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On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now. Show nested quote +
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything.
I thought TaeJa fanboys keep spamming how he is the Korean weekly Bonjwa
and how he is Top 3 Terran due to that, lol
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On April 26 2012 03:18 noddy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:06 Dodgin wrote:
Damn Marineking lost, I guess he's not the best player in the world after all.
This comment doesn't make sense at all. He still has by far the best results in 2012
Uh no he doesn't. DRG won a GSL and an MLG, with 2 second places at MLGs, won the King of Kongs and FXOIS 5. MKP won 2 MLGs, with a second place at MLG, and a second place at FXOIS 5. Both players were in all of these events. Even if you somehow argue that MLG is worth more than GSL, or add in the GSTL finals (which some would dispute), there is no way that MKP's results are "by far" better than DRG's.
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On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now.
Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches.
TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more.
MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again.
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All these best player statements..
Let's look at the ONLY REAL best players in the past
Nestea
MC
MVP
Both in their period of dominance with multiple GSL wins. Nestea may have had the briefest but he went undefeated in his 3rd title. Had the title of best ZvZ and ZvP in his prime
MVP, the most recent went on a rampage last year. He was the best at TvT and tied with MMA for best TvZ. TvP wasn't really shown as Protoss was at it's weakest in his time.
MC I think by far had the biggest impact on his "best" player in the world winning multiple tournies outside Korea as well as the first to win 2 GSL titles. In his prime he had the best PvT, PvZ, and PvP.
These three earned their "best player in the world"
To say that MKP is the best due to a huge fanbase and 2 MLG is very premature. He still loses TvT's and TvP's. Right now there is no "best player in the world".
Just look at the 3 I mentioned and compare them to who you're calling best player in the world right now. They don't even compare
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On April 26 2012 08:31 Severian wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 03:18 noddy wrote:On April 26 2012 03:06 Dodgin wrote:
Damn Marineking lost, I guess he's not the best player in the world after all.
This comment doesn't make sense at all. He still has by far the best results in 2012 Uh no he doesn't. DRG won a GSL and an MLG, with 2 second places at MLGs, won the King of Kongs and FXOIS 5. MKP won 2 MLGs, with a second place at MLG, and a second place at FXOIS 5. Both players were in all of these events. Even if you somehow argue that MLG is worth more than GSL, or add in the GSTL finals (which some would dispute), there is no way that MKP's results are "by far" better than DRG's.
ooohh shit's heating up.
DRG fans against MKP fans.
Keep it civil, guys!
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On April 26 2012 08:40 power-overwhelming wrote:
All these best player statements..
Let's look at the ONLY REAL best players in the past
Nestea
MC
MVP
Both in their period of dominance with multiple GSL wins. Nestea may have had the briefest but he went undefeated in his 3rd title. Had the title of best ZvZ and ZvP in his prime
MVP, the most recent went on a rampage last year. He was the best at TvT and tied with MMA for best TvZ. TvP wasn't really shown as Protoss was at it's weakest in his time.
MC I think by far had the biggest impact on his "best" player in the world winning multiple tournies outside Korea as well as the first to win 2 GSL titles. In his prime he had the best PvT, PvZ, and PvP.
These three earned their "best player in the world"
To say that MKP is the best due to a huge fanbase and 2 MLG is very premature. He still loses TvT's and TvP's. Right now there is no "best player in the world".
Just look at the 3 I mentioned and compare them to who you're calling best player in the world right now. They don't even compare
I think MC was the briefest if anything and the weakest of the three until recently. Now he's the best.
Nestea was the best in all three match ups for sure among zergs, until DRG began to live up to the hype again towards the end of 2011 and Leenock turned into a super saiyan, while Nestea went into a nosedive. Not to mention, Nestea was significantly better than the other zergs for a very long time. Closest opposition until DRG was Losira for him, and Nestea spanked his ass. 2/3 of his gsl wins were during the dark ages for Zergs as well.
MVP dominated the most, due to being both insanely solid and intelligent, and the metagame at the time being very good for Terran (remember GomTvT).
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On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational?
He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG.
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On April 26 2012 08:55 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:40 power-overwhelming wrote:
All these best player statements..
Let's look at the ONLY REAL best players in the past
Nestea
MC
MVP
Both in their period of dominance with multiple GSL wins. Nestea may have had the briefest but he went undefeated in his 3rd title. Had the title of best ZvZ and ZvP in his prime
MVP, the most recent went on a rampage last year. He was the best at TvT and tied with MMA for best TvZ. TvP wasn't really shown as Protoss was at it's weakest in his time.
