't kick my fpl in the nuts. Terminator has already done that today. :/
No problem, JYP is going DTs and Stork has no sentry, no robo, no cannons...
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JYP bo win right? straigth DT vs FE + Blink without robo
yup, thanks captain JYP!
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:08 HolydaKing wrote:
JYP bo win right? straigth DT vs FE + Blink without robo
Yeah he should win. One of those games that people leave the second they spot the DTs
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Recommended GameBad Game? (6) 50% Ok Game? (4) 33% Good Game? (2) 17% 12 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game (Vote): Good Game?
(Vote): Ok Game?
(Vote): Bad Game?
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yay, when behind dark shrine. At least we got a win...
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At least one win, yay
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This is why you open with Robo when you go such fast FE
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
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Austria24417 Posts
Some kespa protosses really like to gamble expand
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On February 01 2013 21:08 CrazyBirdman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:07 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Oh my, what's going on here? 3-0? :O I sure hope Stork doesn't kick my fpl in the nuts. Terminator has already done that today. :/ No problem, JYP is going DTs and Stork has no sentry, no robo, no cannons...
Phew. ^_____^
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And Hero is favored against Jangbi, so this could become 3-2. Then it's only one more win for the ace match of Hero vs Roro.
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On February 01 2013 21:04 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Nah, EGTL just doesn't really care about PL. Like how Kespa players don't care about GSL.
Funny, because as i know ( i can be wrong) they paid a bunch of money to not care. Weird
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:11 Grumbels wrote:
And Hero is favored against Jangbi, so this could become 3-2. Then it's only one more win for the ace match of Hero vs Roro.
Your post pleases me, continue!
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I think Stork's build did not need to be such a severe build order loss. If he spotted the dark templar while walking past them he could have warped in a quick sentry to block off his main. He might still have lost, but in a less comical way.
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watch Hero get Jangbanged...
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At least my FPL team is happy with JYP on main and Stork on anti. But to be able to salvage this for EG-TL and get this to ace, now HerO and Revival must not lose.
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Austria24417 Posts
Oh right I have Stork on anti. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
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On February 01 2013 21:11 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:04 vthree wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Nah, EGTL just doesn't really care about PL. Like how Kespa players don't care about GSL. Funny, because as i know ( i can be wrong) they paid a bunch of money to not care. Weird
I think he is being sarcastic, because Kespa players DO care about GSL.
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well revival should win but the PvP is a coinflip
all hope on HerO`s shoulders now
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This game is gonna be silly...
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:22 CrazyBirdman wrote:
This game is gonna be silly...
Why so? Can't watch right now -_-
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and stephano is losing to bogus...
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Jangbi needs to kill that middle cannon asap lol xD
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actually i think this is pretty even. jangbi has no army
e// ok, really bad call
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
Poll: Recommended GameGood Game? (9) 64% Bad Game? (3) 21% Ok Game? (2) 14% 14 total votes Your vote: Recommended Game (Vote): Good Game?
(Vote): Ok Game?
(Vote): Bad Game?
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7 win streak, what's up?!
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And so EG-TL went out with a JangBang
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bad luck, need better coaches
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Well played samsung, EGTL coach still making me cringe hard, oh well, mayhaps puma will get a win somtime before the end of this season.
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Who cares if EG-TL lost, JYP gave points and that matters. 
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EG-TL
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Austria24417 Posts
Well I guess it wasn't horrible for my FPL today. Reality, Jangbi and Stork all profiting me and at least HerO played
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this was one of the craziest PvPs iI have seen. Jangbi hoorraayy. I've got hero on anti.
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Prepare yourselves, Proleague, you just unleashed a monster into your tournament.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
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On February 01 2013 21:32 thirtyapm wrote:
bad luck, need better coaches
Hwanni did well with fnatic, beating Prime and LG-IM though
Destiny punishes him for betraying his real team and joining arch rivals
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Ugh, EGTL just keeps losing.
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I think I read somewhere that the coaches send players based on who would gain the most from that experience more so then who would win
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Great. The only player of KHAN I had on my anti-team is Stork. He's the only one to lose :D
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Rough start for EGTL, losing to the two teams placed at the bottom with them at the start of the round.
It'll probably only get worse from there.
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RorO with the first 3-win streak.
Scoring:
KHAN +4
EG-TL -2
RorO +5
Reality +4
Turn +4
JYP +3
JangBi +4
Shine +2
Revival +1
all other KHAN players +1
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haha
T8 and Sansumg Khan int top 4
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Yeah Khan with a Jangbi's win that's a good day!
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Another embarrassing show by EG-TL. Honestly, just tragic performance.
The expectations when their participation was announced (pre-SPL starting) and their observed performance... just wow, such a delta. I don't think its a case of Kespa player being more impressive than expected, but EG-TL delivering less than expected.
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On February 01 2013 21:56 Elwar wrote:
Another embarrassing show by EG-TL. Honestly, just tragic performance.
The expectations when their participation was announced (pre-SPL starting) and their observed performance... just wow, such a delta. I don't think its a case of Kespa player being more impressive than expected, but EG-TL delivering less than expected.
Not having Taeja is going to be the end of them, Stephano can at least go 50-50 too and when he leaves Korea there goes another core player.
Seriously EG just buy Squirtle already.
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I propose the addition of a new mode for pro league. It's a mixture of the current two with a twist- race to 4 but instead of the winner continuing to play it's the loser that stays. I call it "get Puma to 0-30 league".
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Has puma won yet?
Pretty sure even cloud would have won a game by now.
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Puma is like -5 after this ?
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On February 01 2013 22:05 Dotq wrote:
Has puma won yet?
Pretty sure even cloud would have won a game by now.
i believe he's 0-6
edit: nop,0-5
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On February 01 2013 21:45 TAMinator wrote:
I think I read somewhere that the coaches send players based on who would gain the most from that experience more so then who would win
But still with this match, not much choice to pick players, Taeja won't play, Stephano is in GSL. Pretty much every players left need to be in the lineup. Thorzain and whoelse didn't play today?
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Tragic showing
Last place.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51476 Posts
On February 01 2013 21:52 Proseat wrote:
RorO with the first 3-win streak.
Scoring:
KHAN +4
EG-TL -2
RorO +5
Reality +4
Turn +4
JYP +3
JangBi +4
Shine +2
Revival +1
all other KHAN players +1
Including stork? even though he lost?
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 22:22 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:52 Proseat wrote:
RorO with the first 3-win streak.
Scoring:
KHAN +4
EG-TL -2
RorO +5
Reality +4
Turn +4
JYP +3
JangBi +4
Shine +2
Revival +1
all other KHAN players +1
Including stork? even though he lost?
Yeah, he gets one for being sent out and one for his team winning
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sigh.. whenever i see a lineup with both puma and zenio i think, ok, well maybe EG-TL relish the chance of winning from a 0-2 position
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France12771 Posts
Does anyone who knows better has any idea why Puma has become that terrible?
I didn't watch the games so I can't see where he struggles but he keeps losing to the worst terrans Kespa could possibly send in TurN and Classic. He never fails to amaze me with his ability to lose.
Making the 1-1-1 haters happy.
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On February 01 2013 22:34 Poopi wrote:
Does anyone who knows better has any idea why Puma has become that terrible?
I didn't watch the games so I can't see where he struggles but he keeps losing to the worst terrans Kespa could possibly send in TurN and Classic. He never fails to amaze me with his ability to lose.
Making the 1-1-1 haters happy.
He didn't really get better for quite a while and then he had to have eye(?) surgery some months ago, and looked completely off after the break he had to take.
I'm not sure why he looks so awful now, but I also think he might be a nervous wreck in Proleague and scared to death by Kespa players after not making it as a b-teamer. Didn't watch his game though.
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On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of
Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses.
In other news, KHAN wins again
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again
Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well.
I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players.
That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s.
Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything.
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On February 01 2013 22:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 22:22 Pandemona wrote:On February 01 2013 21:52 Proseat wrote:
RorO with the first 3-win streak.
Scoring:
KHAN +4
EG-TL -2
RorO +5
Reality +4
Turn +4
JYP +3
JangBi +4
Shine +2
Revival +1
all other KHAN players +1
Including stork? even though he lost? Yeah, he gets one for being sent out and one for his team winning
Scoring for Stork was as follows:
+1 lineup
-1 game loss
+1 team win
He is thus included in "all other KHAN players +1" since I didn't list him separately.
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Inc EGSquirtleRC and EGHyuNRC. jk
But I honestly can't really picture them catching up at this rate...
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Austria24417 Posts
Also interesting to note is that HerO apparently couldn't find a practice partner for his PL match, I wonder if the rest of EGTL is having those problems too. They did say it wasn't easy to find some
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LOL Samsung won again. go go blue team.
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On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything.
You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context.
EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win!
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On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything.
This argument, in the end, is fairly pointless because Kespa will not allow its players to freely participate in foreign tournaments. One can certainly say that EGTL players are more accomplished, while Kespa teams have "home field advantage" so to speak with their proleague. So there's never really a favorable battleground for a fair comparison.
Although next GSL could prove to be a good place to start. Where Roro, Shine, Reality, and Sola will all be participating this season.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win!
That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb.
Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game.
As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's logic. If you have a dice that's heavier on one side and you roll it 50 times, you'd start to see a pattern. If you roll it once it has absolutely NO MEANING WHATSOEVER. The dice is still heavier on one side but you're not gonna be able to tell because you only rolled it once.
Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. IM just didn't perform well as a team while they were smashing individual leagues. HerO, Taeja and Stephano are ALWAYS doing well in individual leagues. Does that mean they'll automatically be a sick good team? Fuck no.
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On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument.
LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant!
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant!
I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore.
Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try.
Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well
Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF
Also, if you're thinking that I'm somehow implying that Khan didn't deserve the win (which I think you are), I'm not. They deserved to win. They were the better team today which is what matters in a teamleague.
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You win the thread, TLEG best team
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On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF
I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF!
My entire problem with the EGTL fans who keep crying about how much better their players are is that quite simply you are NOT a better player when you consistently lose. It's like it doesn't matter what results ever come out, they're convinced of their team's innate superiority. It's one thing to be a rabid fan and root for them all the time. That's fine. But to always hear them whining about how their team's just THAT much better than all the rest, when they're really at the BOTTOM of the standings. It's just ridiculous. And so is your argument for why we should all be convinced EGTL is amazing but is just horrible at the PL format.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:40 rj rl wrote:
You win the thread, TLEG best team
I'll give you cookies if you can quote me actually saying that.
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And EGTL loses yet again
No surprise there, I said from the beginning that they were going to be one of the weakest teams.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF!
I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team...
Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point
And I never said the great individual players of EGTL make them a good team. I'm saying the EXACT OPPOSITE, WTF. I literally said "having great individual players doesn't benefit them in a teamleague".
A team that wants to do well in PL needs more than great individual players. That's what I've been saying the whole time, lol.
That's why I agreed with the first post I replied to, the one you're defending now. WHY are you defending a point against someone who agrees with it. WTTTTTTTFFFFFFF
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On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:
[quote]
Stephano
Taeja
Jaedong
JYP
Hero
-
Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma
And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point
No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not.
My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners.
Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose.
Edit: Especially nonsense statements like EGTL's players would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa. I assume you mean the A-teamers that are actually playing in PL when you say kespa, at which point I have to say you're insane. If they were that much better, they wouldn't be losing. It's exactly those kinds of statements I find ridiculous.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Why does every thread have to go there T_T
If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose.
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. I'm not arguing that all of EGTL are better players than everybody else. I'm saying that they have arguably the best lineup of individual top players in Taeja, HerO & Stephano and I'm also saying that it doesn't help them in a teamleague because they need an entire team to perform in order to win. Now, Taeja and Stephano haven't been playing for quite some time so you're basically relying on HerO to carry the team in a league that only lets him play once, twice if it goes to ace match.
The BW example is somewhat redundant because BW was WAY more figured out than SC2 is right now and BW was waaaay less volatile.
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On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:[quote] Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case.
You don't read very well.
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All the teams are really strong, basically every team has their ace players that are all closely matched. In the end this is a competition, one team is going to have to lose, even if they're all similar in strength. Yes, EG-TL has the talent to be first place, but all the teams have this talent. With the format of Bo1 games, there is too much volatility and therefore every team can win.
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lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less
WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard.
On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well.
I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players.
That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s.
Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well.
?
Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague?
Of course Samsung Khan deserved to win. Of course every team that wins against EGTL deserved their win. But taking those results and saying every player on EGTL is bad because they're not winning Bo1s is fucking dumb.
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I love all the bitching around here... delicious. While Samsung Khan just impresses again, with a 7 win streak! They're going insane... i absolutely love it. THAT's how you play proleague.
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On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard.
Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team.
You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim.
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On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context.
EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win!
That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague?
1 - Why? Care to counter argument?
2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues.
btw, IM is 1st in group 2 of IPTL premier division this season
IPTL 2013 S1
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim.
So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else.
I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is.
Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb.
Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game.
As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's maths. Statistics.
Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues.
IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
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On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy.
I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o
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On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:30 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
LOL yeah man! Good players lose! But they're still better! Everyone else is just too dumb to understand! An entire season of fail is just a build order loss!! Roro and Jangbi would wipe the floor with 95% of Kespa players in say a Bo100. That's maths! Depth doesn't matter in a team. Just one or two players who win every tournament! It's fucking brilliant! I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore. Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try. Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy?
Keep trying to use outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:15 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore.
Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try.
Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well
Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? Keep trying to find outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy.
Straw man. Answer the question
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:34 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I'm not even sure wtf you're arguing anymore.
Do you even read what I'm saying? Yes, better players will lose Bo1s. They are, however, more likely to win a series the more are being played. I suggest you take a dice and roll it one time. Then come back and say "LOL every number except 5 is bad because 5 won!". It's definitely possible that 5 has a higher chance than other numbers but you can't tell from just one try.
Because that's what you're saying. Other than that you're just spouting random sarcastic nonsense without making any real arguments except that "better players don't lose!!11!" which is simply dumb and wrong. So if that's all you have to say then... well
Of course depth matters in a teamleague but I never said otherwise, WTF. I never said EGTL was the better team. I'm saying that they have the better top individual players but that it doesn't benefit them as much in a teamleague. WTFWTFWTF I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o
Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!!
Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s.
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On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is.
Hey, you are becoming lost in your own arguments 8D
In this last post you said hero won 3 games and thats because hes an ace, so he´s good.
But at the same time you say that individual skill don´t mean wins.
Try to take a break, breath for a while and think about it.
But in the end, this discussion doesn´t matter anyway.
What´s important is wins, losses and who is the champion in the last game
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:16 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Hey, you are becoming lost in your own arguments 8D In this last post you said hero won 3 games and thats because hes an ace, so he´s good. But at the same time you say that individual skill don´t mean wins. Try to take a break, breath for a while and think about it. But in the end, this discussion doesn´t matter anyway. What´s important is wins, losses and who is the champion in the last game
I'm saying that individual skill doesn't mean wins for a team. It meant 3 kills for HerO which is great but it didn't help the team too much.
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On February 02 2013 00:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? Keep trying to find outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy. Straw man. Answer the question
Your question is a straw man. Now answer my answer.
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On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:43 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
I suggest you take a dice. And roll it for five weeks. And when it never comes up EGTL, come back and tell me how great they are LOL. A whole team of better players don't lose for an entire season of WINNER's League, which is simply a smart and right observation. MVP and Nestea don't make a team. DEPTH does. WTF! I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team... Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s.
When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:17 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team...
Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? Keep trying to find outliers to justify trends. I'm sure you'll find a lot of success with that strategy. Straw man. Answer the question Your question is a straw man. Now answer my answer.
My question is an example directly related to your argument. Am I gonna have to explain to you how it's not a straw man? Shouldn't be too hard to answer for you since you got it all figured out.
Mvp is the greatest WoL player of all time. But he always performed poorly in teamleagues. So if you looked at only his teamleague results, Mvp would have a negative winrate. That, according to your argument, would mean that he's bad. Meanwhile, he was the best individual player in the world. That means your thesis that teamleagues show skill as much as individual leagues or whatever you wanna call it is wrong.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
I didn't... say... EGTL was a good team...
Stop arguing against something I'm not even saying. IM had the best individual players in the world but was bad in teamleagues. EGTL has great individual players but is bad in this teamleague. Why are you even arguing about depth, I never said anything about depth. That was never even the point. Nothing you ever argued about was even the point No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not. My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners. Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average.
So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s?
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On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:53 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
No, you don't get it. There's no difference between "individual" and "team" players in SC2. I have no clue wtf you're on. It's a 1v1 game. Good players win their 1v1s consistently. Mediocre players don't. You can't argue a team has amazing players when that team's players keep losing. So, when you claim EGTL has amazing "individual" players, in essence you're claiming the team is amazing. When it's very much not.
My point is you have none. You've tried to create some kind of artificial division between PL and individual leagues, except that's never how its worked. In BW, the players winning the most in PL were nearly always the same ones winning the individual leagues. You know why? Because that's what winners do. There were a few exceptions, like Sea, but that's why Sea is a well-recognized name, because of his unusually lopsided performance. The others were called snipers because they were only good at one particular matchup or map. It's why snipers are not given the same level of respect as the bonjwas and league winners.
Until PL has 2v2 and 3v3 matches, you have no case. If EGTL had individually great players they would be winning. They're not and they don't. At least not right now. Do their players have the potential to be great? Yes. But you can't claim they're amazing when they continue to lose. That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s?
What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. I would even say Bo1s maybe matter more because every game is live or die situation.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s.
No, because the more games are played, the likelier it is that the better player wins. A Bo1 is over after one game. A Bo3 gives the loser two more chances to win the series. Imagine if a player called "X" has a 10% winrate vs player "Y". In other words, he statistically only wins 1/10 games. His chance to take a series is higher in a Bo1 format than in Bo3.
That's basic probability calculus. The more games are played, the likelier it is that player Y wins the series.
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On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. I would even say Bo1s maybe matter more because every game is live or die situation.
No its not. BO3 are much more complicated than bo1s. How do you think MVP beat Rain in BO5 series in GSL S4?
Think about it. If you still dont understand then maybe ill be kind enough to explain
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On February 02 2013 00:29 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. No, because the more games are played, the likelier it is that the better player wins. A Bo1 is over after one game. A Bo3 gives the loser two more chances to win the series. Imagine if a player called "X" has a 10% winrate vs player "Y". In other words, he statistically only wins 1/10 games. His chance to take a series is higher in a Bo1 format than in Bo3. That's a basic probability calculus.
Ofc, 3 Bo3s are better than 3 Bo1s, that's 9 games against 3 games. But when you have the same amount of games played, 3 Bo3s compared to 9 Bo1s, I would weigh more on 9 Bo1s. In proleague, players face each other constantly, not just once.
