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Everyone knows the drill by now.
Keep it manner and have a good time.
We'll be watching along with you. |
On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified...
"Great production"
Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
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MKP had better win IPL now. Then no one could dispute his status as the world's best.
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Honestly I didn't see the DCs (I only watched the last 2 sets) but after reading this thread all I can think about it , BLIZZARD ! FUCKING LAN ALREADY !
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It's unintelligent to claim that Parting definitely had the game won. Without being able to watch the replay, you don't know 1) how many units mkp had in production, 2) how close mkp's units in production were to finishing, 3) where mkp's rax were rallied, and how good he would be at pooling units, 4) the location of parting's nearest pylon, 5) how likely the warp prism was to get killed by vikes, 6) the saturation of each player's mining bases, 7) how many mules mkp had and thus how insanely high his mineral income may have been, or 8) the location of all parting's units (did he have 4 or 5 zealots sitting back at home from having dealt with a drop 5 mins earlier?).
To claim that you know the outcome of the game without having ANY of the above information is simply unintelligent. Especially given how back and forth the game was and how many times it looked like one player had it won before being pushed back. From watching the VOD, parting only had 7 zealots and 5 stalkers attacking mkp's 3 forward barracks, it looks like the rest of the units were far away. GOM also had very knowledgable individuals WATCHING THE REPLAY and making the decision.
Smarten up.
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On April 08 2012 14:12 Doodsmack wrote:
It's unintelligent to claim that Parting definitely had the game won. Without being able to watch the replay, you don't know 1) how many units mkp had in production, 2) how close mkp's units in production were to finishing, 3) where mkp's rax were rallied, and how good he would be at pooling units, 4) the location of parting's nearest pylon, 5) how likely the warp prism was to get killed by vikes, 6) the saturation of each player's mining bases, 7) how many mules mkp had and thus how insanely high his mineral income may have been, or 8) the location of all parting's units (did he have 4 or 5 zealots sitting back at home from having dealt with a drop 5 mins earlier?).
To claim that you know the outcome of the game without having ANY of the above information is simply unintelligent. Especially given how back and forth the game was and how many times it looked like one player had it won before being pushed back. From watching the VOD, parting only had 7 zealots and 5 stalkers attacking mkp's 3 forward barracks, it looks like the rest of the units were far away. GOM also had very knowledgable individuals WATCHING THE REPLAY and making the decision.
Smarten up.
Asking people in a LR thread to smarten up is asking a bit too much
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On April 08 2012 14:08 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:03 mrfsy wrote:On April 08 2012 13:52 MasterKang wrote:On April 08 2012 13:31 sc14s wrote:On April 08 2012 13:21 RJGooner wrote:On April 08 2012 13:18 sc14s wrote:On April 08 2012 13:18 MasterKang wrote:On April 08 2012 13:09 DivinitySC2 wrote:On April 08 2012 13:07 Femari wrote:On April 08 2012 13:06 Argolis wrote:
MKP = The first sc2 bonjwa lol no lol yes? lol NO perhaps on the way but not yet obviously. Not even close to "on the way". He hasn't even won a GSL yet. i should quote you for later. If you do not think that MKP is or nearly is the best sc2 player atm.. how can you really argue this? are you blind or just plain dumb? he has beaten DRG twice in a row recently in important matches (current GSL champ) and beat parting tonight and at mlg winter arena (who most would consider #1 PvT in the world right now) not to mention he is in code S and has odds for winning it all. really? are you one of those BW players with grouchy old man syndrome? "In my day a bonjwa walked uphill in the snow for 10 years before he was considered a bonjwa!" I think you're just plain dumb. There's a reason why winning the GSL is a requirement for the claim of "best player in the world. IT'S THE HARDEST TOURNAMENT IN THE WORLD. How can one be the best, if you haven't beaten the best in consecutive series in the most prestigious tournament on the earth. Beating DRG, who has been playing like shit, does not automatically make you the "best player in the world". Omg he beat Parting, the best PvT'er in the world? He also got 2-0'd by JYP, whom some would consider the WORST PvT'er in the Korean scene. Doesn't make much sense for the best sc2 player to lose like that does it? The fact that MKP advanced from his Code S group isn't even that impressive. His wins were against Zenio, who has always been fluctuating between code s and a, and July, who hasn't performed well since his loss to MC in the finals. If MKP had been in the group with Jjakji, Taeja, and theSTC, the chances of him advancing were probably 15-20%. Until MKP wins the GSL, which every pro sc2 player takes the most seriously and prepares the most for, he is NOT eligible for "Best player in the world" Totally agree. Calling a player "best in the world" who never had win GSL title is just a joke... The GSL title is the achievement for the best of the best, you must own this title if you want be N°1 in the world. No such thing as best in SC2. any top 10 could beat one another on any given day. Way titles switch hands that should be obvious. There is in depth discussions as to why in main forum.
Even Flash doesn't win every single match so it is not only SC2
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On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified...
Quoted for truth. More people watching VOD's reporting back with what I had been saying since the start. Thanks for trying to rewrite the facts of the game to make your points more valid. But like someone else said, its clear Parting wasn't about to walk up any ramps without waiting for a collosus and MKP had 6 vikings waiting to greet it. And if he did charge up the ramp then he would be met with 10 barracks worth of units ready to run the gauntlet of kiting.
And don't get it twisted, I'm protoss and a huge Parting fan. I'm also a fan of truth and a destroyer of negative vibes.
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On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks?
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On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
The point is there was nothing in the main. The units were attacking 3 barracks a good distance from the ramp so Parting had a lot of ground to cover even to reach the "main production." Yes he could have moved those units into the base, but you have to consider that 1) there's no ability to reinforce (vikings were going to kill the warp prism) 2)MKP's production cycle was just about to finish.
