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No balance whining, caster bashing, or player bashing in this thread. |
On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL.
I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while.
He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans.
I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material.
He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it.
He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be.
The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be.
Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule)
Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree)
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On February 01 2013 23:56 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:40 Whatson wrote:
Well Stephano got third. I wonder what the excuses are going to be. No excuse here. But to be fair Stephano was still pretty good as a foreigner. He needs to fix some details that are annoying though such as keep checking the attack path. He also needs to be less previsible in his build. That said, it doesn't mean that he doesn't has the potential to compete in code S, and I think he has it. But he's not refined enough to fight in code S. Code A should be OK though.
Stephano is definitely Code S level regardless of what people try to label him. He's already proved himself time and time again. I'm not a fan of his but for his fans, I think Stephano could have made it to the Ro16 if he avoided a Kespa player. But GOM paired him up directly with one. If It had of been DRG, Hack, and somebody else Stephano would have been in. Stephano has already beaten DRG before and he could do it again. But the Kespa players are raising the bar by the day. People say Life is the best. But don't forget last season Soulkey 4-0ed him.
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On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree)
I agree with everything except the whole kespa having better average players. The vast majority of ESF A team players are already qualified, while the A teams from Kespa were qualifying this time around. There of course were a couple strange qualifiers like labyrinth, but then you had players like Arthur as well.
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On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree)
There's no "not very far from top eSF players anymore. They're right there with each other. Time will tell who's better when it comes down to it. Soulkey 4-0ed Life last GSL, Flash 3-1 DRG at that MLG event, Rain beat DRG 4-1 at the OSL, Innovation just 4-1ed Stephano in one of Stephano's best match ups, same with Jaehoon and the only 3 Kespa players in Code S all advanced. They're at the same skill level at this point. However, we don't have a big enough sample size from the other (lesser named) Kespa pros. Hopefully we'll get to see in the next Code A.
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On February 02 2013 01:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 samurai80 wrote:On February 01 2013 23:40 Whatson wrote:
Well Stephano got third. I wonder what the excuses are going to be. No excuse here. But to be fair Stephano was still pretty good as a foreigner. He needs to fix some details that are annoying though such as keep checking the attack path. He also needs to be less previsible in his build. That said, it doesn't mean that he doesn't has the potential to compete in code S, and I think he has it. But he's not refined enough to fight in code S. Code A should be OK though. Stephano is definitely Code S level regardless of what people try to label him. He's already proved himself time and time again. I'm not a fan of his but for his fans, I think Stephano could have made it to the Ro16 if he avoided a Kespa player. But GOM paired him up directly with one. If It had of been DRG, Hack, and somebody else Stephano would have been in. Stephano has already beaten DRG before and he could do it again. But the Kespa players are raising the bar by the day. People say Life is the best. But don't forget last season Soulkey 4-0ed him.
?????
DRG just anihilated Stephano just a week or 2 ago in Ironsquid2 3-0...
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I find it very funny when people use torunaments / rounds to describe a skill level. Stephano Code S Ro4 material? No, he has never been there period. Don't confuse what you wish to happen with what's really happening. I can speculate all day that Stephano would be in Ro4 if only pairs were different, or that Life would lose every single game if only pairs were different, the fact is it's not what's really going on. Stephano is a very good player who has never achieved anything in Code S, this is a fact, the rest is fantasies.
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On February 02 2013 01:52 Incomplet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 01 2013 23:56 samurai80 wrote:On February 01 2013 23:40 Whatson wrote:
Well Stephano got third. I wonder what the excuses are going to be. No excuse here. But to be fair Stephano was still pretty good as a foreigner. He needs to fix some details that are annoying though such as keep checking the attack path. He also needs to be less previsible in his build. That said, it doesn't mean that he doesn't has the potential to compete in code S, and I think he has it. But he's not refined enough to fight in code S. Code A should be OK though. Stephano is definitely Code S level regardless of what people try to label him. He's already proved himself time and time again. I'm not a fan of his but for his fans, I think Stephano could have made it to the Ro16 if he avoided a Kespa player. But GOM paired him up directly with one. If It had of been DRG, Hack, and somebody else Stephano would have been in. Stephano has already beaten DRG before and he could do it again. But the Kespa players are raising the bar by the day. People say Life is the best. But don't forget last season Soulkey 4-0ed him. ????? DRG just anihilated Stephano just a week or 2 ago in Ironsquid2 3-0...
Yeah but Stephano has also beaten DRG before too. I didn't see those games so I didn't know how bad the annihilation was.
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On February 02 2013 01:53 Sejanus wrote:
I find it very funny when people use torunaments / rounds to describe a skill level. Stephano Code S Ro4 material? No, he has never been there period. Don't confuse what you wish to happen with what's really happening. I can speculate all day that Stephano would be in Ro4 if only pairs were different, or that Life would lose every single game if only pairs were different, the fact is it's not what's really going on. Stephano is a very good player who has never achieved anything in Code S, this is a fact, the rest is fantasies.