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On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say.
Lol you love talking about "individual skill". For that matter, Winnerleague (in which you cite Hero's 3 kills) is not a good benchmark because you dont know your opponents, hence volatile as fuck.
However, Proleague (and OSL, GSL from the playoff) IS. Rational speaking, the best condition for one player to show his 100% A-game is when maps & opponent are known (thats why Starleague playoff does that). Being unable to perform in the ideal condition many times means that you are ultimately the worse player.
Zenio? One session of beating the randomness doesnt make him good. Meanwhile going 2-5 in SPL settings is only better than his terran fellow.
Mvp is the greatest WoL player of all time. But he always performed poorly in teamleagues. So if you looked at only his teamleague results, Mvp would have a negative winrate. That, according to your argument, would mean that he's bad. Meanwhile, he was the best individual player in the world. That means your thesis that teamleagues show skill as much as individual leagues or whatever you wanna call it is wrong.
I think my argument answer for this. MVP at his peak would go 200-0 in GSTL if it's not winnerleague style. Gumiho might be the best "improvisation" player in GSTL but he couldnt do much in GSL. Think about that
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On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s.
Yeah, if you ignore silly stuff like mental strength, mind games, nerves, stamina, map choice/preparation (speshul tactiks)... You know, the stuff that makes champions.
Source: Mr. LWW Jae Dong
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 00:40 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say. Lol you love talking about "individual skill". For that matter, Winnerleague (in which you cite Hero's 3 kills) is not a good benchmark because you dont know your opponents, hence volatile as fuck. However, Proleague (and OSL, GSL from the playoff) IS. Rational speaking, the best condition for one player to show his 100% A-game is when maps & opponent are known (thats why Starleague playoff does that). Being unable to perform in the ideal condition many times means that you are ultimately the worse player. Zenio? One session of beating the randomness doesnt make him good. Meanwhile going 2-5 in SPL settings is only better than his terran fellow.
Actually the best condition for a player to show his absolute best is in as many games as possible with known opponents on known maps. GSL Bo7 finals for example.
Because that provides the statistical stability of the better player likelier winning the longer series while also providing the ability to extensively prepare for an opponent & the maps.
If you get blind countered by an arguably worse player than you once in a Bo1, you lose the whole series. Doesn't matter if you've studied your opponent and the map for weeks. If it happens once in a Bo7, you lose one map but might win the next 4 straight. In that case, it's a much more skill-indicative series than a Bo1.
Well, all these arguments are basically meant to say one thing: if EGTL performs poorly as a team, that doesn't automatically mean that the players are as bad as their team's results, especially seeing how most EGTL players have better results in individual leagues than in PL.
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On February 02 2013 00:41 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. Yeah, if you ignore silly stuff like mental strength, mind games, nerves, stamina, map choice/preparation (speshul tactiks)... You know, the stuff that makes champions. Source: Mr. LWW Jae Dong
Thank You sir, you saved my time writing the exact same thing. Some people just dont seem to get it lol
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Hey guys, just want to pop in here as a fan of TLEG! Just want to say well played by Khan, and to say we're not all crazy!
...Jesus, some people are stating WoL beta results as evidence TLEG prowess. My god, this must be what it's like to be a Leafs fan.
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On February 02 2013 00:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:40 Arceus wrote:On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say. Lol you love talking about "individual skill". For that matter, Winnerleague (in which you cite Hero's 3 kills) is not a good benchmark because you dont know your opponents, hence volatile as fuck. However, Proleague (and OSL, GSL from the playoff) IS. Rational speaking, the best condition for one player to show his 100% A-game is when maps & opponent are known (thats why Starleague playoff does that). Being unable to perform in the ideal condition many times means that you are ultimately the worse player. Zenio? One session of beating the randomness doesnt make him good. Meanwhile going 2-5 in SPL settings is only better than his terran fellow. Actually the best condition for a player to show his absolute best is in as many games as possible with known opponents on known maps. GSL Bo7 finals for example. Because that provides the statistical stability of the better player likelier winning the longer series while also providing the ability to extensively prepare for an opponent & the maps. If you get blind countered by an arguably worse player than you once in a Bo1, you lose the whole series. Doesn't matter if you've studied your opponent and the map for weeks. If it happens once in a Bo7, you lose one map but might win the next 4 straight. In that case, it's a much more skill-indicative series than a Bo1. Well, all these arguments are basically meant to say one thing: if EGTL performs poorly as a team, that doesn't automatically mean that the players are as bad as their team's results, especially seeing how most EGTL players have better results in individual leagues than in PL.
Well duh I mean can you seriously compare a bunch of foreigners + 3 or 4 GSL players throughout the brackets to an all-Korean teamleague. EGTL's best are good, most of the others are average at beat.
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lol. People implying that a Bo1 isnt volatile and unpredictable just because they know the opponent and map before hand.
This is what probably happens, while getting ready for a Bo1 like the ones in proleague. They look at the map, and the player. They look at how the player plays, on said maps. Then they'll prepare a specialized build, to try and best defeat that specific player, on that specific map. Guess what the other guy does? THE SAME THING.
So what has a good chance of happening is, both players will be preparing for each others normal styles. So neither of them will play quite normally because theyre both trying to pre-counter what they think the other will do. Its kind of all or nothing.
So thats why theres DEFINATLY a difference between teamleague Bo1 and individual league Bo3/5/7.
Some people are just better at reading others. In a long series, it won't matter as much. An upset can still be had since theres a finite number of games in the series, but generally the better player will win a longer series. A Bo1 is still largely up to chance, even when opponent and map is known before hand. Theres only so much adaptation and on the fly reacting you can do. EGTL has the talented players. I honestly think the coaches have no idea what-so-ever as to what to do, so thats why they're struggling. The other Proleague teams have been at this system and format for years. They know how to read teams and their players, and know what kind of builds to go for dependent on what the maps are like. EGTL has the sheer skill. They just need to refine their Proleague coaching and preperation. Which I feel like they're going to be behind in for probably another season, unless they bring in veteran Proleague coaches.
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Were any of the games close/entertaining? Didn't get to watch
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there is probably enough whine about EGTL performing underwhelming.
i just want to add some more.
often i read that EGTL got the best lineup in proleague, but if you look close, this isnt true.
(i dont want to say its the worst lineup)
the core of the team are zenio, puma, jd and jyp.
these are players you expect between code a and code b (i know jd is a legend, but its another game).
i would say jd & jyp doing surprisingly good but even so their records are 10-9 & 7-6
zenio & puma together got 2-11
now you cant replace these players easily. the backup players are thorzain & huk wich are not on the same level as koreans yet.
then there are the "expected to be" stronger players.
the story of hero is tricky. its ether bad luck or good mindgame from opponent teams but he mostly had to play PvP.
All his loses in round 1 & 3 are PvPs.
Taeja is doing his thing.
Stephano & Revival need more games.
But all these players are now in GSL* and iam sure their focus is on GSL wich makes them weaker choices for proleague and this is why the core of team has to put their shoulders to the wheel and i doubt they are strong enough to move EGTL in a position where people say "yes thats what i expected from the team with the best lineup".
(* zenio is back in code a too but it will be hard for him to stay)
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On February 02 2013 00:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:40 Arceus wrote:On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say. Lol you love talking about "individual skill". For that matter, Winnerleague (in which you cite Hero's 3 kills) is not a good benchmark because you dont know your opponents, hence volatile as fuck. However, Proleague (and OSL, GSL from the playoff) IS. Rational speaking, the best condition for one player to show his 100% A-game is when maps & opponent are known (thats why Starleague playoff does that). Being unable to perform in the ideal condition many times means that you are ultimately the worse player. Zenio? One session of beating the randomness doesnt make him good. Meanwhile going 2-5 in SPL settings is only better than his terran fellow. Actually the best condition for a player to show his absolute best is in as many games as possible with known opponents on known maps. GSL Bo7 finals for example. Because that provides the statistical stability of the better player likelier winning the longer series while also providing the ability to extensively prepare for an opponent & the maps. If you get blind countered by an arguably worse player than you once in a Bo1, you lose the whole series. Doesn't matter if you've studied your opponent and the map for weeks. If it happens once in a Bo7, you lose one map but might win the next 4 straight. In that case, it's a much more skill-indicative series than a Bo1. Well, all these arguments are basically meant to say one thing: if EGTL performs poorly as a team, that doesn't automatically mean that the players are as bad as their team's results, especially seeing how most EGTL players have better results in individual leagues than in PL.
invalid argument since none of the EGTL except Taeja/Hero ever played a bo5 sc2 in Starleague format (Zenio did some in open seasons or something but thats ancient history). And it's not like they are able to any time soon so Proleague with bi-weekly matches is a very good benchmark.
My conclusion is that in Korean standard (not weekend 3 days foreign tourneys), the performance of team EGTL correlates very well with their individuals' performance
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Is ThorZaIN practicing HoTS currently? Is that why he isn't used at all? At this point he has to have a similar record to PuMa and Zenio, so I don't see why they don't throw him out there otherwise. Taeja being injured really sucks for this team, and Stephano having conflicts with GSL does as well.
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On February 02 2013 01:23 Micromnky wrote:
lol. People implying that a Bo1 isnt volatile and unpredictable just because they know the opponent and map before hand.
