EPTAlthough to be honest Mvp's TLPD stats for TvP are kind of useless to judge for his current form since he has 0 TLPD'd TvP games in Korea in 2012.
[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Code S Ro32 Group F - Page 98
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
|
Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
Although to be honest Mvp's TLPD stats for TvP are kind of useless to judge for his current form since he has 0 TLPD'd TvP games in Korea in 2012. | ||
|
SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On April 12 2012 22:27 Fubi wrote: Errr, last year, MC, MVP, and Nestea, definitely dropped out of Code S at least once, and each definitely had their own share of slumps, and all those other players you mentioned are out of Code S first round as well cept MKP; and even MKP himself had his own share of rollercoaster ride. Yeah, people drop out. Over a 12 month period, that happens. You make it sound surprising. If we're playing the BW comparison game, top players like Fantasy etc weren't successful in that many tournaments in a row (bear in mind that there are less tournaments per year in BW, so compare the number of tournaments rather than the timescale). On April 12 2012 22:27 Fubi wrote:When your "sometimes" happens every season and to every player, then it really isn't a "sometimes" anymore is it? You can not name a single player, NOT ONE, who hasn't had his own share of these mini-slumps. As well, we constantly get players popping out of nowhere and becomes good all of a sudden. How can this be fun? You're either forced to be a heart-broken fan, or a band-wagon fan. Your argument is that "players can and do go into slumps and play worse, therefore SC2 is a broken game". Like, what? If there was no rise and fall in players' ability and results, the game really would be broken. You support your argument with "you can not name a single player, NOT ONE, who hasn't had his own share of these mini-slumps", as if that somehow proves that the game is broken or something. I think this belief that the game is too volatile at the highest level, after only a year and a couple of months, is delusional. MVP dominated the scene for nearly a year, and it was considered a shock if he entered a tournament and didn't win. MC did the same for foreign tournaments for half a year. If Nestea entered a tournament and lost to anyone other than MVP or MMA, it was also a shock. They are all poster childs for consistency and, while all of them have had off-days, it is not a symptom of the game, it is a symptom of the nature of competition. | ||
|
Nifiel
Sweden54 Posts
On April 12 2012 22:27 Fubi wrote: Errr, last year, MC, MVP, and Nestea, definitely dropped out of Code S at least once, and each definitely had their own share of slumps, and all those other players you mentioned are out of Code S first round as well cept MKP; and even MKP himself had his own share of rollercoaster ride. When your "sometimes" happens every season and to every player, then it really isn't a "sometimes" anymore is it? You can not name a single player, NOT ONE, who hasn't had his own share of these mini-slumps. As well, we constantly get players popping out of nowhere and becomes good all of a sudden. How can this be fun? You're either forced to be a heart-broken fan, or a band-wagon fan. Nestea have played in every season of code S, MVP have only played one season in code A and got back to play code S next season. MC dropped out completely but he has still played in the majority of code S seasons. That's pretty damn consistent. And as an example from BW, during the 12 years OSL has been around only 7 players have won it twice or more, So there are a ton of people who only made it to the finals once in BW as well. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/OnGameNet_Starleague_(OSL)#Medals_won_per_Player | ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 12 2012 22:27 Fubi wrote: Errr, last year, MC, MVP, and Nestea, definitely dropped out of Code S at least once, and each definitely had their own share of slumps, and all those other players you mentioned are out of Code S first round as well cept MKP; and even MKP himself had his own share of rollercoaster ride. When your "sometimes" happens every season and to every player, then it really isn't a "sometimes" anymore is it? You can not name a single player, NOT ONE, who hasn't had his own share of these mini-slumps. As well, we constantly get players popping out of nowhere and becomes good all of a sudden. How can this be fun? You're either forced to be a heart-broken fan, or a band-wagon fan. Going down to Code A doesn't mean bad or slumping though. It just means that you lost twice in Code S, essentially. Not that big of a deal. MMA is still a strong player and hasn't really been slumping afaik, true fans will realize that, and MMA will be back in Code S. Nestea himself did not stay in Code A for too long either. And players who suddenly become good were actually good before, they just had a hard time breaking into Code A/S for some reason (metagame, difficulty of qualifiers, etc...). Seriously who the hell is new in Code S at this point? I can only see PartinG as being a relatively unknown prior to his recent godliness, but that's about it. We even have a good amount of old schoolers who still remain competitive (TheSTC, Genius, MKP, July, MC, Inca, Nestea, Squirtle, NaDa and MVP's first appearances go as far back as 2010 I believe, in the beta or in GSL Open seasons). Honestly, Code S feel less and less random season after season, that's very good for the game. + Show Spoiler + Virus is still here for some reason though :D | ||
|
L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
| ||
|
Art.FeeL
1163 Posts
| ||
|
Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
| ||
|
AlexanderDebois
Kyrgyzstan38 Posts
| ||
|
aintz
Canada5624 Posts
| ||
|
glzElectromaster
Japan2474 Posts
I was really surprised when i saw that MMA got torn apart, but considering how squirtle's been doing and Leenock's solid skill, it was actually a hard group to win, so it made sense anyway. Poor Nada tho. He's getting old and struggling... Really excited to see MC against Nestea. They're similar in their level of skill and body fat. Gonna be a fun group to watch... P.S. And hey, we might be seeing another non-MC protoss champ, considering how well the protoss have been doing this tournament (eg PartinG) | ||
