On April 25 2012 21:50 Fubi wrote: the better player didnt go through
The better player was clearly Taeja. What was your point again?
Marineking beats Taeja comfortably in the first two games when Taeja is playing really well.
Taeja beat Marineking comfortably when Marineking is playing terribly.
I don't follow your logic?
Taeja played well after losing quite badly MKP played bad after losing quite badly
The better player did win
MKP just had bad games. Take him rested BO 21 - he would crush Taeja twice the score. Taeja is not better player, just played better in last 2 games..
Probably not that bad. Taeja is very, very good, and deserved every win he got. MKP may have been exhaused, may have been tilted, but them's the breaks.
Zerg going out, Protoss doing well, tournaments happening one after the other, that stuff will happen. I'm just saying that players should roll with the punches and circumstances, and Parting and Taeja did that today, TheSTC and MKP didn't.
I'm a fan of: MKP, DRG, Nestea, Genius. Now that they're all out, sadly, I need someone to root for. Maru?
Parting of course. Dont you like the art of surgically dismantling terrans? If he can put up good fight vs Protoss, he deserves to win it all.
I'm iffy about rooting for him. Love his play [that stalker micro!], but I can't help but feeling that many of his fans are actually MKP antifans in disguise @_@.
NANIWA.
Was rooting for MKP, Parting and Hero so far. Too bad MKP is out. Well, Taeja wins were alright, but i doubt he will make it to the final.
On April 25 2012 22:18 Megabuster123 wrote: If Protoss wins this GSL I foresee a lot of Terran balance qq'ing.
There already IS a lot of Terran balance qqing, if my ladder experience is anything to go by. I'd just like Blizzard to figure out a way to fix the problem Terran's had since beta with its early game being so much stronger than its late.
Yeah, but now it's just regular QQ like every race goes through.
But imagine every terran gets knocked out and we're left with PvP's in the Ro4?
I don't want to be in the LR on that day.
The thing is that Terran will still be OP in the eyes of the community xD. Terrans won't ever catch a break lol.
I'm still pissed about the fact that it took Terrans something like a year after the game's release to figure out that BFH were really broken. That's why I'm not sympathizing with Terrans quite yet. I think there might be some answers the pros haven't dug out.
You really shouldn't sympathize with anyone. Terrans will figure something out. Someone always does.
There was, as far as I can tell, no way for Zerg to deal with 5 Rax Reaper. The way the build worked made it literally unstoppable. It was set up to perfectly defeat Zergling/Spine/Queen play, and if a Roach switch occurred, it was perfectly situated to handle that with Marauders. Prior to the NUMEROUS Reaper nerfs, there was no way for Zerg to properly handle that composition. When Terrans lost, it was due to their own bad micro, not because the Zerg was playing particularly well. There are cases of complete and utter imbalance in this game, and that was one of them. I don't think any race right now is in the position Zerg was in back then, but if that ever turned out to be the case, I would sympathize with the race caught in such a horrible position. Sometimes, balance patches DO need to come through.
i agree about the 5rax reaper, but sometimes its good to hestitate and wait out the meta-game before you patch.
just look at how PvZ has been for the past months, it seemed almost as if protoss was in a position similiar to Zerg vs 5rax reaper. Maps where too big for 3gate expo builds, and Zergs had figured out how to really punish FFE. It seemed hopeless, Stephano style roach aggression and mass mutalisk looked unstoppable. But then a few Hero(es) rised and showed the world how to prevail with great multitasking and sick timings.
I'd like to quote myself:
I'm still pissed about the fact that it took Terrans something like a year after the game's release to figure out that BFH were really broken. That's why I'm not sympathizing with Terrans quite yet. I think there might be some answers the pros haven't dug out.
On April 25 2012 21:50 Fubi wrote: the better player didnt go through
The better player was clearly Taeja. What was your point again?
Marineking beats Taeja comfortably in the first two games when Taeja is playing really well.
Taeja beat Marineking comfortably when Marineking is playing terribly.
I don't follow your logic?
Taeja played well after losing quite badly MKP played bad after losing quite badly
The better player did win
MKP just had bad games. Take him rested BO 21 - he would crush Taeja twice the score. Taeja is not better player, just played better in last 2 games..