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On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened.
Great production means great production (15 barracks and 4 starports supported by 5 bases worth of resources), nothing else.
PartinG wouldn't have won the game just with that push on 3 barracks almost in the middle of the map. It's not the "main", dude. The warpprism is more concerning though, but I think MKP had vikings to deal with it.
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On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks?
I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main.
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On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks?
much the same was as mkp can micro as godly without medivacs against chargelots
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I was not able to watch the games live but I wish I could. from the first Parting/MKP game to the bomber game sounded absolutely nuts. I feel terrible for Parting and I lay no blame on MKP, he was just doing his job.
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On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main.
with an about-to-be-dead warpprism chased by vikings?
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On April 08 2012 14:07 Probasaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. BOOM! The dude's 2nd post and he just owned all you loons arguing against facts. HE WAS NOT IN HIS BASE!!! He wasn't even up the 1st ramp. Yes he was camping 3 barracks outside the natural. Boom. Shutup.
ugh...people are saying that parting would WALK HIS UNITS INTO THE MAIN WHILE MKP HAD NOTHING BUT PRODUCTION GOING..who cares if he was hitting 3 barracks outside the main n is not even in the main when it is like 3-5 seconds away from parting
hey guys hes not in the main, but just outside the entrence to the natural which is about 3-5 seconds away from parting.
Also why would you need AoE when you are killing units coming out of barracks one by one? I hear 8 marauders n 6 marines can deal with 18 chargelots n 6 stalkers.
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This GSTL needs an asterisk next to it!
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On April 08 2012 14:15 Devise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:14 zhurai wrote:On April 08 2012 14:10 Enzymatic wrote:On April 08 2012 14:07 ZenithM wrote:
I just watched that first MKP vs PartinG game. I understand the regame, couldn't have given the game to PartinG and be fine with it. MKP had great production and to be honest had not made too many mistakes since the beginning of the game (I would say he was ahead even). The production that was attacked was outside the natural (that is to say, 2 ramps away from MKP's main, which is very far away), with MKP still having production about everywhere on the map and 4-5 bases running, this is not a lost TvP yet...
The shitstorm would probably have been even greater with the judges giving the game to PartinG like that. Honestly the second game did look very similar, but MKP was just better, or PartinG was mentally crushed, I don't know...
Edit: Still it's regrettable that we had a dropped player and that it affected the finals overall, I still agree with that, but the regame was justified... "Great production" Some of you talk as if Terran can just warp-in units like protoss and not have to wait for their production. Any amount of minerals doesn't matter if all your units are stuck in your main getting instantly killed. Which WOULD have happened. how can the units stuck in the main get killed when the protoss army is in the middle of the map killing 3 barracks? I just watched it again.. and MKP had 3 marauders vs 18 zealot 6 stalker 8 ht, and he just had his warp prism in the main, so MKP was so dead... warp in's in the main.
Gone over this before. Nothing in MKP's main, units were being produced, PartinG has no money for warp ins at that second, 6 Vikings right next to the Warp Prism, etc etc etc
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On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further.
Almost all of this is true. What you got wrong, though, is your warp prism remark. That warp prism was there for a reason, to reinforce his units, so he didn´t need to run them to the top. He could also have lifted his units that already were there up into MKP´s base easily. Since PartinG had as much bases as MKP, but a lot farther away, PartinG would have had a lot more time to expand even more if he wanted to. I just don´t see a win for MKP with this scenario.
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Silly things to learn from the combined community wisdom in this thread:
Parting is apparently the first SC2 bonjwa, because he beat the best player in the world, and because consequently StartaleQ won the GSTL, according to netizens, which is a requirement for being bonjwa. (:
One can't argue against such solid armchair logic, I guess.
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On April 08 2012 14:16 oogieogie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 14:07 Probasaur wrote:On April 08 2012 14:04 boag11 wrote:
Just watched the VOD and gonna mention a few points
1. Parting was not near MKP's production builds, just the 3 outside his base
2. It was 5 base vs 5 base
3. Parting only had enough money to warp in ~3 zealots/stalkers or maybe 4 HTs, with his income he might of been able to add 3 more zealots/stalkers or maybe 1 or 2 more HTs at that instance
4. MKP was able to atleast produce ~8 Maruaders and ~6 marines based on production tab from 1 min prior to drop
5. Parting had no AOE close to MKP's base, he had no HTs or collosus left near the fight and no signs of units close enough on minimap (a few units were started to move from Partings base), Warp Prism was around MKP's 3rd so wouldnt have been able to supply HTs directly to fight right away and Parting is known for warping in HTs at his base to charge energy.
From this I think MKP would of held and I dont think Parting would go up the ramp into MKPs natural. Parting might of gone over to MKP's 4th but that will give time for MKP to reinforce further. BOOM! The dude's 2nd post and he just owned all you loons arguing against facts. HE WAS NOT IN HIS BASE!!! He wasn't even up the 1st ramp. Yes he was camping 3 barracks outside the natural. Boom. Shutup. ugh...people are saying that parting would WALK HIS UNITS INTO THE MAIN WHILE MKP HAD NOTHING BUT PRODUCTION GOING..who cares if he was hitting 3 barracks outside the main n is not even in the main when it is like 3-5 seconds away from parting hey guys hes not in the main, but just outside the entrence to the natural which is about 3-5 seconds away from parting. Also why would you need AoE when you are killing units coming out of barracks one by one? I hear 8 marauders n 6 marines can deal with 18 chargelots n 6 stalkers.
They can, but only when commandeered by the King.
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EPT
