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Nicely done by Naniwa. Keeping the foreigner hope alive!
Creator looked good but his play is still very unpolished. He's a work-in-progress, much like Maru.
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On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. (...) As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever.
Uhhh... this statement is no less ridiculous.
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On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup.
Naniwa made a run through MLG (Providence?) where he crushed many zergs, even Koreans (Nestea? not sure) and he eventually lost in the finals to leenock who used some risky all-ins. I thinks Naniwa would be fine in PvZ with practise, but there isnn't as much call to practice it.
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On June 13 2012 03:24 TheBB wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. (...) As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Uhhh... this statement is no less ridiculous.
NaNiwas PvZ is crazy good actually. There was a time, like a year ago, when he struggled abit with it. But he has beaten many strong zergs since then.(Not Lucky tho!!)
Edit: @lorestarcraft
He beat Seth, Leenock and Nestea in a row i belive. And then lost to DRG.
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On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup.
Only in the mind of the delusional Naniwa hater would this make even the least bit of sense.
Naniwa hadn't trained for PvZ in the last 3 months as he never had a Zerg in his GSL group. Ask any professional player to not play a matchup in 3 months, play against Hyun who is a strong former BW player, Nerchio who is a solid foreign Zerg and Slivko who beat HuK and has done good for himself and no professional player could win.
Furthermore, PvZ and PvT aren't even remotely alike. TvP and TvZ can sometimes be similar because you can go bio in both. PvZ and PvT are just so unlike eachother which is why we have JYP, a PvZ expert but a PvT trash can or PartinG a PvT expert but a mediocre PvZ.
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So much hate for Naniwa. Give the guy a break, why can't people just be happy he's doing well?
Go Nani :D
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W00T W00T! Naniwa, kicking ass!
Really proud of him. ^_^
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On June 13 2012 02:04 hayata2.0 wrote:
Naniwa manages to (magically) dodge PvZ again. A good thing for him, I'd presume.
Well, if I'm not mistaken MMA won his GSL without facing a single Protoss 
Sometimes luck plays a big role, but I still believe Naniwa can take anyone on PvZ.
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On June 13 2012 04:00 Slangen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 03:24 TheBB wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. (...) As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Uhhh... this statement is no less ridiculous. NaNiwas PvZ is crazy good actually. There was a time, like a year ago, when he struggled abit with it. But he has beaten many strong zergs since then.(Not Lucky tho!!) Edit: @lorestarcraft He beat Seth, Leenock and Nestea in a row i belive. And then lost to DRG.
He did beat Sheth, Leenock and Nestea and lost to DRG. But not in MLG providence. He did that in the winter arena IIRC. So he has had atleast 2 very good PvZ runs. Before DH where he lost 0-6 against 3 decent zergs. he had no reason at all to practice PvZ. Well, I guess he had a reason but from what he said he didnt due to having only Ps and Ts left in GSL. It might be the reason he lost, well just have to see i guess.
Naniwa hwaiting! Even though he seems to be a douchebag of great proportion hes still the best hope we have in GSL. I dont see Thorzain doing nearly this well.
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i was right. yeahhhhhhhhhh. go nani and nestea
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On June 13 2012 02:30 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. What big risks did SaSe take? Stephano was the one who did a baneling bust mate
He took a super fast risky third on Cloud Kingdom but lucky for him Stephano was going ling/infestor not roaches or muta's. He also went double robo collosus just as he took his third which is again so risky because any muta build or big roach push crushes that.
He did an extremely low econ two base all in on metropolis where he's dead if Stephano doesn't lose there.
Sase took clever risks because he knew he needed to take risks in order to beat Stephano in his worst match up.
On June 13 2012 03:28 lorestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Naniwa made a run through MLG (Providence?) where he crushed many zergs, even Koreans (Nestea? not sure) and he eventually lost in the finals to leenock who used some risky all-ins. I thinks Naniwa would be fine in PvZ with practise, but there isnn't as much call to practice it.
