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On April 26 2012 09:37 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded. SuperNoVa have better TvZ and TvP than aLive. aLive is a good TvTer thought.
I think people should be more careful about calling "player X has a better XvX than player Y". Remember that we have a very small number of official games to judge from, and you dont really know how good a player is performing in different matchups in the practice house/on ladder. People often call out players for being bad in a certain matchup, based on just a handful of broadcasted games, only to have their predictions completley shattered when the player plays an amazing series in that particular matchup.
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On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way.
"He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? Right now, PartinG is a very dominant player. Regardless of how he has performed in the past.
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On April 26 2012 09:37 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded. SuperNoVa have better TvZ and TvP than aLive. aLive is a good TvTer thought.
keep on living in your dreamworld.
aLives recent wins against Protoss and Zerg
MC IronSquid
Leenock IronSquid
PartinG IPL
Squirtle IPL
NesTea IPL
SuperNoVa can only compete with aLive in TvZ
bye
PS ur grammar is horrible, get singular and plural in order.
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"He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament?
Better example would be DRG up until he won a GSL
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On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals.
As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
[quote]
None of these events mean anything.
Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament?
He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it.
In fact I don't think anyone's ever dominated this game. Maybe Mvp at a stretch but he was still losing in plenty of tournaments even at his peak.
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On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it.
"dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers.
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On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:
[quote]
Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it.
He just won his group in Code S today, beating MKP who has arguably the best TvP in the world right now. Today, he was dominant, regardless of how he performed in MLG. As the poster above you said, DRG was feared as one of the most dominant players in Korea before he even got into Code S.
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On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME.
Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career?
Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational?
He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers.
I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters.
No players has ever achieved that in Sc2.
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On April 26 2012 09:50 SilentBonjwa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:37 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded. SuperNoVa have better TvZ and TvP than aLive. aLive is a good TvTer thought. keep on living in your dreamworld. aLives recent wins against Protoss and Zerg MC IronSquid Leenock IronSquid PartinG IPL Squirtle IPL NesTea IPL SuperNoVa can only compete with aLive in TvZ bye PS ur grammar is horrible, get singular and plural in order.
still better than yours 
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On April 26 2012 09:58 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME.
Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career?
Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational?
He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. He just won his group in Code S today, beating MKP who has arguably the best TvP in the world right now. Today, he was dominant, regardless of how he performed in MLG. As the poster above you said, DRG was feared as one of the most dominant players in Korea before he even got into Code S.
I think you need to look up the definition of the word dominant. You can't be one of the most dominant players. You either dominate or you don't.
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Parting finally got his revenge lol
Took em long enough.
Was part of the reason that MKP dropped to Code A
Hehe
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On April 26 2012 09:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:
[quote]
He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers. I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters. No players has ever achieved that in Sc2.
Being dominant is not the same thing as being a bonjwa. PartinG is currently the most dominant player in PvT. I dont agree with your definition of "dominance".
if you look it up in the dictionary, "Dominant" pretty much means "having the upper hand". Currently, PartinG has a dominant PvT record and he dominated his group today in code S. Artosis often uses the phrase "player x has been dominating this matchup lately". I think you put a little too much value into the word dominant.
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On April 26 2012 10:06 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters.
Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers. I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters. No players has ever achieved that in Sc2. Being dominant is not the same thing as being a bonjwa. PartinG is currently the most dominant player in PvT. I dont agree with your definition of "dominance". if you look it up in the dictionary, "Dominant" pretty much means "having the upper hand". Currently, PartinG has a dominant PvT record and he dominated his group today in code S. Artosis often uses the phrase "player x has been dominating this matchup lately". I think you put a little too much value into the word dominant.
Well for one thing we're talking about my mother tongue, so yes I do know the definitions of words. Parting probably is dominant in PvT. But he's nothing more than a run of the mill Code S Protoss in the other two matchups.
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On April 26 2012 10:00 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:58 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:
[quote]
He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. He just won his group in Code S today, beating MKP who has arguably the best TvP in the world right now. Today, he was dominant, regardless of how he performed in MLG. As the poster above you said, DRG was feared as one of the most dominant players in Korea before he even got into Code S. I think you need to look up the definition of the word dominant. You can't be one of the most dominant players. You either dominate or you don't.
sight, you can apply the word dominant in several different contexts. the way you are looking at it, you seem to refer to dominant as in "the MOST dominant player for now and the past months".
But you can also apply the word to smaller context and say something like "This player has really dominated this matchup for the past weeks".