This is what probably happens, while getting ready for a Bo1 like the ones in proleague. They look at the map, and the player. They look at how the player plays, on said maps. Then they'll prepare a specialized build, to try and best defeat that specific player, on that specific map. Guess what the other guy does? THE SAME THING.
So what has a good chance of happening is, both players will be preparing for each others normal styles. So neither of them will play quite normally because theyre both trying to pre-counter what they think the other will do.
So thats why theres DEFINATLY a difference between teamleague Bo1 and individual league Bo3/5/7.
Hold up friend.
You think they don't do that in a Bo3/5/7 in GSL? Because if you do, you're wrong. They almost always use prepared builds in GSL (with one exception being MVP's proxy 11/11 against Squirtle in the finals that one season). If you don't then your whole point there is moot.
Though to be honest I agree, there "definitely" is a difference between BO1 and BO3/5/7. But it's not because both players arn't preparing builds.
Furthermore, you need to think of teamleagues as BO7. If an entire team loses to cheese or any other strategy, then there's a problem there. Today Khan was the better team. There may be hope that we will one day feast upon the supple flesh of vengeance, and that will taste all the sweeter if we admit that our players keep losing because they arn't playing better than their opponents.
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God, Proleague is so unpredictable.
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On February 02 2013 01:34 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:49 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:40 Arceus wrote:On February 02 2013 00:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:05 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. Yeah, almost as bad as the guy arguing EGTL's losses in winner's league were due to their aces not getting more than once chance to win for their team. You are just way too rabid of a fanboy. EGTL's aces are strong, but so are the aces of other teams in PL like Grumbels said. You're way overestimating their skill and that's why you find yourself needing to defend your team's abysmal performance when to everyone else it's plain as day that your players are simply not as good as you claim. So who 3 killed Samsung Khan again? Oh right, HerO. Why did EGTL lose again? Oh right, because the rest of the lineup didn't perform. The team overall might be worse than the rest in PL, whatever. I'm not saying anything else. I don't even care about their performance, lol. All I'm saying is that the hate against their players is fucking retarded as hell because teamleagues don't show individual skill as much as individual leagues because you, as an individual player, only get a smaller amount of games which makes it easier for you to lose. That's how it is. Zenio for example might have a bad record in PL but hey, he made Code A which is something most kespa player can't say for themselves. That doesn't automatically mean that he's better of course. But he can't be as horrible as his PL statistics say. Lol you love talking about "individual skill". For that matter, Winnerleague (in which you cite Hero's 3 kills) is not a good benchmark because you dont know your opponents, hence volatile as fuck. However, Proleague (and OSL, GSL from the playoff) IS. Rational speaking, the best condition for one player to show his 100% A-game is when maps & opponent are known (thats why Starleague playoff does that). Being unable to perform in the ideal condition many times means that you are ultimately the worse player. Zenio? One session of beating the randomness doesnt make him good. Meanwhile going 2-5 in SPL settings is only better than his terran fellow. Actually the best condition for a player to show his absolute best is in as many games as possible with known opponents on known maps. GSL Bo7 finals for example. Because that provides the statistical stability of the better player likelier winning the longer series while also providing the ability to extensively prepare for an opponent & the maps. If you get blind countered by an arguably worse player than you once in a Bo1, you lose the whole series. Doesn't matter if you've studied your opponent and the map for weeks. If it happens once in a Bo7, you lose one map but might win the next 4 straight. In that case, it's a much more skill-indicative series than a Bo1. Well, all these arguments are basically meant to say one thing: if EGTL performs poorly as a team, that doesn't automatically mean that the players are as bad as their team's results, especially seeing how most EGTL players have better results in individual leagues than in PL. invalid argument since none of the EGTL except Taeja/Hero ever played a bo5 sc2 in Starleague format (Zenio did some in open seasons or something but thats ancient history). And it's not like they are able to any time soon so Proleague with bi-weekly matches is a very good benchmark. My conclusion is that in Korean standard (not weekend 3 days foreign tourneys), the performance of team EGTL correlates very well with their individuals' performance
Well no. JYP, HuK and I think Puma too all have. The vast VAST majority of Kespa players have not however.
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On February 02 2013 01:43 Zygno wrote:
God, Proleague is so unpredictable.
Actually it's pretty predictible. EG-TL almost always loses.
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On February 02 2013 01:45 Zzoram wrote:Actually it's pretty predictible. EG-TL almost always loses.
I'm not talking about EG-TL specifically. Proleague in general is very difficult to predict, because nearly every team can beat every other. Even EG-TL, if they'd have all their players (Stephano, Taeja) available.
I'm really disappointed about HerO, hasn't been so good as of now. He really needs to improve his PvP, his other matchups are way better.
Sending Huk or Thorzain instead of Zenio/PuMa would be a good move in my opinion, because both of them must be really depressed about their losing streak and I don't think their better skillwise than our foreigners. I guess Huk/TZ are probably going full HotS and they're time will come when HotS comes out.
EG-TL just has to kinda survive until Round 4...
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Wouldn't be a good Khan win if the losing team's fans weren't avidly looking for excuses and/or whining
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On February 02 2013 01:57 Zygno wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:45 Zzoram wrote:On February 02 2013 01:43 Zygno wrote:
God, Proleague is so unpredictable. Actually it's pretty predictible. EG-TL almost always loses. I'm not talking about EG-TL specifically. Proleague in general is very difficult to predict, because nearly every team can beat every other. Even EG-TL, if they'd have all their players (Stephano, Taeja) available. I'm really disappointed about HerO, hasn't been so good as of now. He really needs to improve his PvP, his other matchups are way better. Sending Huk or Thorzain instead of Zenio/PuMa would be a good move in my opinion, because both of them must be really depressed about their losing streak and I don't think their better skillwise than our foreigners. I guess Huk/TZ are probably going full HotS and they're time will come when HotS comes out. EG-TL just has to kinda survive until Round 4...
Keep in mind, the other teams have entire B-Teams preparing for HoTS. It might not go as well as we hope
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On February 02 2013 01:36 Swords wrote:
Is ThorZaIN practicing HoTS currently? Is that why he isn't used at all? At this point he has to have a similar record to PuMa and Zenio, so I don't see why they don't throw him out there otherwise. Taeja being injured really sucks for this team, and Stephano having conflicts with GSL does as well.
Well, Stephano won't be having any more conflicts with the GSL. He's already seeded for the Team 8 match though.
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On February 02 2013 01:57 Kergy wrote:Wouldn't be a good Khan win if the losing team's fans weren't avidly looking for excuses and/or whining
Get it Kergy! Preach!
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On February 02 2013 01:45 Zzoram wrote:Actually it's pretty predictible. EG-TL almost always loses.
Damn, sniped. But yeah, I think Sirscoots and Nazgul have an anti-team that consists of their entire roster. This entire adventure was an elaborate plan to win FPL.
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On February 02 2013 01:36 TheDougler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:23 Micromnky wrote:
lol. People implying that a Bo1 isnt volatile and unpredictable just because they know the opponent and map before hand.
This is what probably happens, while getting ready for a Bo1 like the ones in proleague. They look at the map, and the player. They look at how the player plays, on said maps. Then they'll prepare a specialized build, to try and best defeat that specific player, on that specific map. Guess what the other guy does? THE SAME THING.
So what has a good chance of happening is, both players will be preparing for each others normal styles. So neither of them will play quite normally because theyre both trying to pre-counter what they think the other will do.
So thats why theres DEFINATLY a difference between teamleague Bo1 and individual league Bo3/5/7.
Hold up friend. You think they don't do that in a Bo3/5/7 in GSL? Because if you do, you're wrong. They almost always use prepared builds in GSL (with one exception being MVP's proxy 11/11 against Squirtle in the finals that one season). If you don't then your whole point there is moot. Though to be honest I agree, there "definitely" is a difference between BO1 and BO3/5/7. But it's not because both players arn't preparing builds. Furthermore, you need to think of teamleagues as BO7. If an entire team loses to cheese or any other strategy, then there's a problem there. Today Khan was the better team. There may be hope that we will one day feast upon the supple flesh of vengeance, and that will taste all the sweeter if we admit that our players keep losing because they arn't playing better than their opponents.
Oh no I know they do it in GSL Bo3/5/7 but it's not the same as a Bo1 simply because both players have a chance to react and shift their strategy after each game to better adapt. In the Proleague it's a one shot deal. That's where the difference lies.
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On February 02 2013 01:36 Swords wrote:
Is ThorZaIN practicing HoTS currently? Is that why he isn't used at all? At this point he has to have a similar record to PuMa and Zenio, so I don't see why they don't throw him out there otherwise. Taeja being injured really sucks for this team, and Stephano having conflicts with GSL does as well.
That's nothing more than a limitation set by the player themselves. There are many other players who like to play in all the majors instead of focusing on one thing.
On February 02 2013 02:06 Micromnky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:36 TheDougler wrote:On February 02 2013 01:23 Micromnky wrote:
lol. People implying that a Bo1 isnt volatile and unpredictable just because they know the opponent and map before hand.
This is what probably happens, while getting ready for a Bo1 like the ones in proleague. They look at the map, and the player. They look at how the player plays, on said maps. Then they'll prepare a specialized build, to try and best defeat that specific player, on that specific map. Guess what the other guy does? THE SAME THING.
So what has a good chance of happening is, both players will be preparing for each others normal styles. So neither of them will play quite normally because theyre both trying to pre-counter what they think the other will do.
So thats why theres DEFINATLY a difference between teamleague Bo1 and individual league Bo3/5/7.