Why are you bringing up games from seven months ago?
On June 13 2012 04:03 Kluey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Only in the mind of the delusional Naniwa hater would this make even the least bit of sense. Naniwa hadn't trained for PvZ in the last 3 months as he never had a Zerg in his GSL group. Ask any professional player to not play a matchup in 3 months, play against Hyun who is a strong former BW player, Nerchio who is a solid foreign Zerg and Slivko who beat HuK and has done good for himself and no professional player could win. Furthermore, PvZ and PvT aren't even remotely alike. TvP and TvZ can sometimes be similar because you can go bio in both. PvZ and PvT are just so unlike eachother which is why we have JYP, a PvZ expert but a PvT trash can or PartinG a PvT expert but a mediocre PvZ.
MC would slap those kids down without training vs Zerg no problem because he's historically great vs Zerg.
Naniwa is historically bad vs Zerg although he's picked up a few wins by three collosus pushing off two bases as his 57% win rate internationally and 0% win rate in Korea suggests.
Naniwa has a 35% win rate vs Zerg in 2012 (TLPD). There's no way anyone can pretend he isn't poor vs Zerg.
On June 13 2012 02:54 l_Kyo_l wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 02:13 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 02:10 MattBarry wrote:On June 13 2012 02:06 radiantshadow92 wrote:On June 13 2012 02:04 hayata2.0 wrote:
Naniwa manages to (magically) dodge PvZ again. A good thing for him, I'd presume. im really getting tired of him getting by with pvp. It makes him look like the best foregnor when his pvz and pvt probably arent as good Yeah Naniwa never beat MVP and Nestea or anything. Results from seven months ago are very relevant. Seven months ago MMA was the best player in the world and MarineKing was a washed up has been. People like you seriously should never post on these forums. You act like you know "exactly" how a player is playing at that moment in time due to tournament results. Here is a new tip: Players may not "seem" as good as they are due to brackets, schedules, how they feel, etc they may not do as well in that exact setting as another player. Therefore, just because one player appears better than another to main stream viewers this does not mean he's "actually" better. MMA and MKP have been, and always will be, very good players. MMA always has the chance to do incredibly well, and MKP has the same talent. Saying one was a washed up has been proves you have zero knowledge of how volatile this game is, and this is amplified even more so for other races.
erm...that was kind of the point of my post.
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On June 13 2012 05:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 02:30 hugman wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. What big risks did SaSe take? Stephano was the one who did a baneling bust mate He took a super fast risky third on Cloud Kingdom but lucky for him Stephano was going ling/infestor not roaches or muta's. He also went double robo collosus just as he took his third which is again so risky because any muta build or big roach push crushes that. He did an extremely low econ two base all in on metropolis where he's dead if Stephano doesn't lose there. Sase took clever risks because he knew he needed to take risks in order to beat Stephano in his worst match up. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 03:28 lorestarcraft wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Naniwa made a run through MLG (Providence?) where he crushed many zergs, even Koreans (Nestea? not sure) and he eventually lost in the finals to leenock who used some risky all-ins. I thinks Naniwa would be fine in PvZ with practise, but there isnn't as much call to practice it. Why are you bringing up games from seven months ago? Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 04:03 Kluey wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Only in the mind of the delusional Naniwa hater would this make even the least bit of sense. Naniwa hadn't trained for PvZ in the last 3 months as he never had a Zerg in his GSL group. Ask any professional player to not play a matchup in 3 months, play against Hyun who is a strong former BW player, Nerchio who is a solid foreign Zerg and Slivko who beat HuK and has done good for himself and no professional player could win. Furthermore, PvZ and PvT aren't even remotely alike. TvP and TvZ can sometimes be similar because you can go bio in both. PvZ and PvT are just so unlike eachother which is why we have JYP, a PvZ expert but a PvT trash can or PartinG a PvT expert but a mediocre PvZ. MC would slap those kids down without training vs Zerg no problem because he's historically great vs Zerg. Naniwa is historically bad vs Zerg although he's picked up a few wins by three collosus pushing off two bases as his 57% win rate internationally and 0% win rate in Korea suggests. Naniwa has a 35% win rate vs Zerg in 2012 (TLPD). There's no way anyone can pretend he isn't poor vs Zerg. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 02:54 l_Kyo_l wrote:On June 13 2012 02:13 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 02:10 MattBarry wrote:On June 13 2012 02:06 radiantshadow92 wrote:On June 13 2012 02:04 hayata2.0 wrote:
