|
Lol, overall matchup favors Zerg? Have you seen the GSL results?
|
Assuming either July or Leenock loses next round, it will be the 4th time in the last 5 GSL where there has only been 1 zerg in the Ro8 in code S.
|
On April 15 2012 01:32 lorkac wrote:
Holy crap--we might have our second PvT final!
Don't be silly, we both know it'll be TvT  . I think a MC vs MKP finals would make for a sick series.
|
GODANG IT NESTEA T_T
good luck next time =/
|
damn virus is playing well, watching the vods and i'm loving his play vs mc game 1. im sad that nestea is out but at least i get to watch an interesting tvp :D
|
|
|
On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle?
this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran
virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished
|
On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished
Yes of course, because 2or 3 fungals and some banelings can't destroy 50-odd marines ridiculously quickly, and zerg can't build dozens of drones at a time...
The fact that virus held the baneling bust is called good play. Had nestea been able to follow it up right afterwards with another attack just as strong as the first, he probably would have died-but he didn't and being behind on econ because a big baneling bust is an all-in meant that he loses.
|
On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished
Not just ZvT.
ZvT, ZvP, ZvZ, it's all the same. You get behind in economy as Zerg, you might as well gg right there, because you're not going to make a comeback unless your opponent does something stupid.
|
On April 15 2012 05:36 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished Yes of course, because 2or 3 fungals and some banelings can't destroy 50-odd marines ridiculously quickly, and zerg can't build dozens of drones at a time... The fact that virus held the baneling bust is called good play. Had nestea been able to follow it up right afterwards with another attack just as strong as the first, he probably would have died-but he didn't and being behind on econ because a big baneling bust is an all-in meant that he loses.
Your first statement doesn't matter.
stim and 20 marines can kill upwards of 100 lings... who gives a shit.
When it comes to exchanging in ZvT, the burden is on Zerg. Terran simply needs to move his army out on the map and siege up early, If he loses his army, it's no biggie, as long as he takes a decent chunk of the Zerg army too. Zerg on the other hand, if he doesn't kill at least 90% of the Terran army, he loses the game.
|
-MC won his second GSL in March
Many protoss in this GSL(april)
Legend of the Spring for SC2 ;p?
|
United States15275 Posts
On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished
I didn't see the game but it's not that hard to stop a baneling bust even if you are do a early 3 CC build.
|
On April 15 2012 05:58 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 05:36 GTPGlitch wrote:On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished Yes of course, because 2or 3 fungals and some banelings can't destroy 50-odd marines ridiculously quickly, and zerg can't build dozens of drones at a time... The fact that virus held the baneling bust is called good play. Had nestea been able to follow it up right afterwards with another attack just as strong as the first, he probably would have died-but he didn't and being behind on econ because a big baneling bust is an all-in meant that he loses. Your first statement doesn't matter. stim and 20 marines can kill upwards of 100 lings... who gives a shit. When it comes to exchanging in ZvT, the burden is on Zerg. Terran simply needs to move his army out on the map and siege up early, If he loses his army, it's no biggie, as long as he takes a decent chunk of the Zerg army too. Zerg on the other hand, if he doesn't kill at least 90% of the Terran army, he loses the game.
yeah, you know why? because you attack those 20 3-3 marines with your 100 0-0 zerglings in an angle, where only 2 can hit at a time. Zerg players are by far the worst, when it comes to tactical movement and micro. And until this changes, there is no reason for a discussion about zerg being to weak.
|
Maps out: Bel'shir Beach, Crossfire
Maps in: Entomed Valley, Cloud Kingdom
I'd say it's no surprise that Zergs having difficulty. Those two new maps are very turtle-friendly. (High ground expansions with narrow chokes) Antiga is still there as well.
|
I thought that both Nestea and MC would advanced to the next round. Virus played pretty good and deserved to advanced. I still find it funny how MC was able to forcefield all of Inca's army on that ramp.
|
On April 15 2012 07:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished I didn't see the game but it's not that hard to stop a baneling bust even if you are do a early 3 CC build.
