On February 01 2013 22:18 Monsen wrote: Feeding the troll like bawses you guys. Tztztz
Flinch isn't trolling lol.
You need to download the latest update of you troll detection software. Low post count (probably most of it in this thread): check Capslock : check Insults: check Opinion and way of voicing it bound to incite angry arguments: check
Nobody should jump to conclusions. MVP, Creator, and Life have lost a whole lot more tournaments than they've won. Stephano failing to advance doesn't mean he isn't great. It doesn't even mean he's not capable of winning Code S. All it means is Stephano hasn't PROVED it yet.
If you think Stephano is better Bogus, that's perfectly fine. But you've got to give respect to the man who went out there and proved he belonged in the R16. That's why we play the games.
On February 01 2013 21:42 Raiquer wrote: Naniwa made it to the Round of 8 in GSL Code S TWICE. Stephano lost in the Round of 32 GSL Code S.
and it only took naniwa how long?
Well I mean.. He did it before Stephano. I don't really see your point.
and jinro got to RO4 twice before naniwa? where are we going with this?
That Jinro is the best foreigner in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty of all time?
seems irrelevant but yes, in terms of achievement, he is yeah... although id argue quite strongly about him being the best of all time in terms of actual ability
In terms of achievement he is far from it lol. He is not even up there among foreign terrans, ThorZaIN is, then LucifroN/Kas.
In terms of ability, Thorzain, LucifroN, Kas etc all play far better than Jinro ever did, I mean he was still a very active player when those guys had easily passed him, But you're talking Achievements however, and I don't like to compare eras and belittle older achivements and he made 2 GSL Ro4's and a Ro16 as well I think? Beat many great players in doing so. Certainly the best achievements of all WoL for any race in Korea and shouldn't be downplayed!
On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote: Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that?
Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square? he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
No, Stephano got 1-4'd. He won one game in 5, that is getting demolished. The 4 games Innovation won weren't even close. Stephano got STOMPED by Innovation, you can't twist that.
Youre so god damn angry. If Stephano won that game, they would have been 2:3 but Stephano advancing. Who's the better player then? Would Stephano have been "beaten" by Innovation yet be in the RO16 instead?
Yeah but that didn't happen. So...
so stephano got cheesed 3 out of 4 games, he didn't scout therefore lost. why is everybody trying to read too much into this?
players who had similar or worse score than Stephano this season:
those players didn't get 1% of the retarded hate Stephano gets.
get the fuck out with the idiotic hate. yeah he lost, you hate his fanboys, ok. you hate him because of his fanboys?? then you're simply stupid (this wasn't aimed at shaddar, rather in general). he beat Bogus in a long macro game convincingly, but got punished for his lack of scouting, still proved he is no slouch. no need to be retarded about the matter
I would argue that those players don't get 1% of the retarded hate Stephano gets, because they don't get 1% of the retarded hype he gets. Losing in the early game is still losing; and it isn't like Stephano can blame imbalance or map selection on his loss. He lost purely because he does not put enough effort into scouting, or he thinks he doesn't need to.
Anyway, you kids take care, goodnight.
How old are you to be able to address the forum in general as kids 0.o
People here are pretty young though. 30 year olds can definitely call this crowd kids.
Are you serious dude? Bogus is so much better than Stephano. He actually has a chance to win the GSL for starters.
Dead serious.
Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing.
I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game.
It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level.
I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand.
Did you see Bomber's games by chance?
I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check.
I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO.
Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
Lol why don't you stop with that? :D Bomber won quite a lot of TvZ recently, in good fashion. He really is the terran with the most chance to do well in this GSL TvZ wise if he doesn't choke like he did a lot of times in the past.
Bomber's TvZ is really good. But I still think he is a huge underdog vs Life, DRG. And slight underdog to Symbol. And probably 50/50 vs Curious, LosirA.
Yeah but he is the best chance we have. With our 3x% winrate we don't have a lot anyways.
Hopefully in HoTS, Blizzard will take a look at creep spread. Because I don't even think it is the units (infestors, BL, etc) anymore. Once the creep gets going, there is not much terran can do other than to wait for the zerg to make mistakes. Terrans have 0 map control and zergs choose exactly when and where they want to engage.
Or else we are just going to see terrans going to that early siege tank widow mines push
Maybe Raven's should be able to clear creep with a spell or something. Like a "cleanse" ability with a large splash radius.
Sometimes a certain buffs create new problems. Creep was NOT a problem before queen patch. It became a big problem because against good zergs like DRG I have yet to see a terran that is able to clear creep. And it gives so much edge to zerg army. You can delay expansion landing up to 2-3 minutes, you see every move enemy army makes. And all that for 1 creep tumor that can be spread without spending any additional resources or energy.