This is true but he has beaten people who have achieved things in code S and I believe that's were a lot of people are basing his skill off of.
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On February 02 2013 01:46 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 23:56 samurai80 wrote:On February 01 2013 23:40 Whatson wrote:
Well Stephano got third. I wonder what the excuses are going to be. No excuse here. But to be fair Stephano was still pretty good as a foreigner. He needs to fix some details that are annoying though such as keep checking the attack path. He also needs to be less previsible in his build. That said, it doesn't mean that he doesn't has the potential to compete in code S, and I think he has it. But he's not refined enough to fight in code S. Code A should be OK though. Stephano is definitely Code S level regardless of what people try to label him. He's already proved himself time and time again. I'm not a fan of his but for his fans, I think Stephano could have made it to the Ro16 if he avoided a Kespa player. But GOM paired him up directly with one. If It had of been DRG, Hack, and somebody else Stephano would have been in. Stephano has already beaten DRG before and he could do it again. But the Kespa players are raising the bar by the day. People say Life is the best. But don't forget last season Soulkey 4-0ed him.
He got seeded into Code S then was only able to beat Hack.... Stephano IMO is about mid code A level at most. Which is higher then I'd ever thought I'd rank him. In his code S match he lost to the only real code S calibre player he played(Twice..). We shall see how he does in Code A, if he can fight his way back up into Code S then I'll call him Code S level. For now he is just another foreigner who got a Code S seed and got smacked out right away in my eyes.
Granted I am slightly biased, It's not that I hate Stephano I just hate the ridiculous hype he always gets. If he proves me wrong and earns Code S I'll be happy to have a foreigner that belongs there and I won't hate the hype because it was true.
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I thought he was done after he lost to Innovation the first time, but he actually made it close at the end. Good to see! Not a bad showing at all! He definitely got a harder group that Naniwa ever did, that's for sure.
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United States97274 Posts
On February 02 2013 01:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree) There's no "not very far from top eSF players anymore. They're right there with each other. Time will tell who's better when it comes down to it. Soulkey 4-0ed Life last GSL, Flash 3-1 DRG at that MLG event, Rain beat DRG 4-1 at the OSL, Innovation just 4-1ed Stephano in one of Stephano's best match ups, same with Jaehoon and the only 3 Kespa players in Code S all advanced. They're at the same skill level at this point. However, we don't have a big enough sample size from the other (lesser named) Kespa pros. Hopefully we'll get to see in the next Code A.
If you want the numbers from this season of GSL it's currently Kespa 26-30 NonKespa (esf + foreigners) so it's not too far off but still slightly in the nonkespa players' favor.
+ Show Spoiler +Jaedong 4-4
Flash 3-1
Trap 1-4
Bbyong 1-3
sOs 1-4
Fantasy 2-2
Flying 0-3
TY 1-4
RorO 5-2
Soulkey 4-0
Innovation 4-3
Total: 26 - 30
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On February 02 2013 01:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree) There's no "not very far from top eSF players anymore. They're right there with each other. Time will tell who's better when it comes down to it. Soulkey 4-0ed Life last GSL, Flash 3-1 DRG at that MLG event, Rain beat DRG 4-1 at the OSL, Innovation just 4-1ed Stephano in one of Stephano's best match ups, same with Jaehoon and the only 3 Kespa players in Code S all advanced. They're at the same skill level at this point. However, we don't have a big enough sample size from the other (lesser named) Kespa pros. Hopefully we'll get to see in the next Code A. If you want the numbers from this season of GSL it's currently Kespa 26-30 NonKespa (esf + foreigners) so it's not too far off but still slightly in the nonkespa players' favor. + Show Spoiler +Jaedong 4-4
Flash 3-1
Trap 1-4
Bbyong 1-3
sOs 1-4
Fantasy 2-2
Flying 0-3
TY 1-4
RorO 5-2
Soulkey 4-0
Innovation 4-3
Total: 26 - 30
The numbers are very close indeed. However, I wouldn't really be trying to base it off the GSL alone. You should really start the number counting once HotS has been out for a couple of months. That's just my opinion though.
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United States97274 Posts
On February 02 2013 02:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree) There's no "not very far from top eSF players anymore. They're right there with each other. Time will tell who's better when it comes down to it. Soulkey 4-0ed Life last GSL, Flash 3-1 DRG at that MLG event, Rain beat DRG 4-1 at the OSL, Innovation just 4-1ed Stephano in one of Stephano's best match ups, same with Jaehoon and the only 3 Kespa players in Code S all advanced. They're at the same skill level at this point. However, we don't have a big enough sample size from the other (lesser named) Kespa pros. Hopefully we'll get to see in the next Code A. If you want the numbers from this season of GSL it's currently Kespa 26-30 NonKespa (esf + foreigners) so it's not too far off but still slightly in the nonkespa players' favor. + Show Spoiler +Jaedong 4-4
Flash 3-1
Trap 1-4
Bbyong 1-3
sOs 1-4
Fantasy 2-2
Flying 0-3
TY 1-4
RorO 5-2
Soulkey 4-0
Innovation 4-3
Total: 26 - 30 The numbers are very close indeed. However, I wouldn't really be trying to base it off the GSL alone. You should really start the number counting once HotS has been out for a couple of months. That's just my opinion though.