Naniwa manages to (magically) dodge PvZ again. A good thing for him, I'd presume. im really getting tired of him getting by with pvp. It makes him look like the best foregnor when his pvz and pvt probably arent as good Yeah Naniwa never beat MVP and Nestea or anything. Results from seven months ago are very relevant. Seven months ago MMA was the best player in the world and MarineKing was a washed up has been. People like you seriously should never post on these forums. You act like you know "exactly" how a player is playing at that moment in time due to tournament results. Here is a new tip: Players may not "seem" as good as they are due to brackets, schedules, how they feel, etc they may not do as well in that exact setting as another player. Therefore, just because one player appears better than another to main stream viewers this does not mean he's "actually" better. MMA and MKP have been, and always will be, very good players. MMA always has the chance to do incredibly well, and MKP has the same talent. Saying one was a washed up has been proves you have zero knowledge of how volatile this game is, and this is amplified even more so for other races. erm...that was kind of the point of my post.
umm what? So Sase's all in is a stupid move despite it being a great idea vs Stephano, but Stephano's all ins are fine? Now in reference to the "risky" third that he took, do you not think that perhaps in this imaginary world of Sase can actually think like a pro player that he did this based on what he saw/scouted? Man. Hate much?
Why are you ignoring games from seven months ago? Because players change over time? Hmm. Perhaps you should allow for the fact that Naniwa could practice up on PvZ and change too. It's a two way street.
Naniwa HAS beaten the top Zerg players in the past and COULD do it again. Would he be favored against many of the top players like DRG? Nope, but he'd stand a shot anyways.
I am not a Naniwa fanboy by any means btw, but you definitely come off as an irrational hater. He beat two very solid players today. Creator being the ladder king atm with 70%++ win rates on 3 seperate accounts... give him some credit.
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LOL no nani vs nestea, but
THEY BOTH ADVANCE WOOHOO!! NICE!
nestea 2-0 and 2-1!!! very nice! seems like he's in form! (too bad he dropped a game, but that's ok lol)
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On June 13 2012 05:49 mrtomjones wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 05:23 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 02:30 hugman wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. What big risks did SaSe take? Stephano was the one who did a baneling bust mate He took a super fast risky third on Cloud Kingdom but lucky for him Stephano was going ling/infestor not roaches or muta's. He also went double robo collosus just as he took his third which is again so risky because any muta build or big roach push crushes that. He did an extremely low econ two base all in on metropolis where he's dead if Stephano doesn't lose there. Sase took clever risks because he knew he needed to take risks in order to beat Stephano in his worst match up. On June 13 2012 03:28 lorestarcraft wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Naniwa made a run through MLG (Providence?) where he crushed many zergs, even Koreans (Nestea? not sure) and he eventually lost in the finals to leenock who used some risky all-ins. I thinks Naniwa would be fine in PvZ with practise, but there isnn't as much call to practice it. Why are you bringing up games from seven months ago? On June 13 2012 04:03 Kluey wrote:On June 13 2012 01:48 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 00:11 [17]Purple wrote:
Would people consider NaNiwa a "StarTale" Protoss? He would be wouldn't he since he has lived and trained there for such a long time and would SaSe count as well? I think he is a Startale Protoss much like Huk was an oGs Protoss. He's lived in the Startale house for about 8 months now (and iirc he lived in it before that for a while before the Complexity/MVP partnership) which is a long, long time in Sc2 terms. No doubt they've shaped his play far more than Quantic, Dignitas or Complexity ever did. On June 13 2012 00:26 -TesteR- wrote:On June 13 2012 00:23 Bam Lee wrote:On June 13 2012 00:17 -TesteR- wrote:
