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On November 19 2012 03:52 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 03:48 1Dhalism wrote:On November 19 2012 03:41 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 03:12 1Dhalism wrote:On November 19 2012 02:01 keglu wrote:On November 19 2012 01:48 Scisyhp wrote:On November 19 2012 01:38 Dionyseus wrote:On November 19 2012 00:38 sdnnvs wrote:
Protoss need a big nerf, by the way ... No, the best zergs and terrans weren't here, while the three best protoss players were here. You are treating this like an invitational. Hint: It wasn't. All players that were here were here because they qualified. That means that the best zerg/terran players weren't here BECAUSE the best protoss players defeated about all of them in the qualifiers. Why do you think only 2 korean zergs were able to qualify, 0 korean terrans, yet 5 protosses? Because few months ago when Korean qualifier took place Protoss had advantage over Z and T in Korea. Currently its not true anymore. Stephano, Curious, Roro are top 10 zergs. Sen definitely played like he belonged there as well(although it could mean he ran out of steam eventually). All that means is that Browder is right and the game is evolving. People who think protoss and terran now have it bad need to actually look back to the days of terran dominance to realize what real imbalance is like. Since zerg went "op" 10/24 in top 8 gsl were zerg(8/24 were P). How many zergs were there before? Last 3 seasons? 2/24. Last 10 seasons? 14/80. I hate it when people say things like "terran was OP at the start" While that may be somewhat true you have to agree that not many people actually knew how to play the game then. If you were able to go back in time with the experience players have now it would look a whole lot different IMO. If not for HOTS, same could've been said a year from now, about now. True. But I feel if you revert some of the nerfs (obviously not the completely broken ones) for all races we would have better balance and much more entertaining game. Too many hasty nerfs for the first year the game was out
Trouble is, the early nerfs were built around crap maps.
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The prize distribution should've been better in my opinion. Difference between 1st and 2nd place is 60k and 2nd and 3rd place is 44k.
It makes it seem that if you're not the top tier players that can win tournaments, there's no reason you should be playing, and that doesn't seem right to me.
Great tournament overall though, I enjoyed the hype throughout especially Idra's games haha.
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On November 19 2012 05:10 K3Nyy wrote:
The prize distribution should've been better in my opinion. Difference between 1st and 2nd place is 60k and 2nd and 3rd place is 44k.
It makes it seem that if you're not the top tier players that can win tournaments, there's no reason you should be playing, and that doesn't seem right to me.
Great tournament overall though, I enjoyed the hype throughout especially Idra's games haha.
prize distribution is fine it was supposed to bring out the best in people anyways the difference between first and second SHOULD be huge and so on down
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On November 19 2012 05:14 OhThatDang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:10 K3Nyy wrote:
The prize distribution should've been better in my opinion. Difference between 1st and 2nd place is 60k and 2nd and 3rd place is 44k.
It makes it seem that if you're not the top tier players that can win tournaments, there's no reason you should be playing, and that doesn't seem right to me.
Great tournament overall though, I enjoyed the hype throughout especially Idra's games haha. prize distribution is fine it was supposed to bring out the best in people anyways the difference between first and second SHOULD be huge and so on down
Money doesn't bring out the best of athletes, money doesn't say shit.
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$2000 for dead last is pretty good. That's still a lot of money.
Although the mid tier prizing is a little odd. $8k for Sen @ 4th vs $44k for Creator at second is such a huge gap.
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On November 19 2012 05:10 K3Nyy wrote:
The prize distribution should've been better in my opinion. Difference between 1st and 2nd place is 60k and 2nd and 3rd place is 44k.
It makes it seem that if you're not the top tier players that can win tournaments, there's no reason you should be playing, and that doesn't seem right to me.
Great tournament overall though, I enjoyed the hype throughout especially Idra's games haha.
2k $ and a paid trip should be ok for the last place holders. I don't see a real problem here.