MC I think by far had the biggest impact on his "best" player in the world winning multiple tournies outside Korea as well as the first to win 2 GSL titles. In his prime he had the best PvT, PvZ, and PvP.
These three earned their "best player in the world"
To say that MKP is the best due to a huge fanbase and 2 MLG is very premature. He still loses TvT's and TvP's. Right now there is no "best player in the world".
Just look at the 3 I mentioned and compare them to who you're calling best player in the world right now. They don't even compare I think MC was the briefest if anything and the weakest of the three until recently. Now he's the best. Nestea was the best in all three match ups for sure among zergs, until DRG began to live up to the hype again towards the end of 2011 and Leenock turned into a super saiyan, while Nestea went into a nosedive. Not to mention, Nestea was significantly better than the other zergs for a very long time. Closest opposition until DRG was Losira for him, and Nestea spanked his ass. 2/3 of his gsl wins were during the dark ages for Zergs as well. MVP dominated the most, due to being both insanely solid and intelligent, and the metagame at the time being very good for Terran (remember GomTvT).
MC had a huge disadvantage because of him playing protoss and protoss being at a pretty huge disadvantage in the meta-game for almost a year. I dont think protoss was ever underpowered, but i think the Maps used in GSL vastly favored Zergs macro style and Terran 1/1/1 all-ins for a very long time. Take it with a grain of Salt, but MC once said "if i played terran i would have won my third GSL a long time ago"
I also think that out of Nestea, MVP and MC, MC was the one who looked the most dominant and completley unstoppable during his reign. He won pretty much every tournament he entered and he looked completley unstoppable in every matchup. MVP always looked beatable in TvP and Nestea has never won a series against MC AFAIK.
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On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG.
No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters.
Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986.
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On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again.
SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive.
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On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive.
He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much.
Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player.
Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded.
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On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986.
But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games).
The Official game is not "all that matters" if you wanna name MKP the best player in the world. PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world.
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On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world.
None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals.
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On April 26 2012 09:31 opterown wrote:hey guys, i won't be able to LR tonight, so if someone's up for making a thread please do 
How come you did it? SeeKer normally does these.
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On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals.
I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment.
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On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded.
SuperNoVa have better TvZ and TvP than aLive.
aLive is a good TvTer thought.
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On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded.
lol dont take him serious, he always pops up when aLive comes to the debate as one of the best terrans.
aLive doesnt have a real weak matchup anymore, he is the best TvT in the world, Top 3 TvP, Top 5 TvZ
Supernova isnt Top 3 in any matchup.
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On April 26 2012 09:36 sc2holar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:34 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:31 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 09:24 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:17 sc2holar wrote:On April 26 2012 08:26 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:24 HolyArrow wrote:On April 26 2012 08:16 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 08:13 HolyArrow wrote:
Well, you also ignore Iron Squid, and since you're counting the small MLG Arenas, it seems fair to count Iron Squid. I'm kind of sad that you mentioned the 4-kill in the GSTL final merely because I'm of the opinion that that wouldn't have happened had the disconnect not occurred, and that's opening up an entirely new can of worms, so I won't say anything more about that. If he wins Iron Squid it's worth a mention for sure, but making the LAN part isn't really a huge deal, not in the face of multiple MLG finals. As for GSTL the disconnect doesn't go down on the records. MKP beat four players, that's all that matters now.
Also, Alive won the RaidCall invitational and the NASL Season 3 qualifiers, both of which had very strong players in them. One point that benefits your side is that MKP also won the KSL Grand Opening, but, also, Alive took the ESV TV Korean Weekly Season 2 #2.
None of these events mean anything. Ah, so none of those tournament accomplishments mean anything, but a 4-kill does matter? Clearly, you're just choosing which events have meaning and which ones don't at your convenience, and, if you have to resort to that, I see no point in continuing this discussion. It matters because it's the BIGGEST TEAM LEAGUE TOURNAMENT IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Scoring a four kill in the GSTL final is like scoring a hat trick in the Champions League final. It is a massive deal. If Pro League used all kill in the finals and Flash went and 4 killed SKT you don't think that wouldn't be one of the biggest results of his career? Why am I needing to explain to you why soloing the GSTL finals is better than winning KSL or some FXO invitational? He lost to Parting and everyone, including MKP, knows it. If it wasnt for the clueless referees he would not have performed a 4-kill. Im not saying he didnt do a very good job in the GSTL though, as he obviously won those games except for the one against PartinG. No he didn't lose. He won the official game that took place and that is all that matters. Argentina won a world cup because Maradona cheated, does that mean Argentina did not win the world cup in 1986? Because when I go on the Fifa website it appears they in fact did win the World Cup in 1986. But everyone with a clue knows that the first game was over for him and that the insane decision to have a rematch threw PartinG of tilt. Yeah sure, he won the "official" rematch game, but everyone knows that PartinG had him dead in the first match and PartinG got his revenge today in Code S (i guess you could say Parting and MKP are now 3:2 in gomTV games). The Official game is not "all that matters". PartinG had him dead in the first game, so you have to put that into consideration if you are gonna count his games and name him the best player in the world. None of that is remotely relevant to whether MKP beat 4 people in a GSTL finals. I already said MKP proved himself by beating all the other ST players, and prime did win the GSTL final. but it IS relevant if you wanna call him the best player in the world, as he has lost 3 games to PartinG, who seems to be the more dominant player at the moment.