Nani legit Code S protoss, holy fuck needs to show his pvz skill still despite nani saying pvz is his worst, it should be okay. especially considering his closest teammate (SaSe) just killed stephano's "unbeatable zvp" Only in the mind of the delusional foreign fanboy would this make even the least bit of sense. It's so unfathomably ridiculous it barely merits comment. Inca and MC were pretty close too, but MC slays Zergs in his sleep and Inca is the worst PvZ player (alongside Mana) in professional Starcraft. As for the Sase/Stephano series Stephano was due a loss in ZvP given he hasn't lost vs a foreign Protoss in what seems like forever. Despite the result I thought Stephano looked the better player and Sase took a lot of big risks (realising he wasn't going to beat Stephano without gambling) and I would expect Stephano to win if it was a best of 7 or should they meet again. Naniwa's only played 8 games on PvZ in the last three months (and none since April) in which he managed: vs Hyun 0-2 Loss vs Nerchio 0-2 Loss vs Slivko 0-2 Loss vs Denkan 2-0 Win. I have no idea who Denkan is and his 0-6 overall record on TLPD suggests he's an ameatur so vs actual players Naniwa's manage 0 wins and 6 losses since March suggest his PvZ is at best unproven and at worst a liability. Three months is definitely enough time to turn things around but given he's not played Zergs for months I imagine he hasn't been training his PvZ much either so isn't too likely to have stumbled across a revolution in his play. Not that having terrible PvZ (theoretically, it's unproven really) stops him being a Code S level player. Loads of Code S level players are a bit useless in one matchup. Only in the mind of the delusional Naniwa hater would this make even the least bit of sense. Naniwa hadn't trained for PvZ in the last 3 months as he never had a Zerg in his GSL group. Ask any professional player to not play a matchup in 3 months, play against Hyun who is a strong former BW player, Nerchio who is a solid foreign Zerg and Slivko who beat HuK and has done good for himself and no professional player could win. Furthermore, PvZ and PvT aren't even remotely alike. TvP and TvZ can sometimes be similar because you can go bio in both. PvZ and PvT are just so unlike eachother which is why we have JYP, a PvZ expert but a PvT trash can or PartinG a PvT expert but a mediocre PvZ. MC would slap those kids down without training vs Zerg no problem because he's historically great vs Zerg. Naniwa is historically bad vs Zerg although he's picked up a few wins by three collosus pushing off two bases as his 57% win rate internationally and 0% win rate in Korea suggests. Naniwa has a 35% win rate vs Zerg in 2012 (TLPD). There's no way anyone can pretend he isn't poor vs Zerg. On June 13 2012 02:54 l_Kyo_l wrote:On June 13 2012 02:13 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On June 13 2012 02:10 MattBarry wrote:On June 13 2012 02:06 radiantshadow92 wrote:On June 13 2012 02:04 hayata2.0 wrote:
Naniwa manages to (magically) dodge PvZ again. A good thing for him, I'd presume. im really getting tired of him getting by with pvp. It makes him look like the best foregnor when his pvz and pvt probably arent as good Yeah Naniwa never beat MVP and Nestea or anything. Results from seven months ago are very relevant. Seven months ago MMA was the best player in the world and MarineKing was a washed up has been. People like you seriously should never post on these forums. You act like you know "exactly" how a player is playing at that moment in time due to tournament results. Here is a new tip: Players may not "seem" as good as they are due to brackets, schedules, how they feel, etc they may not do as well in that exact setting as another player. Therefore, just because one player appears better than another to main stream viewers this does not mean he's "actually" better. MMA and MKP have been, and always will be, very good players. MMA always has the chance to do incredibly well, and MKP has the same talent. Saying one was a washed up has been proves you have zero knowledge of how volatile this game is, and this is amplified even more so for other races. erm...that was kind of the point of my post. umm what? So Sase's all in is a stupid move despite it being a great idea vs Stephano, but Stephano's all ins are fine? Now in reference to the "risky" third that he took, do you not think that perhaps in this imaginary world of Sase can actually think like a pro player that he did this based on what he saw/scouted? Man. Hate much? Why are you ignoring games from seven months ago? Because players change over time? Hmm. Perhaps you should allow for the fact that Naniwa could practice up on PvZ and change too. It's a two way street. Naniwa HAS beaten the top Zerg players in the past and COULD do it again. Would he be favored against many of the top players like DRG? Nope, but he'd stand a shot anyways. I am not a Naniwa fanboy by any means btw, but you definitely come off as an irrational hater. He beat two very solid players today. Creator being the ladder king atm with 70%++ win rates on 3 seperate accounts... give him some credit.