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On November 19 2012 04:44 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 04:41 Rui.S wrote:On November 19 2012 03:56 ReachTheSky wrote:On November 19 2012 03:49 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 03:44 ThaZenith wrote:
Really enjoyed the Rain vs Creator semis, the finals were ok but nothing too special. Still an ok tournament. It shouldn't have been an "OK" tournament. It should have been (and was supposed to be) a "HOLY FUCK THIS IS THE BEST TOURNAMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!" Blizzard is being blown out of the water by their competition yeah i didn't get the super huge tournament feel from this, it was definitely by far the toughest tournament to date though. I just felt the production was nothing close to previous events. Should have hired the dreamhack crew for that i guess. this was not by far the toughest tournament to date -.-, every single gsl is harder than this ... Even WCS Korea was harder :p.
Which you had to get top in to go further...
WSC is the hardest tournament to date, WSC country, WSC regional, WSC World -> champion
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Well, i hope that outspoken community shows and figures have the balls to tell Blizzard into their face what a huge dissappointment this tournament was in terms of production. Not even 50.000 viewers for what should have gone into history as the biggest WoL tournament ever. Too bad that they weren't able or willing to take the world finals away from the production crew, that already botched the asia finals, in order to give it to the dreamhack production crew, who did such an amazing job at the europe finals.
This was a completely uninspirational, unpersonal, badly produced waste of dreams, which produced a few really cool games and moments, but should be forgotten very quickly.
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On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away.
I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event.
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opterown
Australia54748 Posts
On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event.
there are very very few europeans at MLG though
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event.
It's true that all the best players weren't there - but that was mostly because the competition was fierce. Getting to the Global Finals was an insanely difficult feat.
I think the problem is that people think of BWC as a standalone event while it in fact was not - WCS Sweden, Germany, France, Korea, Europe, Asia (and so on) were all stepping stones for the players to get to BWC, and it is easy to argue that some of those events (particularly WCS Korea and Asia) were in fact tougher than BWC itself.
The "best players" (Mvp and MC excluded, okay) all tried to get to BWC, but most didn't make it. Is that good or bad for the end result? Most seem to think the distinct lack of Mvp and co. made BWC less legit. To me, it was more of a testament to how insanely hard it is to stay at the top of the scene.
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On November 19 2012 05:23 TheSir wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:14 OhThatDang wrote:On November 19 2012 05:10 K3Nyy wrote:
The prize distribution should've been better in my opinion. Difference between 1st and 2nd place is 60k and 2nd and 3rd place is 44k.
It makes it seem that if you're not the top tier players that can win tournaments, there's no reason you should be playing, and that doesn't seem right to me.
Great tournament overall though, I enjoyed the hype throughout especially Idra's games haha. prize distribution is fine it was supposed to bring out the best in people anyways the difference between first and second SHOULD be huge and so on down Money doesn't bring out the best of athletes, money doesn't say shit.
that is an ignorant statement....
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On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event.
Pretty much every player of any note took part or tried to qualify for WCS. Notice that WCS stands for World Championship SERIES. WCS encompass all the nationals, the continental finals and the grand finals. Seriously, who's the best player that didn't take part or attempt to take part in that, CombatEx?
If you take the entire pool of everyone that took part in nationals WCS is as stacked a tournament as there ever was.
Also, top Koreans tend to skip MLG pretty damn often. MLG has top Koreans all the time, true, but a lot of them stay home, too.
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On November 19 2012 06:36 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event. Pretty much every player of any note took part or tried to qualify for WCS. Notice that WCS stands for World Championship SERIES. WCS encompass all the nationals, the continental finals and the grand finals. Seriously, who's the best player that didn't take part or attempt to take part in that, CombatEx?If you take the entire pool of everyone that took part in nationals WCS is as stacked a tournament as there ever was. Also, top Koreans tend to skip MLG pretty damn often. MLG has top Koreans all the time, true, but a lot of them stay home, too.
MVP. but i agree with your point overall.
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On November 19 2012 06:46 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 06:36 Fischbacher wrote:On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event. Pretty much every player of any note took part or tried to qualify for WCS. Notice that WCS stands for World Championship SERIES. WCS encompass all the nationals, the continental finals and the grand finals. Seriously, who's the best player that didn't take part or attempt to take part in that, CombatEx?If you take the entire pool of everyone that took part in nationals WCS is as stacked a tournament as there ever was. Also, top Koreans tend to skip MLG pretty damn often. MLG has top Koreans all the time, true, but a lot of them stay home, too. MVP. but i agree with your point overall.
mvp lost in the first round at wcs korea and decided to forfeit
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A guy racing in a dune buggy although nobody pays the guy millions probably tries as hard to win Baja as high paid athletes. Id agree that we perceive it as more epic when theirs 100k involved.