Hold up friend. You think they don't do that in a Bo3/5/7 in GSL? Because if you do, you're wrong. They almost always use prepared builds in GSL (with one exception being MVP's proxy 11/11 against Squirtle in the finals that one season). If you don't then your whole point there is moot. Though to be honest I agree, there "definitely" is a difference between BO1 and BO3/5/7. But it's not because both players arn't preparing builds. Furthermore, you need to think of teamleagues as BO7. If an entire team loses to cheese or any other strategy, then there's a problem there. Today Khan was the better team. There may be hope that we will one day feast upon the supple flesh of vengeance, and that will taste all the sweeter if we admit that our players keep losing because they arn't playing better than their opponents. Oh no I know they do it in GSL Bo3/5/7 but it's not the same as a Bo1 simply because both players have a chance to react and shift their strategy after each game to better adapt. In the Proleague it's a one shot deal. That's where the difference lies.
There are very few exceptions when it comes to individual performance and PL performance when you look at the history of BW. Now that there are so many tournaments of course a lot of people are going to complain about bo1's. This isn't sorcery.
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Puma going for the record of most losses in proleague.
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T.O.P
469 Posts
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On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's logic. If you have a dice that's heavier on one side and you roll it 50 times, you'd start to see a pattern. If you roll it once it has absolutely NO MEANING WHATSOEVER. The dice is still heavier on one side but you're not gonna be able to tell because you only rolled it once. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. IM just didn't perform well as a team while they were smashing individual leagues. HerO, Taeja and Stephano are ALWAYS doing well in individual leagues. Does that mean they'll automatically be a sick good team? Fuck no.
wtf am I reading? Stephano/Hero/Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in a Bo5?? And you know this how? By watching them losing BO1 all the time? That's the "logic" you're proving?
Seriously people need to stop making excuses and realize the fact that stephano/hero/taeja are not that special comparing to the Kespa players. They're solid mid-tier players and that's all.
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On February 02 2013 02:48 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's logic. If you have a dice that's heavier on one side and you roll it 50 times, you'd start to see a pattern. If you roll it once it has absolutely NO MEANING WHATSOEVER. The dice is still heavier on one side but you're not gonna be able to tell because you only rolled it once. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. IM just didn't perform well as a team while they were smashing individual leagues. HerO, Taeja and Stephano are ALWAYS doing well in individual leagues. Does that mean they'll automatically be a sick good team? Fuck no. wtf am I reading? Stephano/Hero/Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in a Bo5?? And you know this how? By watching them losing BO1 all the time? That's the "logic" you're proving? Seriously people need to stop making excuses and realize the fact that stephano/hero/taeja are not that special comparing to the Kespa players. They're solid mid-tier players and that's all.
No, these players are clearly top level, but they're not really ahead of the KeSPA either
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On February 02 2013 02:31 sitromit wrote:
Puma going for the record of most losses in proleague.
this o.O. He is 0-6, before proleague began i thought he would be one of the most important players for EGTL
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On February 02 2013 02:48 chosenkerrigan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:18 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players. That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything. You're only as good as your last game. Listing a bunch of old achievements is meaningless. Especially when last year the kespa players were playing BW. Most of the kespa players didn't even understand how the game worked when they got knocked out of GSL. It's only in the past month that JangBi said he learned what protoss is supposed to do in late game. Your examples don't make any sense in that context. EGTL's players aren't good. That's why they lose. Simple as that. Results are what matter and when EGTL plays their results end in LOSSES. EGTL doesn't have better individual players. It's not like PL has 3v3 matches. If their players were better, they would win! That's a dumb argument. Simply dumb. Being better doesn't mean you're gonna win in a Bo1. Like, if you gave me one game vs Jangbi and I got a lucky build order win, am I better than him? No? Well, according to your logic I would be because I won the game. As it is, Stephano, HerO and Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in say a Bo5. The more games you play, the closer you get to seeing who's better. The fewer games you play, the more random it becomes. That's logic. If you have a dice that's heavier on one side and you roll it 50 times, you'd start to see a pattern. If you roll it once it has absolutely NO MEANING WHATSOEVER. The dice is still heavier on one side but you're not gonna be able to tell because you only rolled it once. Again, when Mvp and Nestea won every tournament in the world but IM bombed out of teamleagues, were the IM players bad? It's a fucking dumb argument. IM just didn't perform well as a team while they were smashing individual leagues. HerO, Taeja and Stephano are ALWAYS doing well in individual leagues. Does that mean they'll automatically be a sick good team? Fuck no. wtf am I reading? Stephano/Hero/Taeja would wipe the floor with 90% of Kespa players in a Bo5?? And you know this how? By watching them losing BO1 all the time? That's the "logic" you're proving? Seriously people need to stop making excuses and realize the fact that stephano/hero/taeja are not that special comparing to the Kespa players. They're solid mid-tier players and that's all.
Taeja was 6-3 before he got injured. Which puts him in the top tier.
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Honestly, can't understand how EG-TL expects wins if they keep throwing out trash like Puma, Zenio, and Huk.
User was warned for this post
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On February 02 2013 03:11 LakseWim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 02:31 sitromit wrote:
Puma going for the record of most losses in proleague. this o.O. He is 0-6, before proleague began i thought he would be one of the most important players for EGTL
He is. Which is unfortunate because you need your key contributors to WIN in order to have a chance at being a strong team. If Puma were to all of a sudden go on a winning streak, all other things staying the same, EGTL would be much stronger.
Of course, that's probably not going to happen. EGTL's best hope at this point is to take advantage of the change to HotS next season to qualify for the post season.
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Thumbs up for the believers who had Turn in main team
Turn vs Stats 2-14-12 never forget
EGTL pretty clearly does not have the depth everyone thought they had going into the season
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there has to be a coaching or practice problem at this point.
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http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statistics
if we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training).
And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please 
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On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please
I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro.
Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10.
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On February 02 2013 00:25 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:18 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 02 2013 00:16 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:14 Dodgin wrote:On February 02 2013 00:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 00:06 Taipoka wrote:On February 02 2013 00:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 23:58 Arceus wrote:
lol at all those defenders. If you failed a bo1 with PRESET map AND opponent, you are bad. I mean cmon just one known map, one known opponent, days to prepare. Theres really no excuse if you cant do that, repeatedly no less WTF, silliest argument I've ever heard. On February 01 2013 23:56 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
That's the thing though, that's wrong. It's simply wrong. There IS a difference between individual leagues and teamleagues. That's why I brought up the example of IM which had, without the shadow of a doubt, the greatest individual players of SC2 but always lost in teamleagues. Why? Unless you can answer that question, you're the one who has no case. You don't read very well. ? Why don't you answer about IM. Why didn't IM win every teamleague? 1 - Why? Care to counter argument? 2 - you don´t see IM losing to everyone im team leagues. IM got all killed by QXC back when Mvp and Nestea were the best players in the world. How is that possible if amazing individual players automatically mean that a team will do well, according to that other guy? iirc the QXC all kill was 3 B teamers and then Mvp as the last guy. I really think you should just give up this argument by the way ;o Mvp was the best player in the world, how could he possibly lose a Bo1?!?! Impossible!!! Yeah I'll give up soon. People just love to hate on player who lose Bo1s. When you have a losing record on 20 Bo1s, ofc you are not a better player compared to average. So you're saying a losing record in 20 Bo1s matters as much as about a positive winrate in individual leagues with Bo3s, Bo5s and Bo7s? What? don't get your point. Why shouldn't it matter the same? Bo3 are just 3 Bo1s. I would even say Bo1s maybe matter more because every game is live or die situation.
I think Bo1 is actually much less random than Bo3/5, unless there is a really really long time to prepare. I don't think most players can adequately prepare for that many games on short notice like in MLG or IEM. In this format (non winners league), everyone has time to prepare for every eventuality in their game. If they lose to something, it means they didn't take a possible move by their opponent into account when devising their strategy. I think if both players have a ton of time to prepare though, then Bo5 is definitely less random.
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Stop putting Puma...he is like 0-7 in Pro League
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Regardless of what the reason is, EG-TL needs to shape up. It doesn't matter if they're two teams or a hundred teams smushed together. It doesn't matter how many foreigners or stars or whatever they're stacking on their team. It doesn't matter if their opponents have prepared macro builds, cheeses, or a bear trap hidden in the booth to hinder the EG-TL players from playing. The point is, they're a team competing in a team competition and they need to put in even more effort than the KeSPA teams to play catch-up. As professionals, there's little excuse for fluctuating in performance so much.
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On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10.
When was the last time we even got to an Ace match?
HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well.
The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned.
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On February 02 2013 04:49 ymir233 wrote:
Regardless of what the reason is, EG-TL needs to shape up.
...
As professionals, there's little excuse for fluctuating in performance so much.
I think it's pretty simple. Our best shot is to get Taeja, Stephano, HerO, and Revival in the lineup as often as possible. There aren't good enough reasons for them NOT to be in every single match. I'd like to see more Thorzain and Huk, too, as long as they're in good shape.
I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.
The other thing that the top calibre players like HerO need to do is just play more standard. They're actually a step above all the other Kespa players except for a few aces, like Rain, maybe Soulkey/Innovation, etc. It was gut wrenching to see HerO lose after his cheese-vs-cheese, and even then, he showed how amazing a player he is by even prolonging the game that long.
In summary: @EGtrotRC (the EG-TL coach) should just keep putting Taeja, HerO, Stephano, and Revival in the lineup every single game and get the first three to play a bit more standard/safe. Even a greedy Kespa player who gets an econ advantage early on is not going to have a high chance of beating safe play out of Taeja/HerO/Stephano.