Probably not that bad. Taeja is very, very good, and deserved every win he got. MKP may have been exhaused, may have been tilted, but them's the breaks.
Zerg going out, Protoss doing well, tournaments happening one after the other, that stuff will happen. I'm just saying that players should roll with the punches and circumstances, and Parting and Taeja did that today, TheSTC and MKP didn't.
I'm a fan of: MKP, DRG, Nestea, Genius. Now that they're all out, sadly, I need someone to root for. Maru?
Parting of course. Dont you like the art of surgically dismantling terrans? If he can put up good fight vs Protoss, he deserves to win it all.
I'm iffy about rooting for him. Love his play [that stalker micro!], but I can't help but feeling that many of his fans are actually MKP antifans in disguise @_@.
NANIWA.
Heroooooooooooooo and Parting too. Also MVP. Man... Mvp. I love the kid so much, he was the first player to make me ask myself how the hell he does the things he does.
On April 25 2012 22:34 sc2holar wrote: This season has a very clear storyline: The Return of the Protoss
Starring: The Protoss president, MC The Protoss foreigner of hope, Naniwa The Protoss that rules them all, PartinG The Protoss that likes 2 base, Squirtle The Protoss of Lodoss, Oz
On April 25 2012 22:15 Asha` wrote: I wonder whether we'll see players start to eschew travelling to MLG's and stuff like that when they're still in the GSL.
I don't think it was the prime cause of MKP's collapse but I do think being tired and somewhat jetlagged after his NY trip may have been part of the reason why he fell apart quite so quickly.
Doubt it. MLG is a lot of money to pass up for such a small time commitment.
Are you trolling or is that sarcasm, cuz I can't tell. MLG is 5k, and that's IF you win, definitely not worth risking your chances at the most prestige tournament in the world.
It's a weekend. That's an incredibly short amount of time. In addition, you get favorable placement in future MLG events. Korean players go to foreign events for the money. There's a lot of money to be had. I think you're overrating the importance of the GSL. Just because it's "the most prestig[ious] tournament in the world" does not make it as profitable as going to many smaller events. For example, look at Stephano. He's ranked so highly in earnings, and has never touched the GSL. That's because there's a lot of money to be had outside of it.
I don't disagree with you that there are more money in the foreign scene. I'm just disagreeing with you saying that MLG has good prize pool; as 5k definitely is one of the lower prize pool of any foreign tourneys.
Also, a weekend is a lot. The tourney itself is 3 days, but you have to remember it takes a day to pack up, get ready and fly there, and then takes another day to do the same to fly back and settle down. That is at least 5 days of practices that you lose. You only have like what, 2 weeks to prepare between your games? 5 days out of 2 weeks is a lot of practice time. And I'm not even counting things like jet-lag and physical exhaustion from travelling.
You forget the value of good placement in future MLG events. The more you play with them, the easier it is to land in the money. These guys are professionals, and made this decision for a reason: it makes them money. There are other pros who value high placement in events over their own pay, such as NaNiwa's training session prior to MLG Providence. However, these are not such pros. They value their income above all, which is a completely legitimate choice to make. It would be nice to see everyone focus on pure improvement, but... well, it's their job to make money. I can't criticize them for doing just that.
I see it the other way around actually. Because you have to realize, another reason why GSL is so important is that this is one of the only two ways for Koreans players to actually get invited to the "gold farm" that is in the other foreign tournaments that you mentioned (the other being simply join a foreign team). So if you don't do well in GSL, you won't even get recognized and get to go to these foreign events in the first place to make this kind of money
Even MC have mentioned several times during his previous slump that he'll stop going to foreign events for awhile to get back in shape. And there are just as many cases where players stayed behind to train. MKP today is just another scenario where most people would agree that him not going would of been a better decision in the end.
On April 25 2012 22:34 sc2holar wrote: This season has a very clear storyline: The Return of the Protoss
Starring: The Protoss president, MC The Protoss foreigner of hope, Naniwa The Protoss that rules them all, PartinG The Protoss that likes 2 base, Squirtle The Protoss of Lodoss, Oz
you forgot The Shadow Protoss, Inca
he also forgot the Protoss who just beat a GSL champion and knocked out two finalists...
