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On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 06:27 sitromit wrote:
Stephano knows that he needs to avoid playing against good competition as much as he possibly can, to keep the hype train going so he can have a legion of fans and get 10K viewers when he streams. If he never plays against MMA, his fans can keep believing that had he played, he could have won.. People still believe he'll win IPL 4... Good luck with that. :p Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them. He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012.
Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...)
You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude !
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On April 05 2012 18:28 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 06:27 sitromit wrote:
Stephano knows that he needs to avoid playing against good competition as much as he possibly can, to keep the hype train going so he can have a legion of fans and get 10K viewers when he streams. If he never plays against MMA, his fans can keep believing that had he played, he could have won.. People still believe he'll win IPL 4... Good luck with that. :p Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them. He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012. Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...) You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude !
I don't include meaningless tournaments for a couple of grand where people are playing at 5am.
LAN's or major online tournaments only.
And ESWC was six months ago.
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I made a corrected version :
+ Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
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On April 05 2012 18:37 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:28 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 06:27 sitromit wrote:
Stephano knows that he needs to avoid playing against good competition as much as he possibly can, to keep the hype train going so he can have a legion of fans and get 10K viewers when he streams. If he never plays against MMA, his fans can keep believing that had he played, he could have won.. People still believe he'll win IPL 4... Good luck with that. :p Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them. He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012. Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...) You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude ! I don't include meaningless tournaments for a couple of grand where people are playing at 5am. LAN's or major online tournaments only. And ESWC was six months ago.
I'm not talking about ESWC.
Well I guess you chose to remove what you call meaningless tournaments so the statistics say what you wanted them to say. And how a tournament can be that much meaningless when you have such players as Polt, Violet, Inori, aLive or Zenio participating ??
The fact Stephano is winning pretty often against koreans is a fact and you cannot deny that. I don't say that he was a favorite against Jjakji and MMA, but he had a small chance, that's the point.
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On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
On April 05 2012 18:51 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:37 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:28 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 06:27 sitromit wrote:
Stephano knows that he needs to avoid playing against good competition as much as he possibly can, to keep the hype train going so he can have a legion of fans and get 10K viewers when he streams. If he never plays against MMA, his fans can keep believing that had he played, he could have won.. People still believe he'll win IPL 4... Good luck with that. :p Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them. He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012. Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...) You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude ! I don't include meaningless tournaments for a couple of grand where people are playing at 5am. LAN's or major online tournaments only. And ESWC was six months ago. I'm not talking about ESWC. Well I guess you chose to remove what you call meaningless tournaments so the statistics say what you wanted them to say. And how a tournament can be that much meaningless when you have such players as Polt, Violet, Inori, aLive or Zenio participating ?? The fact Stephano is winning pretty often against koreans is a fact and you cannot deny that. I don't say that he was a favorite against Jjakji and MMA, but he had a small chance, that's the point.
ESWC was referenced in the first place for Stephano being able to beat MKP. Read up.
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Even Ladder has more meaning than that.
I also did not pick and choose in the slightest. I included all games played in Liquipedia's definition of a Premier tournament as well as Lone Star Clash which while a major tournament was a LAN, and I'd be happy to disqualify it seen as Stephano actually did well there.
Stephano loses more than he wins vs Koreans and that includes Code B/A Koreans. He is wildly overrated and is falling further and further away from the Code S players.
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On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless.
Like some of the losses where played on NA server in the middle of the night for Stephano.
If you want to find excuse to koreans to loose to Stephano, you'll have to take into consideration the excuses of Stephano to loose to korean. If you don't your arguments won't be objective, thus worthless.
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On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless.
I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players.
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On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:51 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:37 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:28 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:
[quote]
Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them.
He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012. Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...) You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude ! I don't include meaningless tournaments for a couple of grand where people are playing at 5am. LAN's or major online tournaments only. And ESWC was six months ago. I'm not talking about ESWC. Well I guess you chose to remove what you call meaningless tournaments so the statistics say what you wanted them to say. And how a tournament can be that much meaningless when you have such players as Polt, Violet, Inori, aLive or Zenio participating ?? The fact Stephano is winning pretty often against koreans is a fact and you cannot deny that. I don't say that he was a favorite against Jjakji and MMA, but he had a small chance, that's the point. ESWC was referenced in the first place for Stephano being able to beat MKP. Read up.
Maybe but I am not talking about ESWC.
