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On June 26 2012 21:35 rothsbury wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:33 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:32 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:31 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:28 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:25 Toadvine wrote:On June 26 2012 21:20 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 Toadvine wrote:
Honestly though, Infestors are a pretty stupid unit. Massing spellcasters should never be viable, much less as good as mass Infestor is. It's not good against correct response. Have you seen MKP's (demuslim has done this also) mass bio + medivac against infestor ling? The medivacs out-heal the fungal growth and it's really effective. The zerg then needs to include speed banelings (which cuts into infestors, so it's no longer mass infestor) and then the terran has to split well. It's not "herp derp mass infestor -> win" unless the terran plays badly. I'm not saying mass Infestors is optimal, and don't really care about how Zerg matchups play out specifically. Caster units should just never be as versatile and self-sufficient as Infestors, they're supposed to support an army. This is the main reason Ghosts were nerfed, they were too versatile and too good when massed. I really do hope that HotS sees some Infestors nerfs, since they're a really dumb unit right now. Ghosts were nerfed because they were legitimately imbalanced against 3rd tier zerg (though the patch was stupid for this since it nerfed snipe against non-massive). What does it mean for a massed unit to be viable? Does the opponent have to not respond correctly? I wonder what other caster can be massed almost exclusively and do well against any composition... Like I said, "does the opponent have to not respond correctly"? Mass infestors do not do well against any composition. Name the terran composition that they do not do well against. The one Bomber is using in the current game, for example.
Infestors are useful against mech as well. Infested terrans can tank a few siege tank shots, fungal keeps hellions and ravens in place, neural parasite is good against tanks, thors and ravens.
They are not as useful as against bio but they are still good against mech.
Also they are the most important unit again as soon as zerg gets Broodlords. Mech needs Vikings against Broodlords to win and then everything is about Fungal again, if the Vikings get fungal'ed and killed by the corruptos or infested terrans the zerg wins. If the fungal misses and terran has a good amount of vikings left he wins.
Infestors are useful in every composition against every composition. They are always cost-efficient if micro'ed correctly.
That still doesn't mean they are OP but when ghosts were useful against everything they got nerfed heavily (snipe and EMP radius)
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On June 26 2012 21:36 sevia wrote:
I am feeling so vindicated right now.
Mech is the future of TvZ. That game compared to so many failing with marine-tank...
It's one game let's not get excited.
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Lol, ppl really are expecting code b'ers to win from code s'ers..
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On June 26 2012 21:40 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:39 phodacbiet wrote:On June 26 2012 21:38 Heavenlee wrote:On June 26 2012 21:36 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 26 2012 21:35 Heavenlee wrote:On June 26 2012 21:31 avc wrote:On June 26 2012 21:30 nkr wrote:On June 26 2012 21:28 s3rp wrote:On June 26 2012 21:26 nkr wrote:On June 26 2012 21:26 ZenithM wrote:
[quote]
That's the point though. Infestors are good against everything. Ghosts are only good against Infestors. You don't want mass ghosts, but you need mass ghosts to take on that many infestors.
You don't want to execute a strategy that only mildly counters what your opponent is doing without any way of getting back at him if it succeeds and take an offensive stance. And what zerg army is good without infestors? Which means you can have ghosts in any terran army. If you waste too much supply in Ghost the Terran army becomes terrible in direct combat . The zerg army is terrible in direct combat when you disable infestors. No matter what you say, they will never agree that Ghosts have a use any more. They are hopelessly convinced they are useless. I saw Ryung make ghosts against Hero in NASL Playoffs while being a good bit behind v. colossi/high templar/chargelot and he still had great engagements when down on supply. Possibly the only terran I've seen lately actually use ghosts properly the way they did 6 months ago in the HT v Ghost war, instead of just making 0-2 ghosts with 0 emps and getting rolled over by storms. But nope, ghosts are completely worthless. Better make more ravens that do nothing because he doesn't have infinite money to make ghosts as well apparently. I think they were talking abou specifically for TvZ, not in general I'm speaking about the general refusal to make any unit remotely nerfed that is pretty much shared by every race. It's like the second an OP unit is brought in line, it suddenly is deemed worthless to build, then suddenly the race gets completely destroyed because it refuses..to make...the unit. Zergs are still making infestor even after the infestor nerf =) Also Terrans are still using hellions.
