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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
"Better" can be largely subjective anyway. I could probably claim I can name 30 players better than Parting too if maybe I just take a selective memory of GSL games over the course of his playing career. Honestly, with WCS win, despite GSL loss, it's pretty hard to rate Parting anything but top 10 when regarding current form. | ||
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LockeTazeline
2390 Posts
 But all this talk of Parting not being the best player in the world is ridiculous. On November 18 2012 20:56 Waxangel wrote: there's no dichotomy between parting fully deserving to win this tournament and him definitely not being the best in the world D: Seriously. Parting's obviously not the best player in the world (but if some people think so, that's fine. It's not a hard cut status). It's like everyone is arguing with the idea that winning Blizzard World Championship = best player in world when there's in fact no one supporting that opinion (barring Tasteless) Can't we just celebrate the victory for what it's worth instead of blasting it for what it's not. I do hope Blizzard has learned some lessons for the next years though. The prize money is great, but it does feel kind of ridiculous until they solve some issues, namely reducing the amount of American seeds, increasing the amount of (potential) Korean seeds, and better production overall. If they want this tournament to mean something approaching world champion, then the final 32 need to be mostly elite. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On November 19 2012 11:29 LockeTazeline wrote: The whole concept of the tourny is that its a world tournament. If you angle it so its a tourny of the best players in the world it my as well just be hosted in Korea and directly seed in code s gsl players.This is the best waking up present ever. Congratz Parting! But all this talk of Parting not being the best player in the world is ridiculous. Seriously. Parting's obviously not the best player in the world (but if some people think so, that's fine. It's not a hard cut status). It's like everyone is arguing with the idea that winning Blizzard World Championship = best player in world when there's in fact no one supporting that opinion (barring Tasteless) Can't we just celebrate the victory for what it's worth instead of blasting it for what it's not. I do hope Blizzard has learned some lessons for the next years though. The prize money is great, but it does feel kind of ridiculous until they solve some issues, namely reducing the amount of American seeds, increasing the amount of (potential) Korean seeds, and better production overall. If they want this tournament to mean something approaching world champion, then the final 32 need to be mostly elite. World champion means world representation. Period. | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
what the hell, they did great. but yeah, whatevername is right | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On November 19 2012 11:29 LockeTazeline wrote: This is the best waking up present ever. Congratz Parting! But all this talk of Parting not being the best player in the world is ridiculous. Seriously. Parting's obviously not the best player in the world (but if some people think so, that's fine. It's not a hard cut status). It's like everyone is arguing with the idea that winning Blizzard World Championship = best player in world when there's in fact no one supporting that opinion (barring Tasteless) Can't we just celebrate the victory for what it's worth instead of blasting it for what it's not. I do hope Blizzard has learned some lessons for the next years though. The prize money is great, but it does feel kind of ridiculous until they solve some issues, namely reducing the amount of American seeds, increasing the amount of (potential) Korean seeds, and better production overall. If they want this tournament to mean something approaching world champion, then the final 32 need to be mostly elite. Well, Tasteless kind of his to hype this as a caster. Everyone that wins MLG, GSL, etc were also called 'best player in the world' when they were casting so I wouldn't take it too seriously. | ||
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LockeTazeline
2390 Posts
On November 19 2012 11:34 whatevername wrote: The whole concept of the tourny is that its a world tournament. If you angle it so its a tourny of the best players in the world it my as well just be hosted in Korea and directly seed in code s gsl players. World champion means world representation. Period. Yeah, it's a tough balance. But I just don't think that that a $250,000 tournament should have 12 (over 1/3rd) American players. 8 feels more reasonable. I guess overall it's just a difficult idea to put forth in a sport dominated by one country. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