So TaeJa sent home DRG in Ro32 and now MKP in Ro16, wow.
After MKP defeated TaeJa so easily in the second match, I did not expect this outcome. But I'm happy for Liquid having both their players -- who are new to Code S -- advance to Ro8 and thus be directly qualified for Code S next season. Now hoping for a Liquid to make the finals (will make it even better when I'm there live in Seoul ).
Shame about MKP, but with such stacked favorites in Code S there will always be disappointment and sadness no matter who goes down. It's definitely good to see new blood being cycled in as well, so long as the old favorites will still be around. Anyways, I'm sure MKP will bounce right back into Code S winning his single Bo3 Code A match.
On April 25 2012 22:51 Proseat wrote: So TaeJa sent home DRG in Ro32 and now MKP in Ro16, wow.
After MKP defeated TaeJa so easily in the second match, I did not expect this outcome. But I'm happy for Liquid having both their players -- who are new to Code S -- advance to Ro8 and thus be directly qualified for Code S next season. Now hoping for a Liquid to make the finals (will make even better when I'm there live in Seoul ).
Shame about MKP, but with such stacked favorites in Code S there will always be disappointment and sadness no matter who goes down. It's definitely good to see new blood being cycled in as well, so long as the old favorites will still be around. Anyways, I'm sure MKP will bounce right back into Code S winning his single Bo3 Code A match.
Yeah, he has a great shot of immediately getting back into Code S. His opponent in Code A is either Yugioh/Lure
On April 25 2012 22:15 Asha` wrote: I wonder whether we'll see players start to eschew travelling to MLG's and stuff like that when they're still in the GSL.
I don't think it was the prime cause of MKP's collapse but I do think being tired and somewhat jetlagged after his NY trip may have been part of the reason why he fell apart quite so quickly.
Doubt it. MLG is a lot of money to pass up for such a small time commitment.
Are you trolling or is that sarcasm, cuz I can't tell. MLG is 5k, and that's IF you win, definitely not worth risking your chances at the most prestige tournament in the world.
It's a weekend. That's an incredibly short amount of time. In addition, you get favorable placement in future MLG events. Korean players go to foreign events for the money. There's a lot of money to be had. I think you're overrating the importance of the GSL. Just because it's "the most prestig[ious] tournament in the world" does not make it as profitable as going to many smaller events. For example, look at Stephano. He's ranked so highly in earnings, and has never touched the GSL. That's because there's a lot of money to be had outside of it.
I don't disagree with you that there are more money in the foreign scene. I'm just disagreeing with you saying that MLG has good prize pool; as 5k definitely is one of the lower prize pool of any foreign tourneys.
Also, a weekend is a lot. The tourney itself is 3 days, but you have to remember it takes a day to pack up, get ready and fly there, and then takes another day to do the same to fly back and settle down. That is at least 5 days of practices that you lose. You only have like what, 2 weeks to prepare between your games? 5 days out of 2 weeks is a lot of practice time. And I'm not even counting things like jet-lag and physical exhaustion from travelling.
You forget the value of good placement in future MLG events. The more you play with them, the easier it is to land in the money. These guys are professionals, and made this decision for a reason: it makes them money. There are other pros who value high placement in events over their own pay, such as NaNiwa's training session prior to MLG Providence. However, these are not such pros. They value their income above all, which is a completely legitimate choice to make. It would be nice to see everyone focus on pure improvement, but... well, it's their job to make money. I can't criticize them for doing just that.
I see it the other way around actually. Because you have to realize, another reason why GSL is so important is that this is one of the only two ways for Koreans players to actually get invited to the "gold farm" that is in the other foreign tournaments that you mentioned (the other being simply join a foreign team). So if you don't do well in GSL, you won't even get to go to these foreign events in the first place to make this kind of money
Even MC have mentioned several times during his previous slump that he'll stop going to foreign events for awhile to get back in shape. And there are just as many cases where players stayed behind to train. MKP today is just another scenario where most people would agree that him not going would of been a better decision in the end.
