EPTIron Squid Group C Liveshows Schedules - Page 4
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:46 The_Darkness wrote: You're simply wrong. Foreign protosses especially Grubby have tried virtually everything -- from early zealot pressure, to one base 4 gating, to warp prism play, to DT harass etc. Stephano's reactions and micro are amazing. If you try to get cute, you almost always lose. Stephano's lack of an early game scout cost him against Inori because he couldn't see how greedy Inori was being apparently. Inori gambled that Stephano would do a specific build and he did. Stephano has punished people for making similar assumptions in the past (watch his second game against Grubby at LSC for a recent example). As the better player, Stephano should have scouted and it's his fault he didn't. He doesn't need the extra 100 minerals he saves by not scouting to beat an Inori. Nah, I'm right, because Stephano is like 25-2 vs. foreign Protoss, but he's like 10-20 vs. Korean Protoss. Foreign Protoss try to do cute things, but they don't understand how to have those cute things transform into wins. They make special taktik builds that help them macro into the late game and gain small edges, but Stephano doesn't lose to Protoss late game - not to foreign Protoss, anyhow. The difference between them and Inori is that Inori looked at Stephano's timings and formulated a strategy for victory, not to merely survive with a small edge until the late game. He saw that Stephano didn't scout, and that not scouting means a two-base all-in kills him before he's prepared, and that this results in a win. | ||
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Sea_aeS
1025 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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SC2ShoWTimE
Germany722 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:46 The_Darkness wrote: You're simply wrong. Foreign protosses especially Grubby have tried virtually everything -- from early zealot pressure, to one base 4 gating, to warp prism play, to DT harass etc. Stephano's reactions and micro are amazing. If you try to get cute, you almost always lose. Stephano's lack of an early game scout cost him against Inori because he couldn't see how greedy Inori was being apparently. Inori gambled that Stephano would do a specific build and he did. Stephano has punished people for making similar assumptions in the past (watch his second game against Grubby at LSC for a recent example). As the better player, Stephano should have scouted and it's his fault he didn't. He doesn't need the extra 100 minerals he saves by not scouting to beat an Inori. god, stop being so ignorant. just watch the replays stephano released after his time in korea. there you will see how good stephano's zvp really is when he faces protoss players that actually understand how to play pvz. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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Farone
Netherlands1219 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:41 Azarkon wrote: Nexus first speeds up all your timings. Hell, Inori didn't just nexus first. He nexus'd first and then built a gateway before forge. That's as greedy as it gets. For a timing player like Stephano, having your timings thrown off is killer. Imagine your build gets an evo and lair at 7:00 in order to stop DTs because that's the earliest you've seen Protoss get them. Protoss hits you with DTs at 6:30. You just die. Fully agree with your point about timings. A 30 second in the early game is massive. | ||
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ragnorr
Denmark6097 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:52 ShoWTimE94 wrote: god, stop being so ignorant. just watch the replays stephano released after his time in korea. there will see how good stephano's zvp really is when he faces protoss players that actually understand how to play pvz. Why is he ignorant? Stephanos broadcasted games in korean TLPD supports his claim | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
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Lohse
Denmark237 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:53 ragnorr wrote: Why is he ignorant? Stephanos broadcasted games in korean TLPD supports his claim ...What Korean TLPD games? Oh, those bo1s from Blizzard Cup 2011 where he won against the worst in the tournament (HerO) and lost to MC? | ||
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Funkydonky
950 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:33 Azarkon wrote: Inori is a pretty middle of the road Protoss as far as Protosses go. He beat Stephano by doing one simple thing - meta-gaming. Foreigner Protosses just do not understand this concept. They don't know how to take risks. They go up against Stephano with safe play and get demolished because three hatch roach crushes safe play from Protoss. Granted, this was back around the time of ASUS ROG, so it's not really fair to Mana because back then Protosses were struggling. Yea, inori beat stephano once, and will never beat him again. Stephano learns from his loses. | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38198 Posts
Don't really see him winning but I hope to god he does hah =D | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:52 ShoWTimE94 wrote: god, stop being so ignorant. just watch the replays stephano released after his time in korea. there will see how good stephano's zvp really is when he faces protoss players that actually understand how to play pvz. I've seen his replays from Korea and he generally won. He had 70% + win rate on the server and P was not his worse match up, which means he did very well. So what's your point? He lost to Squirtle and MC and beat basically everyone else. How am I being ignorant? Also your post doesn't make any sense since it's raising a point (how he did in Korea) totally unrelated to the point I'm making -- which is that Foreign protosses have tried to mix up their strategies against him and it hasn't worked. It isn't just about timings; it's about micro, how well you harass etc. Protosses like squirtle are just better than Foreigners at doing a variety of little things, which taken together at least at one point gave them an edge over Stephano. It's not just timings. Nevertheless I think Stephano is better now than he was while was in Korea. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:55 Lasbike wrote: JYP couldn't find a solution against Stephano, 4 games in a row. And he's known to be a pretty good PvZ player.. (JYP) JYP's standard game isn't good enough to beat Stephano, but had he met Stephano in MLG, you're not going to see his standard game. That's the difference - JYP collected enough information from Stephano in those practice matches to know he's not going to beat Stephano in a straight up standard game, so he prepares other strategies. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:58 nokz88 wrote: Enough of Stephano, let's marvel at the most onesided matchup ever in SC2, MMA vs Z Life could win if he does a roach ling all in or baneling bust...maybe. | ||
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lannisport
878 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
On March 29 2012 04:58 Bagration wrote: Life could win if he does a roach ling all in or baneling bust...maybe. Dimaga beat MMA with a roachbane bust in IEM Kiev. The first time in like forever that somebody's managed to bust him in the early game. | ||
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