On November 19 2012 12:41 LockeTazeline wrote: Yeah, it's a tough balance. But I just don't think that that a $250,000 tournament should have 12 (over 1/3rd) American players. 8 feels more reasonable. I guess overall it's just a difficult idea to put forth in a sport dominated by one country. Actually a totally interesting discussion, because how do they mix the seeds accordingly? I like how they gave some countries a direct seed for their local championships which obviously then made it unusual NA got 7 seeds from their combined championship when that's only the three countries as opposed to EU's double digits. It's a difficult thing to make sure there's no amazing bias somewhere, and though there is maybe a slight one in NA, it's not incredibly so. I wonder how tempted they were, for example, to seperate KR and asia so china would get more qualifiers for the chinese-based finals in addition to comm and sen. Those roars when Sen was winning were amazing. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On November 19 2012 12:41 LockeTazeline wrote: The more foreigners the more viewers you get. I stopped watching when sen was knocked out, I stopped jumping between streams after the round of eight. Maybe less Americans so theres more Europeans, but certainly not more koreans.Yeah, it's a tough balance. But I just don't think that that a $250,000 tournament should have 12 (over 1/3rd) American players. 8 feels more reasonable. I guess overall it's just a difficult idea to put forth in a sport dominated by one country. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On November 19 2012 14:15 whatevername wrote: The more foreigners the more viewers you get. I stopped watching when sen was knocked out, I stopped jumping between streams after the round of eight. Maybe less Americans so theres more Europeans, but certainly not more koreans. then dont watch sc2, if you cant enjoy koreans, then get out of Teamliquid and join LoL, or alternatively, hope that foreigners actually practice and dont slack around so they can catch up, cause at the moment, koreans arent killing e-sports, they MADE e-sports, foreigners on the other hand are absolutely killing e-sports along with the community | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On November 19 2012 14:21 X3GoldDot wrote: No. I'll just continue to watch foreigners vs koreans and foreigners vs foreigners. then dont watch sc2, if you cant enjoy koreans, then get out of Teamliquid and join LoL, or alternatively, hope that foreigners actually practice and dont slack around so they can catch up, cause at the moment, koreans arent killing e-sports, they MADE e-sports, foreigners on the other hand are absolutely killing e-sports along with the community | ||
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Bowzar
Sweden741 Posts
On November 19 2012 02:45 4ZakeN87 wrote: Okay all retards that responded to this, read a moment and learn something for a change. I know you like Koreans, the best player should win, skill is holy etc. Guess what? All that is completely irrelevant for my statement. That it is bad for SC2 that Korea is dominating completely is not an opinion, it is a fact. It is a matter of observing reality. If you are to buthurt to realize this you are delusional. It is bad for completely obvious reasons that should not even be required to explain. I will however start from the assumption that you are retarded just to be safe and do it anyway. It it is a fact that every tournament that only have Koreans left drop their viewing numbers by 30-50%. <- This part here is same as bad. The fact that WCS EU had the highest viewing number a SC2 event ever had is also odd. How can that be? To make things worse are the people that watch on TL very skilled oriented crowd. People that are here have almost all played RTS or are for one reason or another tactically oriented, this is not the case in average crowd. If take the FIFA world championship for example. When Sweden playing something around 500-1000% more viewers are watching in Sweden compared to when other countries are playing. Let say that Mexico have a better team then Sweden, no one in Sweden are watching Mexico play, cause they plainly don´t give a fuck if they are better or not. Because they want to see the country they belong and relate to compete against the world. That is it . So we know for a fact that it is hurting viewing numbers, we can with 100% certainty say that it is hurting the recruitment of the potential audience even more, and that highest viewing number ever achieved was in tournament with 0 Koreans. Which part of this is it that you want me to explain? Every sport that is heavily dominated by one country is never going to be big. You guys watch landhockey a lot? You like it?What is your favorite player? We in Sweden think it is awesome you see, I watch my neighbouring city team play several times every year. No you don´t watch that? Well guess what, Sweden has won the world championship like 7 times the last 10 years. I agreed with you until you started spouting your so called facts. WCS EU was not the tournament with the highest concurrent viewers, MLG events in 2011 has gotten over 100k and they were all pretty much dominated by Koreans. DHW2011 is Dreamhacks best tournament in terms of concurrent viewers and that was two Koreans