Parting is my favourite Protoss player and hopefully he wins this Code S but the guy's never even won a tournament, he's not even close to dominant in any way.
I never argued MKP was the best in the world either (he's the best Terran). Him and DRG are basically neck and neck. Breaking even with Parting in PvT results is the kind of thing the best in the world would do though, MKP is no bonjwa, you don't need to rape everyone in all matchups to be the worlds best player, you just need to be a tiny bit better than the guy in second place.
On April 26 2012 09:37 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 09:30 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 09:26 dragonborn wrote:On April 26 2012 08:40 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 08:27 Nick_54 wrote:On April 26 2012 07:13 SilentBonjwa wrote:On April 26 2012 06:53 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:On April 26 2012 05:57 SilentBonjwa wrote:
PartinG so good ^_^
glad to see MKP out, and he still cant prove to be the best terran definetly.
glad for TaeJa too, my prediction was true and his mirror is trustworthy, even under pressure.
MKP has easily proven he's the best Terran in the world right now. sorry aLive did better the past 2 months. won IPL, Iron Squid semi finals (still running), Code S Top 4, and Code S Top 8 before that. MKP won stuff, but failed to go past Code S Top 16 this season as well as the previous 2 or 3 seasons. Cant see him better than aLive, or even MMA. This argument is pretty much accurate, even if slightly biased could be confirmed by any neutral observator Lets begin with GSL January as our starting point. Alive makes it to the round of 4 while MKP gets knocked out in third of his ro16 group. MKP wins MLG winter arena where Alive doesn't participate. MKP wins MLG winter championship and ALive comes in 9th-12th. Alive wins IPL and MKP takes 5th-6th. GSL April MKP finishes third in his ro16 group and Alive finishes 4th in his ro32 group. GSTL MKP goes 10 wins and 1 loss finishing 3 teams off. Iron Squid Alive is in the ro 4 and could win and MKP finishes 5th-8th. MKP takes second in MLG Spring Arena MKP won 2 tournaments and Alive won 1 with the potential of a second. They played in 4 tournaments together, MKP did better twice Alive did better twice. MKP made it to the finals of 3 tournaments and Alive made it to the final of 1 or possibly 2. MKP dominated GSTL to go along with this. As a fan of both players I'll take MKP's results any day. Also MMA is slumping pretty hard, so I'm not putting him into the equation for now. To be honest MVP or even SuperNoVa or Taeja could grab the title as best T if they win the GSL in impressive enough fashion, but I think its MKP for now. Supernova is a LOT weaker than MKP, aLive, MMA or even Jjakji, MVP, TaeJa and Polt. he simply doesnt have any worthy achievements in his whole career, and is a regular guest in the Up and down matches. TaeJa is ranked with 5700 $ at SC2Earnings.com - Uhm I dont think so....tho hes a player who could achieve so much more. MVP is just MVP, we all know in what state he is, and its sad but he cant compare with MKP and aLive in 2012, BUT hes still the most dominant Terran in 2011, and if healthy certainly capable to take the Top spot again. SuperNoVa is better and more well rounded than aLive. He's better in TvZ, that's about it and even then not by much. Alive has won a major tournament and made it futher in GSL than Supernova ever has. He's a better player. Supernova is also awful at foreign tournament where as Alive is good at them, again making Alive more rounded. SuperNoVa have better TvZ and TvP than aLive. aLive is a good TvTer thought.
It's really easy to write that someone has good XvX or is better at XvX than someone else. What's not easy is listing the major tournaments players have won.
Alive has won a major tournament, one of the biggest of 2012. Supernova has drifted around in mediocrity and failed to win IEM Brazil which was essentially made for him to win.
That's why Alive is better than Supernova.
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EPT