and ravens (they were nerfed at birth)
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On June 26 2012 21:40 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:35 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:33 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:32 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:31 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:28 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:25 Toadvine wrote:On June 26 2012 21:20 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 Toadvine wrote:
Honestly though, Infestors are a pretty stupid unit. Massing spellcasters should never be viable, much less as good as mass Infestor is. It's not good against correct response. Have you seen MKP's (demuslim has done this also) mass bio + medivac against infestor ling? The medivacs out-heal the fungal growth and it's really effective. The zerg then needs to include speed banelings (which cuts into infestors, so it's no longer mass infestor) and then the terran has to split well. It's not "herp derp mass infestor -> win" unless the terran plays badly. I'm not saying mass Infestors is optimal, and don't really care about how Zerg matchups play out specifically. Caster units should just never be as versatile and self-sufficient as Infestors, they're supposed to support an army. This is the main reason Ghosts were nerfed, they were too versatile and too good when massed. I really do hope that HotS sees some Infestors nerfs, since they're a really dumb unit right now. Ghosts were nerfed because they were legitimately imbalanced against 3rd tier zerg (though the patch was stupid for this since it nerfed snipe against non-massive). What does it mean for a massed unit to be viable? Does the opponent have to not respond correctly? I wonder what other caster can be massed almost exclusively and do well against any composition... Like I said, "does the opponent have to not respond correctly"? Mass infestors do not do well against any composition. Name the terran composition that they do not do well against. The one Bomber is using in the current game, for example. Infestors are useful against mech as well. Infested terrans can tank a few siege tank shots, fungal keeps hellions and ravens in place, neural parasite is good against tanks, thors and ravens. They are not as useful as against bio but they are still good against mech. Also they are the most important unit again as soon as zerg gets Broodlords. Mech needs Vikings against Broodlords to win and then everything is about Fungal again, if the Vikings get fungal'ed and killed by the corruptos or infested terrans the zerg wins. If the fungal misses and terran has a good amount of vikings left he wins. Infestors are useful in every composition against every composition. They are always cost-efficient if micro'ed correctly. That still doesn't mean they are OP but when ghosts were useful against everything they got nerfed heavily (snipe and EMP radius)
This, essentially, is the point I couldn't be bothered to properly make.
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Hi Angella, yes I did have a great week, thanks for asking <3
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On June 26 2012 21:40 Yello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:35 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:33 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:32 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:31 The KY wrote:On June 26 2012 21:28 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:25 Toadvine wrote:On June 26 2012 21:20 rothsbury wrote:On June 26 2012 21:17 Toadvine wrote:
Honestly though, Infestors are a pretty stupid unit. Massing spellcasters should never be viable, much less as good as mass Infestor is. It's not good against correct response. Have you seen MKP's (demuslim has done this also) mass bio + medivac against infestor ling? The medivacs out-heal the fungal growth and it's really effective. The zerg then needs to include speed banelings (which cuts into infestors, so it's no longer mass infestor) and then the terran has to split well. It's not "herp derp mass infestor -> win" unless the terran plays badly. I'm not saying mass Infestors is optimal, and don't really care about how Zerg matchups play out specifically. Caster units should just never be as versatile and self-sufficient as Infestors, they're supposed to support an army. This is the main reason Ghosts were nerfed, they were too versatile and too good when massed. I really do hope that HotS sees some Infestors nerfs, since they're a really dumb unit right now. Ghosts were nerfed because they were legitimately imbalanced against 3rd tier zerg (though the patch was stupid for this since it nerfed snipe against non-massive). What does it mean for a massed unit to be viable? Does the opponent have to not respond correctly? I wonder what other caster can be massed almost exclusively and do well against any composition... Like I said, "does the opponent have to not respond correctly"? Mass infestors do not do well against any composition. Name the terran composition that they do not do well against. The one Bomber is using in the current game, for example. Infestors are useful against mech as well. Infested terrans can tank a few siege tank shots, fungal keeps hellions and ravens in place, neural parasite is good against tanks, thors and ravens. They are not as useful as against bio but they are still good against mech. Also they are the most important unit again as soon as zerg gets Broodlords. Mech needs Vikings against Broodlords to win and then everything is about Fungal again, if the Vikings get fungal'ed and killed by the corruptos or infested terrans the zerg wins. If the fungal misses and terran has a good amount of vikings left he wins. Infestors are useful in every composition against every composition. They are always cost-efficient if micro'ed correctly. That still doesn't mean they are OP but when ghosts were useful against everything they got nerfed heavily (snipe and EMP radius)
They are still useful against everything as infestors are still the core of every zerg composition. Ultras without fungal are terrible; same goes for broods.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 26 2012 21:40 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:39 Pandemona wrote:
So...Who else is about to get 8/8 on Liquibet? xD
Was pretty easy to cool these first 8 imo. 7/8 :/ Only got Jjakji vs Monster wrong.