battling it out in the finals. IEM last tournament in 2011 got close to 100k and that was also dominated by Koreans. DHS2012 had few Koreans in it and they all got eliminated pretty early on and that tournament peaked at somewhere around 60k. Same thing with Bucharest and it didnt even get over 40k. Dreamhack Valencia peaked at 75k and guess who were in the finals? Taeja and ForGG. Koreans. DHS2012 actually dropped in viewers when Hero got knocked out. Do you want to know why that is? Because Hero is really popular. The reason why tournaments sometimes dip in terms of viewers (and its not even close to your bullshit percentage) when the last foreigner gets knocked out is because that foreigner is usually Stephano, the most popular player in SC2. People want to see the best/most popular players. If Mvp would have gotten eliminated in IEM, viewers most certainly would have dropped. If Koreans are killing SC2 then why the fuck is Iron Squid inviting a bunch of them for their upcoming tournament? Of course it would be better if all foreigners could compete with the Koreans. I dont think anyone is arguing against that, especially since the US is SC2 biggest market and Korea doesnt give a shit about SC2 and add little in terms of viewers. | ||
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jarod
Romania766 Posts
My top 10 rating would be... in any order... the order can vary from week to week... 1.Life 2.Rain 3.Creator 4.Leenock 5.MVP 6.Curious 7.MKP 8.DRG 9.Taeja 10.Symbol Top 10 Foreigners, not even close to top 10 KR: 1.Stephano 2.Scarlet 3.Nerchio 4.Mana 5.Sen 6.Thorzain 7.Naniwa 8.Huk (a lil biased here) 9.Grubby 10.Sheth (if we speak how could they do against koreans) I would put 5 of these 10 guys to play in the world vs korea games. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On November 19 2012 16:34 jarod wrote: From my personal point of view... GZ to Parting, but he is not the best player in the world, not even the best protoss. My top 10 rating would be... in any order... the order can vary from week to week... 1.Life 2.Rain 3.Creator 4.Leenock 5.MVP 6.Curious 7.MKP 8.DRG 9.Taeja 10.Symbol Top 10 Foreigners, not even close to top 10 KR: 1.Stephano 2.Scarlet 3.Nerchio 4.Mana 5.Sen 6.Thorzain 7.Naniwa 8.Huk (a lil biased here) 9.Grubby 10.Sheth (if we speak how could they do against koreans) I would put 5 of these 10 guys to play in the world vs korea games. If you are looking at recent results (ie 3-6 months), I am not sure you can put Curious, MKP, Symbol above PartinG. 3rd WCS Korea, 2nd WCS Asia, 1st WCS World is pretty good... | ||
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stormssc
Poland125 Posts
Also, I think that the lack of hype is primarily caused by the fact that it was held in China. I may be wrong, but I felt that the main stage pretty much belonged to the host (locals), and we - internationals using English - were kind of excluded. 'Our' English casters could only interact with the cameras, and they were seated somewhere at the side of the stage, while it should be more like this: link. In general, I think it was worth watching, whether the games were good or not. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
http://gosugamers.net/starcraft2/downloads.php?cat=4&id=661 OP feel free to add this to the OP | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
On November 19 2012 17:54 stormssc wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that World Champion title =/= best player in the world? IMO Parting is the crowned champion, but not the best player in the world. Same thing applies to other sports too. Naturally, it feels just right that the champion should be the best, but it is quite naive to believe it is so. Also, I think that the lack of hype is primarily caused by the fact that it was held in China. I may be wrong, but I felt that the main stage pretty much belonged to the host (locals), and we - internationals using English - were kind of excluded. 'Our' English casters could only interact with the cameras, and they were seated somewhere at the side of the stage, while it should be more like this: link. In general, I think it was worth watching, whether the games were good or not. The winner of a prestigious tournament is just that. Consistently winning tournaments is what you have to do to get the "best player in the world". MVP* is probably the only player I know of who is consistently getting into and winning finals. Different tournament formats also plays a role. GSL vs MLG for instance. In the GSL you get a lot of time to prepare for the final rounds, while with MLG you usually have less than a day. + Show Spoiler + PartinG didn't play any good in Code S R16 for instance. He probably prepared a whole lot more for WCS. *I am not an MVP fan. Leenock is one of my favourite players. | ||
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bOneSeven
Romania685 Posts
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aseq
Netherlands3975 Posts
PS. Obv. didn't mention Holland with those countries  . | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
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