If I were at Blizzard I would probably just make creep spread slower.
Missed the last series .. Omg that last game .. Stephano has baneling speed almost done and he can make a shitload of banes but engages way to earlyyyy .
Innovation's TvZ looks amazing though . Good luck to him !
On February 01 2013 21:42 Raiquer wrote: Naniwa made it to the Round of 8 in GSL Code S TWICE. Stephano lost in the Round of 32 GSL Code S.
and it only took naniwa how long?
Well I mean.. He did it before Stephano. I don't really see your point.
and jinro got to RO4 twice before naniwa? where are we going with this?
That Jinro is the best foreigner in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty of all time?
seems irrelevant but yes, in terms of achievement, he is yeah... although id argue quite strongly about him being the best of all time in terms of actual ability
In terms of achievement he is far from it lol. He is not even up there among foreign terrans, ThorZaIN is, then LucifroN/Kas.
In terms of ability, Thorzain, LucifroN, Kas etc all play far better than Jinro ever did, I mean he was still a very active player when those guys had easily passed him, But you're talking Achievements however, and I don't like to compare eras and belittle older achivements and he made 2 GSL Ro4's and a Ro16 as well I think? Beat many great players in doing so. Certainly the best achievements of all WoL for any race in Korea and shouldn't be downplayed!
And? ThorZaIN actually WON tournaments as well as LucifroN and Kas maybe online ones, and the three won against koreans, it's better than a couple of ro4. You can't say : "well but they are ro4 from the GSL" since if you talk about level of play that was so old that everyone was terrible and random unknowns made it to ro4 (Rainbow runner up, Legalming and the other terran good results?).
On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote: Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that?
Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square? he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
No, Stephano got 1-4'd. He won one game in 5, that is getting demolished. The 4 games Innovation won weren't even close. Stephano got STOMPED by Innovation, you can't twist that.
Hack also 2-1'd Jaedong to get into Code S, who is garbage TvZ despite what the fanboys want.
He's never gonna be in Code S again.
I'm going to save this quote for later, because I think both Hack (<3) and Stephano will be back pretty soon.
i think it was pretty key that stephano couldnt see innovation coming to him. he had the tower and overlords in place but the army walked the perfect path. if he wouldve seen him coming he probably couldve held that push. good map choice for innovation i would say. stephano played good
On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote: Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that?
Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square? he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
No, Stephano got 1-4'd. He won one game in 5, that is getting demolished. The 4 games Innovation won weren't even close. Stephano got STOMPED by Innovation, you can't twist that.
Youre so god damn angry. If Stephano won that game, they would have been 2:3 but Stephano advancing. Who's the better player then? Would Stephano have been "beaten" by Innovation yet be in the RO16 instead?
Stephano was NEVER gonna win that game, Innovation read him like a book to the point where he could a-move to victory (lol 3 banes)
1-4, i have actual stats you have retarded fanboyism.
yes, you can tell us he went 1-4 against bogus... suppose that would dictate that HuK destroyed Fantasy in the Up/Downs because he went 1-0... technically 1 is bigger than 0 so yeah, actual stats right here
I feel that Stephano didn't really scout that much while DRG did. Maybe some losses could have been avoided if only Stephano had scouted a little more? It's sad to see someone with that amount of skill loose because he missed something I hope he'll try again next season! Go Stephano!
On February 01 2013 21:52 sitromit wrote: Is the "Stephano could win GSL" nonsense finally over now? Can we just call him the best foreigner and leave it at that?
Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square? he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
No, Stephano got 1-4'd. He won one game in 5, that is getting demolished. The 4 games Innovation won weren't even close. Stephano got STOMPED by Innovation, you can't twist that.
Youre so god damn angry. If Stephano won that game, they would have been 2:3 but Stephano advancing. Who's the better player then? Would Stephano have been "beaten" by Innovation yet be in the RO16 instead?
Stephano was NEVER gonna win that game, Innovation read him like a book to the point where he could a-move to victory (lol 3 banes)
1-4, i have actual stats you have retarded fanboyism.
yes, you can tell us he went 1-4 against bogus... suppose that would dictate that HuK destroyed Fantasy in the Up/Downs because he went 1-0... technically 1 is bigger than 0 so yeah, actual stats right here
On February 01 2013 21:46 Vindicare605 wrote: [quote]
Dead serious.
Stephano is a superior macro player in general IMO but Innovation beat him using superior decision making and early game tactics. A lot of that has to do with a probable lack of preparation on Stephano's part which is normal considering that GSL is much different than any of the marathon foreigner events he's used to playing.
