On June 26 2012 21:36 sevia wrote: I am feeling so vindicated right now.
Mech is the future of TvZ. That game compared to so many failing with marine-tank...
It's not, going mech has lost MKP and MVP many a game, freaky just scouted it way too late, scouted mech dies to roach drops and multipronged agression, at least that's what we've seen in the recent tvzs.
Why cant I? Why were everybody telling bomber to make ghosts? But he didnt, as he know, that they aren't as good as they used to be. In old times, Terran could mass Ghosts and win, just like Zerg did now with infestors. I wish ghosts werent that useless as they are now in TvZ
Dude, what did they change that Ghosts became useless against Infestor only? i3owkri3uj2453456425325832589325
That's the point though. Infestors are good against everything. Ghosts are only good against Infestors. You don't want mass ghosts, but you need mass ghosts to take on that many infestors. You don't want to execute a strategy that only mildly counters what your opponent is doing without any way of getting back at him if it succeeds and take an offensive stance.
And what zerg army is good without infestors? Which means you can have ghosts in any terran army.
If you waste too much supply in Ghost the Terran army becomes terrible in direct combat .
The zerg army is terrible in direct combat when you disable infestors.
No matter what you say, they will never agree that Ghosts have a use any more. They are hopelessly convinced they are useless.
I saw Ryung make ghosts against Hero in NASL Playoffs while being a good bit behind v. colossi/high templar/chargelot and he still had great engagements when down on supply. Possibly the only terran I've seen lately actually use ghosts properly the way they did 6 months ago in the HT v Ghost war, instead of just making 0-2 ghosts with 0 emps and getting rolled over by storms. But nope, ghosts are completely worthless. Better make more ravens that do nothing because he doesn't have infinite money to make ghosts as well apparently.
I think they were talking abou specifically for TvZ, not in general
I'm speaking about the general refusal to make any unit remotely nerfed that is pretty much shared by every race. It's like the second an OP unit is brought in line, it suddenly is deemed worthless to build, then suddenly the race gets completely destroyed because it refuses..to make...the unit.
Zergs are still making infestor even after the infestor nerf =)
On June 26 2012 21:17 Toadvine wrote: Honestly though, Infestors are a pretty stupid unit. Massing spellcasters should never be viable, much less as good as mass Infestor is.
It's not good against correct response. Have you seen MKP's (demuslim has done this also) mass bio + medivac against infestor ling? The medivacs out-heal the fungal growth and it's really effective. The zerg then needs to include speed banelings (which cuts into infestors, so it's no longer mass infestor) and then the terran has to split well. It's not "herp derp mass infestor -> win" unless the terran plays badly.
I'm not saying mass Infestors is optimal, and don't really care about how Zerg matchups play out specifically. Caster units should just never be as versatile and self-sufficient as Infestors, they're supposed to support an army. This is the main reason Ghosts were nerfed, they were too versatile and too good when massed. I really do hope that HotS sees some Infestors nerfs, since they're a really dumb unit right now.
Ghosts were nerfed because they were legitimately imbalanced against 3rd tier zerg (though the patch was stupid for this since it nerfed snipe against non-massive). What does it mean for a massed unit to be viable? Does the opponent have to not respond correctly?
I wonder what other caster can be massed almost exclusively and do well against any composition...
Like I said, "does the opponent have to not respond correctly"? Mass infestors do not do well against any composition.
Name the terran composition that they do not do well against.
The one Bomber is using in the current game, for example.
..you can definitely go infestor against mech and be perfectly comfortable.
What, so just mass infestor without any supporting units? Super viable, man. You should tell freaky to stop wasting his time with this roach and/or ling nonsense.
Infestor/roach into broods, not pure infestor.
Alright so I was SLIGHTLY exaggerating, you can't go pure infestor against every single thing. But then again you were talking about ghosts originally and you can't go pure ghosts against...well anything.
On June 26 2012 21:36 Koshi wrote: We lost 3 zergs to code B today. Sad day.
But terran's are not supposed to beat zergs :O
No! You dont understand! These zergs are playing terribly! Only when they win are they considered imba
dude u realise who the terrans were ? for god sake theyre the absolute best in the world, no terran is objectively better than the ones who played today
Dude, what did they change that Ghosts became useless against Infestor only? i3owkri3uj2453456425325832589325
That's the point though. Infestors are good against everything. Ghosts are only good against Infestors. You don't want mass ghosts, but you need mass ghosts to take on that many infestors. You don't want to execute a strategy that only mildly counters what your opponent is doing without any way of getting back at him if it succeeds and take an offensive stance.
And what zerg army is good without infestors? Which means you can have ghosts in any terran army.
If you waste too much supply in Ghost the Terran army becomes terrible in direct combat .
The zerg army is terrible in direct combat when you disable infestors.
No matter what you say, they will never agree that Ghosts have a use any more. They are hopelessly convinced they are useless.
I saw Ryung make ghosts against Hero in NASL Playoffs while being a good bit behind v. colossi/high templar/chargelot and he still had great engagements when down on supply. Possibly the only terran I've seen lately actually use ghosts properly the way they did 6 months ago in the HT v Ghost war, instead of just making 0-2 ghosts with 0 emps and getting rolled over by storms. But nope, ghosts are completely worthless. Better make more ravens that do nothing because he doesn't have infinite money to make ghosts as well apparently.
I think they were talking abou specifically for TvZ, not in general
I'm speaking about the general refusal to make any unit remotely nerfed that is pretty much shared by every race. It's like the second an OP unit is brought in line, it suddenly is deemed worthless to build, then suddenly the race gets completely destroyed because it refuses..to make...the unit.
Zergs are still making infestor even after the infestor nerf =)
On June 26 2012 21:36 sevia wrote: I am feeling so vindicated right now.
Mech is the future of TvZ. That game compared to so many failing with marine-tank...
I'm sorry to break it to you but Mech just loses to a roach max with drops at 13-14 mins if your opponent scouts you before choosing their tech path.
Yeah Mech i really fragile, hard to pull it off. It can be very strong, but i don't think it's better then biomech or bio/air or pure bio, just a different style. Different styles are good on different maps
Atlast full liquidbet, it's been a while. Not too hard to predict today though ^^