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I want to dedicate this post to all those people that thought Parting was trying his best at MLG and that his PvT was overrated. Let you all remember this day as a day when you were horribly horribly wrong. ~_^
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On April 26 2012 10:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 10:06 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:
[quote]
But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games).
The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers. I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters. No players has ever achieved that in Sc2. Being dominant is not the same thing as being a bonjwa. PartinG is currently the most dominant player in PvT. I dont agree with your definition of "dominance". if you look it up in the dictionary, "Dominant" pretty much means "having the upper hand". Currently, PartinG has a dominant PvT record and he dominated his group today in code S. Artosis often uses the phrase "player x has been dominating this matchup lately". I think you put a little too much value into the word dominant. Well for one thing we're talking about my mother tongue, so yes I do know the definitions of words. Parting probably is dominant in PvT. But he's nothing more than a run of the mill Code S Protoss in the other two matchups.
The funny thing is that even if a Parting's "run-of-the-mill" in two match-ups, he still might win this GSL if everything in the brackets falls out correctly.
And don't forget that DRG used to be only dominant in ZvT, with "run-of-the-mill" ZvP and ZvZ.
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On April 26 2012 10:05 Disengaged wrote:
Parting finally got his revenge lol
Took em long enough.
Was part of the reason that MKP dropped to Code A
Hehe
PartinG must have prepared a shitload for this particular match after his frustrating loss in Las Vegas.
at last justice has been made.
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On April 26 2012 10:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 10:06 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:
[quote]
But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games).
The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers. I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters. No players has ever achieved that in Sc2. Being dominant is not the same thing as being a bonjwa. PartinG is currently the most dominant player in PvT. I dont agree with your definition of "dominance". if you look it up in the dictionary, "Dominant" pretty much means "having the upper hand". Currently, PartinG has a dominant PvT record and he dominated his group today in code S. Artosis often uses the phrase "player x has been dominating this matchup lately". I think you put a little too much value into the word dominant. Well for one thing we're talking about my mother tongue, so yes I do know the definitions of words. Parting probably is dominant in PvT. But he's nothing more than a run of the mill Code S Protoss in the other two matchups.
I dont think his PvZ and PvP has really been put to test enough for us to judge his position in those matchups yet. There is always the possibility of improvement, i think a player of his caliber can easily become very strong in every matchup if he practices hard enough. He displayed completley outstanding micro today against MKP (wolf nicked him the "StalkerKing") and he is already known for his very steady macro and patience/game sense so he obviously has the mechanics required to become an overall dominant player. Im positive that he can become a major competitor in every matchup. The future will tell.
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On April 26 2012 10:15 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 10:08 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 10:06 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:58 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:57 lorkac wrote:On April 26 2012 09:54 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:49 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:41 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
[quote]
None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals.
I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment. Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way. "He is not dominant, he has never won a tournament" is a very flawed argument. Just because you havent dominated in the past doesnt mean you cant be dominant in the present. Do you think FruitDealer is a more dominant player (right now) than PartinG just because he won a GSL tournament? He's not dominant in the present either though. Just last weekend he finished 7th at MLG, the only guy who did worse was the guy who wasn't even Korean. How can you be dominant without winning? Winning is the only criteria for judging whether someone is dominant and Parting has never done it. "dominant" is actually a highly subjective term that is very much dependent on the performance of your peers. I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters. No players has ever achieved that in Sc2. Being dominant is not the same thing as being a bonjwa. PartinG is currently the most dominant player in PvT. I dont agree with your definition of "dominance". if you look it up in the dictionary, "Dominant" pretty much means "having the upper hand". Currently, PartinG has a dominant PvT record and he dominated his group today in code S. Artosis often uses the phrase "player x has been dominating this matchup lately". I think you put a little too much value into the word dominant. Well for one thing we're talking about my mother tongue, so yes I do know the definitions of words. Parting probably is dominant in PvT. But he's nothing more than a run of the mill Code S Protoss in the other two matchups. And don't forget that DRG used to be only dominant in ZvT, with "run-of-the-mill" ZvP and ZvZ.
Yeah, and when MC won his first GSL championship he was mostly known for having a dominant PvT, wrecking the meta-game with his voidray+stalker pushes.
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I'd say a player in dominant in Starcraft when he has a 70% minimum win rate in all matchups across at least a 4 month period, has a winning ratio vs all players in all matchups and wins around 50% of the tournaments he enters.
No players has ever achieved that in Sc2.
I think the time frames is hard to compare between SC:BW and SC2 since there are many more tournaments in a given time frame. SC:BW only had proleague, OSL/MSL and WCG once a year... Basically any BW player making 1 good run in OSL/MSL will satisfy your criteria...
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EPT