 Oh dear! Next time!
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I'm not really into asian chicks but...hai there.
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YES GNN EPISODE TWO REPLAY!!! XD
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Who is that lovely lady :O!? :D
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Best part of the series start now @@
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GNN on again, or fap time round 2
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"If it's not Nestea or Mvp it'll be fine." - MC
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37055 Posts
Poll: Liquibet?8/8 BABY! (21) 64% 7/8 - 5/8 :) (10) 30% 4/8 - 2/8 :/ (1) 3% Lower :( (1) 3% 33 total votes Your vote: Liquibet? (Vote): 8/8 BABY!
(Vote): 7/8 - 5/8 :)
(Vote): 4/8 - 2/8 :/
(Vote): Lower :(
FIRST EVER 8/8 FOR ME XD XD XD
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haha mc wanted to faceanyone
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On June 26 2012 21:40 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:39 phodacbiet wrote:On June 26 2012 21:38 Heavenlee wrote:On June 26 2012 21:36 Shellshock1122 wrote:On June 26 2012 21:35 Heavenlee wrote:On June 26 2012 21:31 avc wrote:On June 26 2012 21:30 nkr wrote:On June 26 2012 21:28 s3rp wrote:On June 26 2012 21:26 nkr wrote:On June 26 2012 21:26 ZenithM wrote:
[quote]
That's the point though. Infestors are good against everything. Ghosts are only good against Infestors. You don't want mass ghosts, but you need mass ghosts to take on that many infestors.
You don't want to execute a strategy that only mildly counters what your opponent is doing without any way of getting back at him if it succeeds and take an offensive stance. And what zerg army is good without infestors? Which means you can have ghosts in any terran army. If you waste too much supply in Ghost the Terran army becomes terrible in direct combat . The zerg army is terrible in direct combat when you disable infestors. No matter what you say, they will never agree that Ghosts have a use any more. They are hopelessly convinced they are useless. I saw Ryung make ghosts against Hero in NASL Playoffs while being a good bit behind v. colossi/high templar/chargelot and he still had great engagements when down on supply. Possibly the only terran I've seen lately actually use ghosts properly the way they did 6 months ago in the HT v Ghost war, instead of just making 0-2 ghosts with 0 emps and getting rolled over by storms. But nope, ghosts are completely worthless. Better make more ravens that do nothing because he doesn't have infinite money to make ghosts as well apparently. I think they were talking abou specifically for TvZ, not in general I'm speaking about the general refusal to make any unit remotely nerfed that is pretty much shared by every race. It's like the second an OP unit is brought in line, it suddenly is deemed worthless to build, then suddenly the race gets completely destroyed because it refuses..to make...the unit. Zergs are still making infestor even after the infestor nerf =) Also Terrans are still using hellions.
In what way? The blue flame nerf? No one goes BFH against zerg anymore really. And the queen nerf, it's for map control in general in the first place it seems.
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On June 26 2012 21:40 nkr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2012 21:40 Mowr wrote:
Good to get rid of a bunch of clueless mediocre zergs. Sorry fanboys, that was bad play. terrans are always great players!
Jjakji and Bomber certainly are.
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Yeah... seriously.
Move aside Smix. Angella in da house.
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EPT