I agree. Plus there will be a ton more games to add in once Code A starts
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On February 02 2013 02:06 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 02:05 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:50 BlazeFury01 wrote:On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree) There's no "not very far from top eSF players anymore. They're right there with each other. Time will tell who's better when it comes down to it. Soulkey 4-0ed Life last GSL, Flash 3-1 DRG at that MLG event, Rain beat DRG 4-1 at the OSL, Innovation just 4-1ed Stephano in one of Stephano's best match ups, same with Jaehoon and the only 3 Kespa players in Code S all advanced. They're at the same skill level at this point. However, we don't have a big enough sample size from the other (lesser named) Kespa pros. Hopefully we'll get to see in the next Code A. If you want the numbers from this season of GSL it's currently Kespa 26-30 NonKespa (esf + foreigners) so it's not too far off but still slightly in the nonkespa players' favor. + Show Spoiler +Jaedong 4-4
Flash 3-1
Trap 1-4
Bbyong 1-3
sOs 1-4
Fantasy 2-2
Flying 0-3
TY 1-4
RorO 5-2
Soulkey 4-0
Innovation 4-3
Total: 26 - 30 The numbers are very close indeed. However, I wouldn't really be trying to base it off the GSL alone. You should really start the number counting once HotS has been out for a couple of months. That's just my opinion though. I agree. Plus there will be a ton more games to add in once Code A starts
That's very true. It's good that a lot of the players who made it through on the Kespa side are their B-Teamers. That way they won't have to focus on Pro League and be able to focus primarily on GSL like the ESF players.
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On February 02 2013 01:57 Havik_ wrote:
I thought he was done after he lost to Innovation the first time, but he actually made it close at the end. Good to see! Not a bad showing at all! He definitely got a harder group that Naniwa ever did, that's for sure.
MVP, Ryung, and Puzzle > DRG, Bogus, and Hack
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On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree)
You take GSL RO4 far too lightly. Even if he ended up with a RO4 path that consists only of players he has beaten before it means nothing. Why? Because Stephano does well in foreign tournaments where nobody prepares specifically for him. Throw him in the GSL against the same group of players and every single one of them will have tailored a set of builds to rip him apart.
I'm glad he lost. I don't hate Stephano, but I hate having to listen to the stupid amount of hype he gets.
Hopefully this is the end of foreigner seeding. If they're good enough they will qualify on their own.
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United States97274 Posts
On February 02 2013 02:13 Greggle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:44 Cattlecruiser wrote:On February 02 2013 01:06 las91 wrote:
I don't see how people can really defend Stephano or attack him. He played ok, although I would be more than a little concerned he couldn't pull a win on cross position Whirlwind against a Terran. Bogus (I will never call him Innovation lol) played well and 4-1'd him in the games, he earned his spot. Stephano will have more chances if/when he acclimates to GSL. I think Stephano did what many hardcore, international and Korean followers have thought for a while. He showed that he is a solid player, equal amongst top end Koreans. I never thought Stephano would be a GSL winner, but without a doubt a fringe Code S/A if not Ro4 material. He had a chance to get into the ro16 today and came very close to it. He IS NOT as invincible as foreigners hoped, but he isn't as bad as the anti-fans make him to be. The state of eSF v KeSPA v foreigners isn't as disorganized as people make it out to be. Top KeSPA players are not very far from top eSF players, while KeSPA as a whole has slightly better average players considering the recent Code A qualifiers. (Not surprising considering their practice schedule) Stephano, Scarlett, DIMAGA, and Naniwa have the ability to take out top end Korean players in the foreign format, not a sure thing but a distinct possibility. (few others as well aka Idra, Sen, ect to a lesser degree) You take GSL RO4 far too lightly. Even if he ended up with a RO4 path that consists only of players he has beaten before it means nothing. Why? Because Stephano does well in foreign tournaments where nobody prepares specifically for him. Throw him in the GSL against the same group of players and every single one of them will have tailored a set of builds to rip him apart. I'm glad he lost. I don't hate Stephano, but I hate having to listen to the stupid amount of hype he gets. Hopefully this is the end of foreigner seeding. If they're good enough they will qualify on their own.
I seriously doubt it will be. As long as they can bring someone with a large enough fan base it is still a win for Gom because of the increase in viewers and subscriptions. Seeds are good for them from a business standpoint. Not saying I agree with them but you can definitely see why they would do it.
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Aww yes good job bogus, although I expected him to go undefeated but it's okay at least he exposed stephano to be unworthy to get a seed.
Oh and stephano isn't even code A level. Not with that stacked code A player list
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EPT