|
KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
| ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On April 12 2012 23:07 AlexanderDebois wrote: It is a bit confusing that people still cite whether or not a player has good TvP. Is there a single terran, a one, who has good TvP right now? Whether it is metagame, balance, or a mixture of both no terran is any good at this MU right now. MKP has a pretty sick good TvP considering the current state of the matchup. He may be the only one though, we'll see. His bio micro skills definitely shine in TvP  MKP's TvP is good enough to not be called his worst matchup, which is not the case for most of the terrans as you pointed out. aLive and Polt have a decent TvP too, but are already down. | ||
|
Xarles
459 Posts
On April 12 2012 23:15 ZenithM wrote: MKP has a pretty sick good TvP considering the current state of the matchup. He may be the only one though, we'll see. His bio micro skills definitely shine in TvP MKP's TvP is good enough to not be called his worst matchup, which is not the case for most of the terrans as you pointed out. aLive and Polt have a decent TvP too, but are already down. Isn't MKP's TvP near 80% or so? | ||
|
Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
| ||
|
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
76% international, 65% Korea. Lately he barely loses indeed. | ||
|
Fubi
2228 Posts
On April 12 2012 22:45 SeaSwift wrote: Yeah, people drop out. Over a 12 month period, that happens. You make it sound surprising. If we're playing the BW comparison game, top players like Fantasy etc weren't successful in that many tournaments in a row (bear in mind that there are less tournaments per year in BW, so compare the number of tournaments rather than the timescale). We're not talking about over 12 month period tho, we're talking about top 4, or even Champion from the previous 1-2 seasons, dropping out in the FIRST round, consistently. This will rarely happen in any other sports. A team that makes it into the finals will 99%, at least make it into the playoffs next season. Tennis players like Nadal, Federrar, etc, will always make it into at least top 8 every grand slam. Yes, shits happen sometimes, but when it's happening literally every season, to everybody, you shouldn't be surprised that it would cause some people to raise an eyebrow. Your argument is that "players can and do go into slumps and play worse, therefore SC2 is a broken game". Like, what? If there was no rise and fall in players' ability and results, the game really would be broken. You support your argument with "you can not name a single player, NOT ONE, who hasn't had his own share of these mini-slumps", as if that somehow proves that the game is broken or something. I think this belief that the game is too volatile at the highest level, after only a year and a couple of months, is delusional. MVP dominated the scene for nearly a year, and it was considered a shock if he entered a tournament and didn't win. MC did the same for foreign tournaments for half a year. If Nestea entered a tournament and lost to anyone other than MVP or MMA, it was also a shock. They are all poster childs for consistency and, while all of them have had off-days, it is not a symptom of the game, it is a symptom of the nature of competition. It's ironic that you're naming these players, then in your next part, go on to say that they've had their own share of "off-days". If these players are so consistent, how are they dropping off in the first round of a league? A league is meant to be something that last relatively long, but because of it's length, provides more accuracy and consistency to represent the players' level. However, it's clearly not working. And I'm not implying, and not saying the game is broken. I'm just pondering the reasoning for this. It could be maybe the game has lower skill cap, and therefore luck of the draw of your opponent or randomness of your Bo3 comes into play more. Or maybe cuz the game relies too much on death-balls and "one fail engagement and you're dead" system. Or it could mean that the league needs better format all together. I don't know which is what, I was merely pointing out that something isn't right if every player that has ever done well, has fallen off first round in short period of time (usually next 1-2 season), and this is happening consistently. This actually never happens in any decent sports. | ||
|
Ra.Xor.2
United States1784 Posts
| ||
|
Fubi
2228 Posts
On April 12 2012 22:49 ZenithM wrote: Going down to Code A doesn't mean bad or slumping though. It just means that you lost twice in Code S, essentially. Not that big of a deal. MMA is still a strong player and hasn't really been slumping afaik, true fans will realize that, and MMA will be back in Code S. Nestea himself did not stay in Code A for too long either. And players who suddenly become good were actually good before, they just had a hard time breaking into Code A/S for some reason (metagame, difficulty of qualifiers, etc...). Seriously who the hell is new in Code S at this point? I can only see PartinG as being a relatively unknown prior to his recent godliness, but that's about it. We even have a good amount of old schoolers who still remain competitive (TheSTC, Genius, MKP, July, MC, Inca, Nestea, Squirtle, NaDa and MVP's first appearances go as far back as 2010 I believe, in the beta or in GSL Open seasons). Honestly, Code S feel less and less random season after season, that's very good for the game. + Show Spoiler + Virus is still here for some reason though :D Right, I agree with you, I'm definitely not saying these players all of a sudden became bad and go into a slump. I was saying exactly what you're saying in bold, that there are something(s) that are hindering the demonstration and measurement of player's actual skill level in this game/leagues. Be it game-mechanics, volatility of the game, or the system of the league itself, it definitely isn't very good the way it is, from a fan's perspective. | ||
|
Coal
Sweden1535 Posts
| ||
|
Coal
Sweden1535 Posts
| ||
| ||