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Embarassing performance by EG-TL. They were so outplayed it was just sad to witness.
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wow, EGTL got smacked pretty hard.
Damn, KHAN is in beast mode nowadays.
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I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.
Yeah man, definitely don't buy into taeja's problems. especially because it's not like he ever tweeted a picture of a half-dozen needles sticking in his wrist...
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On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned.
Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like.
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On February 02 2013 05:13 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match.
Yeah man, definitely don't buy into taeja's problems. especially because it's not like he ever tweeted a picture of a half-dozen needles sticking in his wrist...
Yea, and it's not like Stephano was at the GSL studio at the same time as Proleague, nah definitely not.
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Wow, even Turn won his match. Thanks EGTL for sending out Puma!
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On February 02 2013 04:56 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:49 ymir233 wrote:
Regardless of what the reason is, EG-TL needs to shape up.
...
As professionals, there's little excuse for fluctuating in performance so much. I think it's pretty simple. Our best shot is to get Taeja, Stephano, HerO, and Revival in the lineup as often as possible. There aren't good enough reasons for them NOT to be in every single match. I'd like to see more Thorzain and Huk, too, as long as they're in good shape. I don't buy all the excuses, such as Taeja's wrist problems or Stephano preparing for Code S. Taeja just played 3 BO3's, was it, the other day in Code S and advanced to the next round. He looked in great shape. Stephano - well, I haven't watched last night's matches yet, but he's not injured. Proleague is just ONE MAP per match, and only TWO matches per week. Put Taeja and Stephano in there. You don't need Taeja to be practicing dozens and dozens of games to prep for that one map for him to STILL be in better shape than 95% of the Kespa players. And it wouldn't kill Stephano to practice half a dozen games on that map to prep for the match. The other thing that the top calibre players like HerO need to do is just play more standard. They're actually a step above all the other Kespa players except for a few aces, like Rain, maybe Soulkey/Innovation, etc. It was gut wrenching to see HerO lose after his cheese-vs-cheese, and even then, he showed how amazing a player he is by even prolonging the game that long. In summary: @EGtrotRC (the EG-TL coach) should just keep putting Taeja, HerO, Stephano, and Revival in the lineup every single game and get the first three to play a bit more standard/safe. Even a greedy Kespa player who gets an econ advantage early on is not going to have a high chance of beating safe play out of Taeja/HerO/Stephano.
Don't kid yourself. Flash did all kill EGTL (Taeja included). At this point they even have Stephano figured out on Pro League. So, I wouldn't hold my breath for those expectations. Also, we all know what kind of player jD can be but truth is, he's not getting that Kespa level of training like the teams he's playing against are.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like.
Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't.
But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad.
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Samsung Khan also went 1-6 in that round, with another all-kill by Woongjin.
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On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad.
What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH.
This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1.
Wondering if you're just playing dumb
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On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb
Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad?
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man EGTL is really suffering without Taeja/Stephano...
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad?
So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play.
But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions.
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This is getting kinda embarrassing for EGTL
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So much butthurt in this thread
Can't we all just play nice, agree that EGTL sucks, and move on?
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strong denial in this thread.
the results speak for themselves. egtl at the bottom and not trending upwards, despite all fanboy excuses.
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On February 01 2013 23:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:02 SamsungStar wrote:On February 01 2013 21:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 01 2013 21:01 NightOfTheDead wrote:On February 01 2013 20:55 Zeon0 wrote:
TL need another player in Korea so EGTL has more options. Maybe send Snute over there? Stephano Taeja Jaedong JYP Hero - Huk, Zenio, Thorzain, Puma And they need more players to send out? More options? Really? Not many teams can boast such a lineup actually, and most of these players were playing from beta. Has something to do with Kespa training and preparation. Why does every thread have to go there T_T If it was an individual league, the EGTL players would probably score better results than 90% of the kespa players. But it's not, this is a team league. Different format, different preparation. Different skills required. I kind of agree with you but that's not something only kespa teams are capable of Right, that's why EG did so well in winner's league. What a crock of doodoo. The team is just bad. There's no hidden reason for it. There's no need to make excuses. In other news, KHAN wins again Lol. You could argue that the "lower half" of EGTL isn't top tier. Then again, Zenio made Code A while tons of hyped kespa players didn't. HerO has 3 tournament wins under his belt + GSL Ro4 & Ro8 last year and a great performance at IPL5 that kinda fell under the radar because zerg suffocated the whole tournament. Taeja has won multiple tournaments and all killed multiple things and is currently performing well in GSL even though his wrists are in bad shape. Stephano has mulitple tournament wins and is always performing well. I wasn't arguing that EGTL was a good team. At least read the post correctly. I said INDIVIDUAL LEAGUE = GSL, MLG, etc. HerO, Taeja, Stephano would place higher at individual tournaments than 90% of the kespa players.That doesn't mean they'll perform well in PL. You could argue that the team is bad, whatever. What I'm saying is that EGTL has better individual players than most other teams but that it doesn't necessarily benefit them in a teamleague format like this, especially with Bo1s. Same reason why IM wasn't winning everything.
After seeing Jaedong lose, I can at least enjoy a little comic relief here.
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Anyone know why there's no pro-league match tonight?
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Is this happening and just not on the calendar? If so in how long?
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On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions.
Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal.
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The whining in this thread fits the cheese in the games quite nicely.
Unfortunately, the fact is that the teams have switched roles. Samsung Khan started the season as a bottom feeder but somehow they've clawed all the back to being a respectable team. EGTL started off as a respectable team but somehow they're sinking to the bottom.
It's not just a matter of getting one or two players to be productive. They're supposed to be one of the deeper teams in Proleague but everyone is underperforming.
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On February 02 2013 10:58 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:30 sacade wrote:http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012-2013_Proleague/Statisticsif we look at the win rate, EGTL has 5 players who are above 50%. The same as KT and Woongjin Stars and more than other teams. The problems are that we almost never see the best players (Stephano and Taeja) and I don't think that the team has enough preparation (According to liquipedia EGTL is the team with the less coachs and I read somewhere HerO complains about finding partner for training). And it's a foreign team, Most of fans want to see wins and foreigners play. Stop sending Puma please I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro. Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions. Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal.
Well it might help if you were more clear with your posts lol
I mean, first you say 'zomg no ace for egtl thats why they lose'
Then it's "yaya check out roro and jangbi, pimps~ o and ya I remember when EGTL 4-0'd Samsung keke all you suckers thinking they're bad"
Then "dude wtf are you dumb how does that say that they aren't bad", even though you're the one that mentioned that they beat Samsung once and the other guy was saying that it didn't mean anything since samsung was dumber than a rock....
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On February 02 2013 11:39 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 10:58 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:On February 02 2013 04:33 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
I don't know why there's this much analysis into quite a simple problem: EGTL doesn't have a reliable Ace. Look at Khan's team score. They're 8-8 with -9 in match points LOL. But they're on a crazy win streak. Why? Two strong aces: Jangbi and Roro.
Who is EGTL's ace in the hole? I don't see one. And that's why their match score is the same as Khan's yet they're 6-10. When was the last time we even got to an Ace match? HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well. The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions. Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal. Well it might help if you were more clear with your posts lol I mean, first you say 'zomg no ace for egtl thats why they lose' Then it's "yaya check out roro and jangbi, pimps~ o and ya I remember when EGTL 4-0'd Samsung keke all you suckers thinking they're bad" Then "dude wtf are you dumb how does that say that they aren't bad", even though you're the one that mentioned that they beat Samsung once and the other guy was saying that it didn't mean anything since samsung was dumber than a rock....
I'm sure a lot of things seem obscure when you can't read. Or make coherent summaries. I clearly stated in round 1 Samsung players didn't even understand the game yet. Which, if you have any grasp on logic, explains why they performed so poorly in round 1. Round 2 and now Round 3, they performed exceptionally well. And it was on the strength of their aces, hence so many 4-3 wins. It's really not that hard to follow. But somehow you managed to veer off track. Bravo.
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Roro losing against Stephano...gah that kills my BW heart. Getting depressed for EGTL at this stage.
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On February 02 2013 11:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 11:39 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 02 2013 10:58 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 04:49 Jacmert wrote:
[quote]
When was the last time we even got to an Ace match?
HerO, Taeja, and Stephano are good enough to be our Aces. Revival could be argued to be good enough, as well.
The real problem - I think - is that we keep putting Zenio, Puma, and to a lesser extent JYP out in the lineup ahead of the first four I mentioned. Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions. Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal. Well it might help if you were more clear with your posts lol I mean, first you say 'zomg no ace for egtl thats why they lose' Then it's "yaya check out roro and jangbi, pimps~ o and ya I remember when EGTL 4-0'd Samsung keke all you suckers thinking they're bad" Then "dude wtf are you dumb how does that say that they aren't bad", even though you're the one that mentioned that they beat Samsung once and the other guy was saying that it didn't mean anything since samsung was dumber than a rock.... I'm sure a lot of things seem obscure when you can't read. Or make coherent summaries. I clearly stated in round 1 Samsung players didn't even understand the game yet. Which, if you have any grasp on logic, explains why they performed so poorly in round 1. Round 2 and now Round 3, they performed exceptionally well. And it was on the strength of their aces, hence so many 4-3 wins. It's really not that hard to follow. But somehow you managed to veer off track. Bravo.
lol the fuck is your issue dude?