It was a smart risks to take, which is exactly what I said from the start but if you play risky like that you can take best of three's but you won't win most of the time. There's a massive difference between Sase turning up with some slick builds and hardcore outclassing Stephano and him taking a few risks and marginally edging out Stephano in a very close series where the games he won were a held baneling bust (where he still almost lost) and a super low eco immortal 2 base all in. If Sase and Stephano were to play again tomorrow, anyone with a brain with bet on Stephano to win.
By the way Stephano's decision to baneling was indeed pretty stupid but as he beat Sase pretty easilly in game 1 he probably figured he'd take a third game pretty easily if his bust failed. Stephano seemed very over confident in game 2/3 and that's what cost him the series.
I did allow for that, I even said exactly that. You should try actually reading.
Anyone could beat anyone, Gumiho beat Mvp, Sase beat Stephano, Naniwa beat DRG, Goody beat Nestea but it's still unlikely which was my point. Naniwa is capable of beating any Zerg just as any professional can beat any professional but overall Naniwa is poor vs Zerg as his 35% win rate in 2012 vs Zerg suggests.
I haven't even commented on his play today at any point in this thread.
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STEPHANO IN CODE S PLZ :D
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Naniwa vs Thorzain finals WOOHOO Here we come!!!
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Haha, I accidentally liquibetted Creator>Naniwa in the first match and got really sad. I still liquibetted Nestea/Naniwa to advance though. Lucky me.
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so whats an actual legitimate reason to hate naniwa? someone tell me.
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On June 13 2012 04:32 Trowa127 wrote:
So much hate for Naniwa. Give the guy a break, why can't people just be happy he's doing well?
Go Nani :D
It's very rarely the players that are hated, it's usually the fan-base that people hate and therefor attack the players.
Best example is stephano fans.
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On June 13 2012 07:30 Talack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 04:32 Trowa127 wrote:
So much hate for Naniwa. Give the guy a break, why can't people just be happy he's doing well?
Go Nani :D It's very rarely the players that are hated, it's usually the fan-base that people hate and therefor attack the players. Best example is stephano fans.
Yeah, those damn fans who kept believing in the player they support, just soo annoying! Stop cheering for the player you like!
'Annoying fans' is just yet another excuse for having an irrational dislike of a public persona. For some it starts out with the "Korean Bias", feeling pain when watching anyone other than Koreans be competitive, for some it's a dislike of a public appearance and for some it simply begins with the discomfort of seeing people happy while you yourself feel shit after watching the player you cheered for loose. In either case, from that moment forward, anything and everything will be taken as evidence of the bad intentions and mediocre play of the player and confirm just how that particular player's fans are so much worse than all other fans.
In any case, all you can say is: Haters gonna hate!
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EPT