thats the point
|
United States15275 Posts
On April 15 2012 08:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 07:42 CosmicSpiral wrote:On April 15 2012 05:23 Tsubbi wrote:On April 15 2012 01:29 iamthedave wrote:On April 15 2012 00:47 Femari wrote:On April 15 2012 00:17 Mythra wrote:On April 14 2012 19:09 roym899 wrote:On April 14 2012 19:06 Adreme wrote:On April 14 2012 19:05 Belha wrote:On April 14 2012 18:00 LimitSEA wrote:
Two zergs in Code S. Jesus, this is just sad. Why this never happened to terran -.-" Probably because a ridiculous amount of most teams high level playesr are terran. With the exception of oGs and Zenex I think all 8 other teams have a high level terran not to mention that now multiple foreign teams are getting high level terrans. But the question is WHY are there so many more Top Terrans then Top Zergs and Protosses since the Release of the game? In the ladder the races are splitted very equally. Well what if lets say sc2 just started and all the tier 1 bw pros eg flash,jaedong,bisu, etc choose to play terran and then the worse bw people choose zerg and protoss. Wouldnt you expect that terran would be doing better in code s just because the players are actually better. I dont see why people think that there should be a perfectly even number of terran,protoss and zerg at the top. There are a lot of other factors ie more of the pros picked terran and maybe the "best gamers" picked terran. So if blizzard did nerf terran to even up the distribution the race would be worse than zerg and protoss in general even if you got 33% players for each race in code s. This. I don't know why everyone just assumed the race was always OP and is still OP but not the player. Mvp broke ghosts, MKP is friggin Houdini, MMA still destroys in TvZ with nerfs. Yes there were always imbalances in the game, that happens when a game is young. It's not that one race is the best race, it's that certain people are playing that race. Lesser players cannot handle these things that pros handle. They're pro for a reason. When 4/5 bonjwas are Terran, when the best player in the world is Terran (Flash is still best), when one of the most popular players ever is Terran, wouldn't it make sense for a lot of younger players to start playing Terran? And this has nothing to do with the fact Terran has more tools at its disposal than anyone else? The problems with z v t have been there since the beginning. Zerg are pathetically easy to rush, harass, cheese and generally defeat. It's not that Zerg is 'hard to play' it's that Zerg can lose easily. You don't see Zerg holding on for dear life and squeezing out a win after a horrible engagement the way Terrans often do, you see them get roflstomped because Zerg are incredibly fragile and their economy is nowhere near as strong as Terrans. Terrans can lose half their SCVs and still mine equally to a 3 base Zerg thanks to MULEs while Zerg can... er... die? Yes, different players in different times can make either race seem overpowered, but there are structural weaknesses in the Zerg race that make them easier to lose with. Hence why so many pros are 'making mistakes'. Terran are incredibly forgiving to play unless you go for certain risky builds (Thor rush in particular) where one engagement legitimately loses you the game, and of course the dreaded bad unsiege timing. Zerg are incredibly unforgiving in almost every scenario at every stage of the game with the exception of the very very late game where you can go god mode with infestors and broodlords. Protoss I'm not sure about. I think more than the other races it genuinely depends on who's piloting Protoss. They have so many powerful tools but they're all awkward to use right with the exception of the old 4 gate cheeses. I think Protoss are the most strategical race over all, you really need to think ahead to what you intend to build and how you intend to get the most out of them. Overall I do think the T v Z matchup is unbalanced against Zerg, not because x unit beats y unit but because of Terran's far greater ability to come back from losses and superior ability to dictate the pace of the game. Any aggressive Terran forces the Zerg onto the back foot up until they make a serious screw up, as Virus demonstrated today and MMA used to demonstrate all the time when he was playing godly or pretty much any top Terran. Even the classic anti-marine unit, the baneling, depends far more on how good the Terran is than the zerg, because proper splitting drastically reduces or even nullfies them in extreme cases. How often do you see Zerg micro genuinely swing the tide of a battle? this is a very good post, it's just too easy for zerg to lose in zvt whereas the matchup is too forgiving for the terran virus didnt scout a banelingbust nor expect it at all while building a 3rd command center yet didn't die, mistakes like that should be punished I didn't see the game but it's not that hard to stop a baneling bust even if you are do a early 3 CC build. thats the point
A good build order is not a mistake.
|
i think we are going to have our first PvP code S final
just imagine the balance whine when that happens
|
On April 15 2012 08:10 adriftt wrote:
i think we are going to have our first PvP code S final
just imagine the balance whine when that happens
I bet a coworker lunch over this season.
Protoss just seems to be getting stronger and stronger IMO. I don't see how T can win lategame TvP, and the only point in ZvP where Zerg has any type of notable advantage seems to be while Protoss is securing his third. Outside of that small window, it seems nearly impossible for Zerg to engage a Protoss army directly in a remotely cost-effective manner.
At any rate. The stipulations of our bet were that Protoss would walk away with the code S trophy this season.
Judging by the RO32, I think the odds are in my favor. The only one who really scares me is MKP, he seems to be on a tear lately.
|
On April 14 2012 18:56 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2012 18:03 Asha` wrote:
So R16 =
7P (out of 10)
7T (out of 15)
2Z (out of 7) 1 bad season. Protoss has put up with 6-7 of that kind of representation. Welcome to club  You have a ways to go before you can really feel disenfranchized.
There have only been two seasons where protoss didn't have more players than zerg in the Ro16 in the past year...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