Sorry if I interpreted this But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. as sarcastic and got the wrong impression, but it sure seems like you were saying that EGTL was actually good in that post.
Sorry I disturbed you during this time of the month, i guess
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Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on?
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RorO ?? Jaedong (Interestingly, wouldn't be surprised if either one rolled the other one)
Reality < Zenio (Qualified for code A. Look at all the people who didn't qualify. I want to believe!)
TurN > PuMa (Puma not capable of winning)
Stork ?? JYP (Both just kinda..eh)
JangBi < HerO (I think this is a clear favorite)
Shine < Revival (Just kinda think Revival is better)
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On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on?
I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well.
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On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well.
Cuz they have to play Puma and Zenio instead of Taeja and Stephano. If they had an in-shape taeja and Stephano since the first week they would be doing much better I'm certain. Zenio is a sure loss unless he gets ZvZ and puma is a sure loss period. Combine that with questionable decisionmaking when it comes to ace players and you see why they have such a bad record.
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first step for delusional EGTL fans is to admit their players are not exactly hot stuff. whether in proleague, individual league, fantasy league or the baseball league, perhaps only taeja can be qualified as pretty good.
Even teams such as team 8, who really have no outstanding players at the start of the season, have made the best out of their situation...and found that with sufficient practice and commitment, even no-name players can start winning consistently.
Or you can keep on trying to convince yourself that it's the coach, lineups, cheese games, macro games, "saving" strategies for GSL, bad maps, terrible luck, etc., yes, that must be it.
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On February 02 2013 17:05 Mohdoo wrote:
RorO ?? Jaedong (Interestingly, wouldn't be surprised if either one rolled the other one)
Reality < Zenio (Qualified for code A. Look at all the people who didn't qualify. I want to believe!)
TurN > PuMa (Puma not capable of winning)
Stork ?? JYP (Both just kinda..eh)
JangBi < HerO (I think this is a clear favorite)
Shine < Revival (Just kinda think Revival is better)
bro... i got sum bad nuwz...
you are only right on turn>puma
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Just put Taeja, HerO, Stephano and JaeDong at first 4 players. Even if they lose their games, its still better shot than Zenio and "0-wins" PuMa.
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Come on, let´s look at it from a different perspective:
EGTL is playing in fu**ing PROLEAGUE!! Who would have thought that this might be true some day two or three years ago? I am pretty sure that almost nobody did! To quote Gandalf: "There was never much hope; Only a fool could hope."
Let us just be grateful for the possibility to see "our" team, the team that represents the foreign community like no other teams, fight against the legends of BW on a daily basis! Everytime I switch on SPL there is a match going on between two players we used to admire and look up to in the oldern days. It is just pure awesomeness to see EGTL compete in this scenario.
Of course, many people thought that EGTL would crush the BW teams based on the "having played sc2 for longer"-advantage. I guess BW teams make up for that with dedication, passion and a precise practice regime.
The first time around should be seen as an experience. Getting to know PL, the pressure in the booth. PL has it´sown rules. And in a season, there will always be a "favorite" that chokes. Just give this team some time to get used to PL and just enjoy the fact, that EGTL is going head to head wit h teams like SKT T!, KT Rolster or KHAN!
This alone should be enough. I know it is for me
EGTL fighting!
ps: Yeah, maybe they aren´t fielding their best players. But still, there is a reason for everything and we can´t look behind the scenes. Let´s cheer for everybody! They fought hard for their dream and maybe if we stop to look at everything with a negative attitude, things will turn around 
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On February 02 2013 17:30 Ch3rry wrote:Just put Taeja, HerO, Stephano and JaeDong at first 4 players. Even if they lose their games, its still better shot than Zenio and "0-wins" PuMa.
you HAVE to play puma, if he does best in the inhouse ranking matches, then he must brake his proleague losstreak.
You have to build the whole team and up, else you will end up even worse.
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On February 02 2013 17:49 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 17:30 Ch3rry wrote:Just put Taeja, HerO, Stephano and JaeDong at first 4 players. Even if they lose their games, its still better shot than Zenio and "0-wins" PuMa. you HAVE to play puma, if he does best in the inhouse ranking matches, then he must brake his proleague losstreak. You have to build the whole team and up, else you will end up even worse.
who says puma does best in the inhouse matches?
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or else they'd play thorzain?
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Well I have to give it to HerO, he really put up a fight from an unwinnable position, you could see his confidence from the last time he held an impossible proxy 2-gate with essentially nothing.
I hope that with the coming of HotS and the return of Stephano, now that he is out from the remainder of GSL, things might look a bit better, but still Puma and Zenio need to improve a lot in order to give some consistency to the team.
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On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well.
I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league.
Just some armchair analysis.
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Worst part about this is that I'm less and less interested in watching PL at all. I was a BW SKT fan and kept watching their games even through their horrible slump a few years back, but I'm no SC2 EGTL fan, I just started watching because I expected them to deliver exciting games. But recently I haven't been watching live as much and when a day or two later I open the LR thread it's always EGTL losing and most games voted as not recommended. Ugh. At least this week the final PvP was fun. :D
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On February 02 2013 17:49 Facultyadjutant wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 17:30 Ch3rry wrote:Just put Taeja, HerO, Stephano and JaeDong at first 4 players. Even if they lose their games, its still better shot than Zenio and "0-wins" PuMa. you HAVE to play puma, if he does best in the inhouse ranking matches, then he must brake his proleague losstreak. You have to build the whole team and up, else you will end up even worse.
Or cut a guy that can't perform loose and pick up some other unsigned up and comer.
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis.
I agree with this.
What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue.
In other news, Jangbi didn't make Code A while Zenio did. An individual league, you know... where people focus on showing their skill as an individual player, as the name already suggests. While that doesn't mean he's the better player, it also isn't exactly screaming "ZENIO IS BAD!!!" like some idiots are.
Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck.
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On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue.
Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist.
Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck
Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Show nested quote +Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison
You should scan the amount of posts in this thread saying "EGTL is bad" or the amount of posts that are nothing but player bashing. Nowhere did I say that EGTL was a good team, I'm just saying that people should stop hating on their players and why. Also, wtf does defending players have to do with butthurt? I'm defending the players, not the team. The team is performing poorly. They might be a bad team, yeah. But they're doing just as well (or even better) than most Khan players in individual leagues. So taking this result and arguing that Khan simply has better players is completely dumb.
It's not a completely similar example but you get my point. What if EGTL isn't good at practicing together or preparing for matches as a team? The players might be WAY better at preparing for a BoX series. I'm not saying that that's the case, just that it MIGHT be and that there's more to it than "EGTL players are bad". All I'm saying with that example is that there's way different factors involved in playing as a team compared to playing as an individual player.
If you want a better example, try team IM. But that has been avoiding so many times already, I can't even believe it. Were Mvp and Nestea bad in 2011 while IM was doing poorly in teamleagues?
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On February 02 2013 17:30 Ch3rry wrote:Just put Taeja, HerO, Stephano and JaeDong at first 4 players. Even if they lose their games, its still better shot than Zenio and "0-wins" PuMa.
Why is everybody forgetting Thorzain? As far as i know, he actually won something in PL, and perhaps he is not going to be in Korea forever, so why not send him instead of Puma?
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On February 02 2013 17:46 0dem wrote:Come on, let´s look at it from a different perspective: EGTL is playing in fu**ing PROLEAGUE!! Who would have thought that this might be true some day two or three years ago? I am pretty sure that almost nobody did! To quote Gandalf: "There was never much hope; Only a fool could hope." Let us just be grateful for the possibility to see "our" team, the team that represents the foreign community like no other teams, fight against the legends of BW on a daily basis! Everytime I switch on SPL there is a match going on between two players we used to admire and look up to in the oldern days. It is just pure awesomeness to see EGTL compete in this scenario. Of course, many people thought that EGTL would crush the BW teams based on the "having played sc2 for longer"-advantage. I guess BW teams make up for that with dedication, passion and a precise practice regime. The first time around should be seen as an experience. Getting to know PL, the pressure in the booth. PL has it´sown rules. And in a season, there will always be a "favorite" that chokes. Just give this team some time to get used to PL and just enjoy the fact, that EGTL is going head to head wit h teams like SKT T!, KT Rolster or KHAN! This alone should be enough. I know it is for me EGTL fighting! ps: Yeah, maybe they aren´t fielding their best players. But still, there is a reason for everything and we can´t look behind the scenes. Let´s cheer for everybody! They fought hard for their dream and maybe if we stop to look at everything with a negative attitude, things will turn around
Most of the people on this website never watched BW PL. The impact of EG-TL being there is lost on them.