If you're in Code S, chances are you're already in the gold farm. It's only Code A players that really need concern themselves with hardcore practice. Code S players have already "made it", so to speak.
Also, Parting was in the exact same boat as MKP, and won nonetheless. Perhaps MKP would have been able to win if he had tossed aside the $5000 and the seed. My gut says no. Parting was just playing too well. It wasn't a problem with jet lag, it was a problem with Parting being nigh-unstoppable when he really gets going in PvT. After that, it was an issue with nerves, which also has nothing to do with jet lag. So that's why I reject your thesis.
On April 25 2012 22:18 Megabuster123 wrote: If Protoss wins this GSL I foresee a lot of Terran balance qq'ing.
There already IS a lot of Terran balance qqing, if my ladder experience is anything to go by. I'd just like Blizzard to figure out a way to fix the problem Terran's had since beta with its early game being so much stronger than its late.
Yeah, but now it's just regular QQ like every race goes through.
But imagine every terran gets knocked out and we're left with PvP's in the Ro4?
I don't want to be in the LR on that day.
The thing is that Terran will still be OP in the eyes of the community xD. Terrans won't ever catch a break lol.
I'm still pissed about the fact that it took Terrans something like a year after the game's release to figure out that BFH were really broken. That's why I'm not sympathizing with Terrans quite yet. I think there might be some answers the pros haven't dug out.
You really shouldn't sympathize with anyone. Terrans will figure something out. Someone always does.
There was, as far as I can tell, no way for Zerg to deal with 5 Rax Reaper. The way the build worked made it literally unstoppable. It was set up to perfectly defeat Zergling/Spine/Queen play, and if a Roach switch occurred, it was perfectly situated to handle that with Marauders. Prior to the NUMEROUS Reaper nerfs, there was no way for Zerg to properly handle that composition. When Terrans lost, it was due to their own bad micro, not because the Zerg was playing particularly well. There are cases of complete and utter imbalance in this game, and that was one of them. I don't think any race right now is in the position Zerg was in back then, but if that ever turned out to be the case, I would sympathize with the race caught in such a horrible position. Sometimes, balance patches DO need to come through.
To be fair, we don't know if there was a way to deal with 5 rax reaper or not because it just got nerfed. I feel like balance patches occur too frequently in starcraft 2.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a zerg and I hated that shit but still. People cry balance too quickly I think. We'll see though.
People were also significantly worse at starcraft 2 back during 5 rax reaper as well. Army control, positioning, macro, etc was just shittier. So I'm not sure how broken anything was back then as opposed to how terrible we all were at the game.
On April 25 2012 22:07 Fionn wrote: I 'unno, I still see a lot of storylines out there. Yeah, MKP was one of the bigger ones, but you still got Naniwa, MVP's last stand with his wrists falling apart at the seems, the potential of a Liquid vs. Liquid semifinal, and maybe even Maru, not only usurping MarineKing, but becoming the youngest champion by a mile and being the first Royal Roader. Also you have Parting vs. MC in their back-and-forth feud for the Protoss presidency.
Im blue eyed when it comes to MC vs Parting. MC will always be the Protoss President for me…
On April 25 2012 22:51 Proseat wrote: So TaeJa sent home DRG in Ro32 and now MKP in Ro16, wow.
After MKP defeated TaeJa so easily in the second match, I did not expect this outcome. But I'm happy for Liquid having both their players -- who are new to Code S -- advance to Ro8 and thus be directly qualified for Code S next season. Now hoping for a Liquid to make the finals (will make even better when I'm there live in Seoul ).
Shame about MKP, but with such stacked favorites in Code S there will always be disappointment and sadness no matter who goes down. It's definitely good to see new blood being cycled in as well, so long as the old favorites will still be around. Anyways, I'm sure MKP will bounce right back into Code S winning his single Bo3 Code A match.
Yeah, he has a great shot of immediately getting back into Code S. His opponent in Code A is either Yugioh/Lure
He may be the King of Marines... but how will he fare against the King of Code A?
I'm terrible. I'm only a fan of YuGiOh because of that title.
EPT
).