I think given time to adjust more to the way GSL is played as well as some better scouting I think Stephano could take him in a long series. His game number 2 was about as one sided as a TvZ can possibly be which tells me that if Innovation doesn't manage to secure an early advantage somehow that Stephano will crush him with his superior late game.
It's a normal dynamic between players of similar skill level.
I think Stephano and Bogus' macro play are on a similar level. But the game gives the advantage to macro zergs over macro terrans right now. The terrans basically needs to stifle the zerg's eco before it gets out of hand.
Did you see Bomber's games by chance?
I mean in general there's definitely an advantage for Zergs in the later game if they aren't harassed or pressured that's obvious sure, but game 2 was more than just the Zerg late game advantage. Stephano beat Innovation in virtually every catergory. Superior macro, superior multitasking, superior army movement and scouting, superior compositions, unbelievable creep spread that was almost impossible to check.
I mean yea Zerg has a nice late game advantage but I'd love to see Stephano try and trounce Bomber or Gumiho the way he slaughtered Innovation in game 2. Their late game play is far superior IMO.
Bomber and Gumiho won a single bo3 against Sniper and now they're the TvZ messia...
Lol why don't you stop with that? :D Bomber won quite a lot of TvZ recently, in good fashion. He really is the terran with the most chance to do well in this GSL TvZ wise if he doesn't choke like he did a lot of times in the past.
Bomber's TvZ is really good. But I still think he is a huge underdog vs Life, DRG. And slight underdog to Symbol. And probably 50/50 vs Curious, LosirA.
Yeah but he is the best chance we have. With our 3x% winrate we don't have a lot anyways.
Hopefully in HoTS, Blizzard will take a look at creep spread. Because I don't even think it is the units (infestors, BL, etc) anymore. Once the creep gets going, there is not much terran can do other than to wait for the zerg to make mistakes. Terrans have 0 map control and zergs choose exactly when and where they want to engage.
Or else we are just going to see terrans going to that early siege tank widow mines push
Maybe Raven's should be able to clear creep with a spell or something. Like a "cleanse" ability with a large splash radius.
Sometimes a certain buffs create new problems. Creep was NOT a problem before queen patch. It became a big problem because against good zergs like DRG I have yet to see a terran that is able to clear creep. And it gives so much edge to zerg army. You can delay expansion landing up to 2-3 minutes, you see every move enemy army makes. And all that for 1 creep tumor that can be spread without spending any additional resources or energy.
If I were at Blizzard I would probably just make creep spread slower.
Good news, creep is slower in HotS because instead of the tumor instantly forming, it takes 3 seconds to "travel" to the new spot. I'm not sure how much this will slow it down, but it does have an effect.
On February 01 2013 21:54 Awesomeness wrote: [quote]
Can we do that AND stop the "Stephano is not code s level" nonsense? Now that would be great.
Maybe if you tell me what he proved tonight that made him Code S level?
2-0ing Hack, a player who ISN'T Code S level?
Going 1-4 against Innovation, being read like a book and demolished, a player who IS Code S level?
IF Stephano makes it back to Code S then I'll consider him it, until then, no, he's just the best foreigner.
that's a little harsh? hack as far as i know qualified for code S fair and square? he deserved to be in that group, and whilst he was clearly one of the weaker 32 players, had still earn't his right to be there, also, I didn't see stephano getting "demolished" by innovation? I saw an innovation was was better prepared and superior in terms of tactical choice, but in terms of ability i think stephano held his own and more (see game 2 of the 2nd series)... everyone know's hypetrains are annoying, but anti-fan bias is just as irritating
No, Stephano got 1-4'd. He won one game in 5, that is getting demolished. The 4 games Innovation won weren't even close. Stephano got STOMPED by Innovation, you can't twist that.
Youre so god damn angry. If Stephano won that game, they would have been 2:3 but Stephano advancing. Who's the better player then? Would Stephano have been "beaten" by Innovation yet be in the RO16 instead?
Stephano was NEVER gonna win that game, Innovation read him like a book to the point where he could a-move to victory (lol 3 banes)
1-4, i have actual stats you have retarded fanboyism.
yes, you can tell us he went 1-4 against bogus... suppose that would dictate that HuK destroyed Fantasy in the Up/Downs because he went 1-0... technically 1 is bigger than 0 so yeah, actual stats right here
I didn't get to see all the games, but holy crap Bogus timings were so crisp..love his TvZ.
As far as all the fanboy stuff goes, I am not really either a fan or hater of stephano, but he always plays well and is 100% best foreigner of WoL no matter what. However, I think that no matter how people do, this proves that seeds are really not the way to go for GSL. I hope Stephano plays through Code A and comes back to Code S.. that to me will be more impressive than him getting through his group today.
I hope he'll try again next season! Go Stephano!
it was pure gold
12397
4182
3240
EPT