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On February 02 2013 16:55 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 11:43 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 11:39 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 02 2013 10:58 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 08:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:53 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 07:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 07:30 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 05:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 05:15 SamsungStar wrote:
[quote]
Not really. Aces are supposed to win their first match then take the ace as well. Hero's not even winning his regular PL match. Half the reason why EGTL isn't making it to ace matches. Look at Roro/Jangbi for examples of what Ace players look like. Funny because Roro has a 0% winrate against HerO from both PL and individual leagues. HerO's winning about half his PL matches atm which, while underwhelming for a player of his caliber, would still be reliable if they had a strong core team to back him up. But with Stephano not playing recently and Taeja being out because of his wrist problems, there really isn't. But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. What? The only set they've played this season is the one in this thread, which they lost 4:1. Nice one BRAH. This season had 3 rounds so far. First round, EGTL all killed Samsung Khan. Second round HerO 3 killed them and then they had nobody to follow up so EGTL lost 3-4. Now Khan 4-1. Wondering if you're just playing dumb Oh okay, so you're saying Khan is up 2-1 vs EGTL? A team that started the season going 1-6 with players that made comments about how they didn't understand the game in interviews during their train wreck of a first round. And somehow this is supposed to be a blistering retort to those who say EGTL is bad? So... EGTL did better than Khan in round 1, "they're just learning the game". EGTL does worse than Khan (as of right now) in round 3, every player on EGTL is bad. Their map score head to head is equal. EGTL played with an arguably weaker lineup this time around, missing Stephano and Taeja, Revival not getting to play. But whatever. Arguing with you is pointless as fuck since you only know how to strawman and dodge questions. Cursing helps. You notice the part where nobody agrees with you? It's because your arguments are terrible. And sorry, despite what 12 yr olds on the internet think, calling everything a strawman isn't a proper rebuttal. Well it might help if you were more clear with your posts lol I mean, first you say 'zomg no ace for egtl thats why they lose' Then it's "yaya check out roro and jangbi, pimps~ o and ya I remember when EGTL 4-0'd Samsung keke all you suckers thinking they're bad" Then "dude wtf are you dumb how does that say that they aren't bad", even though you're the one that mentioned that they beat Samsung once and the other guy was saying that it didn't mean anything since samsung was dumber than a rock.... I'm sure a lot of things seem obscure when you can't read. Or make coherent summaries. I clearly stated in round 1 Samsung players didn't even understand the game yet. Which, if you have any grasp on logic, explains why they performed so poorly in round 1. Round 2 and now Round 3, they performed exceptionally well. And it was on the strength of their aces, hence so many 4-3 wins. It's really not that hard to follow. But somehow you managed to veer off track. Bravo. lol the fuck is your issue dude? Sorry if I interpreted this Show nested quote +But hey, remember this season when EGTL all killed Samsung Khan? Lol, that was quickly forgotten. MAN these EGTL guys are bad. as sarcastic and got the wrong impression, but it sure seems like you were saying that EGTL was actually good in that post. Sorry I disturbed you during this time of the month, i guess
I never said that. The guy I was arguing with said that. Like I said, a lot of things must seem obscure when you can't read.
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On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Show nested quote +Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison
This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa."
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa."
Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there.
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On February 02 2013 22:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa." Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there.
I didn't avoid it. I answered it. You are just illiterate. Also, your argument is terrible. You're trying to use an outlier to disprove a trend. Do you have any idea how silly that is?
P.S. Heh
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 02 2013 22:43 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 22:26 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 22:24 SamsungStar wrote:On February 02 2013 21:10 baubo wrote:On February 02 2013 20:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 02 2013 20:32 nomyx wrote:On February 02 2013 17:17 Confuse wrote:On February 02 2013 17:02 Balfazar wrote:
Can't we just agree EGTL sucks and move on? I think most people understand they are in last place; the real debate should be on why. The first foreign team to enter proleague should have all the motivation in the world to do well. I just don't understand why that doesn't convert into actually doing well. I think it's a mixture of many things. Poor coaching decisions, not fielding certain players (Taeja's injury I can understand, but fielding certain players first when that player has a bad winrate vs 2 races, stephano focusing on GSL instead of proleague, ect), and even possibly the players not focusing enough time on proleague when we know all the KeSPA pros spend the majority of their time practicing for pro league. Just some armchair analysis. I agree with this. What I absolutely despise are people who look at teamleague results, ignore all the factors that go into it and argue that every player on the losing team is bad. EGTL is performing poorly as a team, yes. They might be bad as a team, yes. Are all the players performing poorly in individual leagues? No. So that's kind of a stupid thing to argue. Scanning all the trolling you did in this thread, I think this statement sums up your butthurt. Nobody here has even remotely stated that everyone on EGTL is bad. You are either delusional, or have backed yourself into an untenable position that you can't possibly defend. So you have to make it seem everyone else are taking an absurdly extreme stance that doesn't exist. Compare it to the English soccer team. They have incredible individual players. Are they as good as they could be as a team? No. Why? Because working as a team requires a different approach, chemistry between the players, ETC. Would you watch England lose 4-1 to Germany and argue that Rooney is bad? No, because it's dumb as fuck Yet another example of having absolutely no actual logic to backup your position, hence making a horrible analogy that neither adheres to common sense, nor adhere to history. From a common sense standpoint, a series of 1-on-1 matchups and one where 11 players work in cohesion cannot possibly equate. From a historical standpoint, KTFlash, Jaedong Oz, MBSea all roll their eyes at this comparison This. He backed himself into a completely untenable position by stating "EGTL's players individual skill is blah blah wipes the floor with 90% of Kespa." Heh, you still avoided the IM question. I considered our debate done there. I didn't avoid it. I answered it. You are just illiterate. Also, your argument is terrible. You're trying to use an outlier to disprove a trend. Do you have any idea how silly that is? P.S. Heh
You said "Mvp and Nestea don't make a team, depth does!!!!!!", which is correct but doesn't answer my question.
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Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
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On February 03 2013 02:29 Doodsmack wrote:
Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
That suggests they don't have a solid ace that can close out games, which is true with Taeja injured.
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On February 03 2013 02:29 Doodsmack wrote:
Funny the people calling EGTL bad wouldn't be discerning enough to recognize the obvious counterpoint that they have 5 3-4 losses.
I agree that EGTL isn't bad per say, think they're just below average, but I hate your point.
3-4 and 4-3 is statistically the most likely outcome. If EG-TL was EXACTLY average. Like not bad or good relative to every other team, 3-4 still has a 27% of happening. The expected value of 27% out of 16 games is 4-5.
With EG-TL's % win per map, 3-4 is actually the most likely.
.... now that I brought up stats, I have this horrible feeling some PhD in stats is about to prove me wrong. D=
EDIT: Actually, after reading things a bit more carefully. People are really misrepresenting each other. Except for 1 person, I notice, most people are just butthurt about EG-TL "supposedly" wiping the floor with KESPA and gloating that it didn't happen. They didn't necessarily say EG-TL is bad, though I guess you can infer from that.
While people like Doodsmack are taking them as saying EG-TL is bad.
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Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible!
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On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible!
SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come.
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United States97276 Posts
On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come.
They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
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On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
What are those 'funeral videos' that you speak of?
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United States97276 Posts
On February 03 2013 04:25 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well. What are those 'funeral videos' that you speak of?
before they played some matches spotv put on these inspirational videos of the teams where it was like "we'll try harder to win!" type stuff. let me see if I can find them on youtube or something. They reminded me of the GSL Idra video which made it seem like Greg died.
damn they cut the vods to right to the start of the first game instead of the downtime leading up to them. this might be harder to find
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Puma is 0-6 while Thorzain is 1-3
I think we should give Thorzain more showtime.
(sure hes streaming hots all day long lol)
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im startting to wonder if there might be contractal needs to let the weaker players play again and again
maybe theres a need to let play the same number of players from each team again and again
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On February 03 2013 04:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 04:08 FineAndDandy wrote:On February 03 2013 03:51 Dirkinity wrote:
Since TaeJa is injured they won like 1 matchup out of at least 6? ...thats pretty terrible! SKT went worse during this period, I think. So, EG-TL, don't be too hard on yourself, your turn will come. They just need a funeral video. I think this is the key. Ever since Samsung KHAN's funeral video they've won like 7 straight. Then STX had a funeral video and they are doing well.
lol, never heard that, i know what you mean, but still, i thought you wanted them dead.
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United States7483 Posts
Why are they playing Puma instead of ThorZaIN, or Zenio instead of ThorZaIN?
EG-TL needs Taeja back T_T.
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United States97276 Posts
Zenio is better than Thorzain
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On February 02 2013 17:46 0dem wrote:Come on, let´s look at it from a different perspective: EGTL is playing in fu**ing PROLEAGUE!! Who would have thought that this might be true some day two or three years ago? I am pretty sure that almost nobody did! To quote Gandalf: "There was never much hope; Only a fool could hope." Let us just be grateful for the possibility to see "our" team, the team that represents the foreign community like no other teams, fight against the legends of BW on a daily basis! Everytime I switch on SPL there is a match going on between two players we used to admire and look up to in the oldern days. It is just pure awesomeness to see EGTL compete in this scenario. Of course, many people thought that EGTL would crush the BW teams based on the "having played sc2 for longer"-advantage. I guess BW teams make up for that with dedication, passion and a precise practice regime. The first time around should be seen as an experience. Getting to know PL, the pressure in the booth. PL has it´sown rules. And in a season, there will always be a "favorite" that chokes. Just give this team some time to get used to PL and just enjoy the fact, that EGTL is going head to head wit h teams like SKT T!, KT Rolster or KHAN! This alone should be enough. I know it is for me EGTL fighting! ps: Yeah, maybe they aren´t fielding their best players. But still, there is a reason for everything and we can´t look behind the scenes. Let´s cheer for everybody! They fought hard for their dream and maybe if we stop to look at everything with a negative attitude, things will turn around
About half of the players from EG-TL that play in ProLeague are koreans. Not that much of a foreigner team.
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On February 03 2013 05:59 Whitewing wrote:
Why are they playing Puma instead of ThorZaIN, or Zenio instead of ThorZaIN?
EG-TL needs Taeja back T_T.
ThorZain is only playing HotS.
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