My favorite: Idras run, Lucifron vs. Vortix arguably best series of the day, 3 Americans in top 16, Suppy becoming a tiny star, Day9 mentally breaking over 'Mind Games'
Least favorite: watching HerO cry in his shirt, production nuff said, weak crowd shots and noise, i only saw like first 4 rows and why did they not interact with them ever or do a ground level crowd shot more?
Realizing that beyond like 5 casters all other casters are generic boring people. BTW in a international tournament why do we have 0 female casters (invite SOE?), 0 Asian (Gretorp who should've been there), 0 African American (invite MaximusBlack or TEMPO to cast), 0 Latin caster although there were many Latin competing, the casting community needs more diversity.
No interviews, no half time games and shows, awkward nerdiness, drunk dancing, no Dreamhackiness.
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On November 19 2012 06:09 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:46 HeeroFX wrote:On November 19 2012 01:10 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 01:01 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
well i guess the real world finals would be Code S or MLG finals skillwise. Those WCS finals just didnt have a homogenous skill-level.
I guess you can only solve that by inviting no koreans at all or mostly koreans (atleast 70-90%) MLG feels more prestigious to me which is what this event should have been all about but it turned out to be a $100k give away. I actually agree, MLG is truely international. Even though you know a korean will win it lol. While WCS was international, I felt like the best players weren't all there. MLG has the best players nearly every event. It's true that all the best players weren't there - but that was mostly because the competition was fierce. Getting to the Global Finals was an insanely difficult feat. I think the problem is that people think of BWC as a standalone event while it in fact was not - WCS Sweden, Germany, France, Korea, Europe, Asia (and so on) were all stepping stones for the players to get to BWC, and it is easy to argue that some of those events (particularly WCS Korea and Asia) were in fact tougher than BWC itself. The "best players" (Mvp and MC excluded, okay) all tried to get to BWC, but most didn't make it. Is that good or bad for the end result? Most seem to think the distinct lack of Mvp and co. made BWC less legit. To me, it was more of a testament to how insanely hard it is to stay at the top of the scene.
I can agree with what you're saying, but I still don't like the structure of it. The BWC was always going to be a snore for the most part simply because you could confidently predict the top 3 from the start. Plenty of the groups were irrelevant because the players in it simple were never going to challenge for the title. A tournament series that requires substantially more skill to win its qualifiers (specifically Korea and Asia) than to win the final event is just silly. It undermines the whole thing and makes the final event irrelevant to some extent.
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Did anyone upload all the replays together? Bit of a hassle to go 1 by 1
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On November 19 2012 03:56 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 03:49 magnaflow wrote:On November 19 2012 03:44 ThaZenith wrote:
Really enjoyed the Rain vs Creator semis, the finals were ok but nothing too special. Still an ok tournament. It shouldn't have been an "OK" tournament. It should have been (and was supposed to be) a "HOLY FUCK THIS IS THE BEST TOURNAMENT I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!!!!!!" Blizzard is being blown out of the water by their competition yeah i didn't get the super huge tournament feel from this, it was definitely by far the toughest tournament to date though. I just felt the production was nothing close to previous events. Should have hired the dreamhack crew for that i guess.
Ermm every GSL is tougher than this event was.
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On November 19 2012 04:39 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 04:22 Blacktion wrote:
Thanks ill check them out. Were the Sen-Hero and Vortix-Lucifron games any good? Sen vs HerO was heart-breaking because HerO basically won G4 so hard but lost because of lol Infestor BL, then G5 he did some super-duper 'cute' play, but you can't really play like that against Zerg so he got crushed.
Well honestly you can blame BL/Infestor as much as you want, but that game hero fucked up so much, he had 6 or 7 archons, double vortex (both landed) and Sen had 12 brood lords, about 8 infestors and might of had some corrupters, but even after the vortexes took all but like 2-3 broods, HerO didn't go into the vortex with his archons for ages, thats why he lost, he just a moved his army into Sen, got perfect vortexes and just had his archons attack spine crawlers.
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EPT