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On April 05 2012 19:00 Agathon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Like some of the losses where played on NA server in the middle of the night for Stephano. If you want to find excuse to koreans to loose to Stephano, you'll have to take into consideration the excuses of Stephano to loose to korean. If you don't your arguments won't be objective, thus worthless.
Except all the games I suggested using were played at LAN events, with the exception of Iron Squid. Which was prerecorded (therefore I assume a reasonable time for both players) and on NA.
On April 05 2012 19:00 samurai80 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players.
No, they're worthless. If anybody should realise that small tournament matches don't mean anything it's Stephano fans.
He's played 32 games to Koreans this year that are worthwhile (i.e LAN games + Iron Squid) and won 12. That's a 37% win rate. Which is awful.
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On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 18:51 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:37 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:28 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:02 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 04:45 Zealot Orgy wrote:On April 05 2012 04:41 Asha` wrote:On April 05 2012 04:40 00Visor wrote:On April 05 2012 04:39 samurai80 wrote:
Stephano completely owned T_T well, jjakji did need 2 very risky builds to own him Stephanos scouting is to blame here Nothing really that risky about Jjakji's build in game 1. Only threat would have been a roach/bane bust but he'd have had more than enough time to adjust. You go for a fast third and you would "have enough time to adjust" to a 2base roach allin? God your hate towards Stephano is getting more obnoxious by the day MarineKing holds that all day long taking fast thirds. Stephano got raped. Accept it. On April 05 2012 17:05 LeLfe wrote:On April 05 2012 16:43 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 16:17 BlazeFury01 wrote:On April 05 2012 15:45 Fubi wrote:On April 05 2012 15:30 samurai80 wrote:
[quote]
Wait a min man, he played the Blizzard Cup, and unlike the other foreigners he did have some encouraging results by winning 2 games over 4 against the best of the best in Korea (W:Hero,DRG, L:Mvp,MC). It's not like he usually win every game against a top korean, but at least he had won some and hopefully will still have some good results against them.
He was just completely owned against Jjakji, and got completely mad at that (not used to lose that much recently maybe), refusing to play the next game. I agree this is retarded, but it's not like he's doing that to avoid the best players. You can say whatever you want against him but no way you can say that. I don't know about you, but talking about him winning some Bo1's from 4-5months ago doesn't mean anything, considering how thing change so fast and people can go up and down so quickly. Just looking at Stephano's recent games, he hasn't won against any notable Korean players recently, except Polt, who has a winner record against him. Im guessing his idea of staying a top foreigner includes winning random smaller tournaments, not going to Korea, and just dodge all the good players he can't beat. Well, I don't really blame stephano. He probably feels that he has nothing to prove and the entirety of his career is to make as much money as possible before he switches to study medicine. Once he leaves this game the only thing that's going to matter in his life is how much money he made and all the things he can spend it on. What he's doing is finding the easiest way to make money even if that means dodging top players and playing in smaller tournaments because he feels that he has an advantage. Why play in a Korean league or tryout for one (GSL) if you can win more money in a couple of tournaments with a lower skill ceiling? It's less stress and easier earnings. Plus, Stephano's displayed on numberous occasions that he could careless about the communities opinions or expectations. Sure we want to see the "Foreigner Hope" fulfill that title but only he alone can decide if he wants to take on the task. But "to ze bank!" is his focus and "to ze bank!" is where all that money is going from dodging top players and winning smaller tournaments. Not saying I have a problem with what he does and decides with his life. Just saying people should stop hyping him as god or foreigner savior when all he's been doing is dodging good players and winning random tournaments without them. not like he stomped MKP to win ESWC in October... no excuse for his forfeit, still he's a great player. Sup with six months ago? His record in 2012 vs Koreans is terrible. vs Life 1-2 LOST vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST vs Inori 1-2 LOST vs Polt 1-2 LOST vs Polt 3-1 WON vs Polt 2-1 WON vs Polt 1-4 LOST vs Puma 3-0 WON vs MC 0-2 LOST vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST vs Sound 0-2 LOST So that's 3 wins and 8 losses vs Korean players in Premier Tournaments in 2012. Man look for Stephano in TLPD international, check every game against korean players for the last 3 months (we're in early April, not July so it's not 6 but 3 months...) You should have much more games than that, many of them being wins. Check your info dude ! I don't include meaningless tournaments for a couple of grand where people are playing at 5am. LAN's or major online tournaments only. And ESWC was six months ago. I'm not talking about ESWC. Well I guess you chose to remove what you call meaningless tournaments so the statistics say what you wanted them to say. And how a tournament can be that much meaningless when you have such players as Polt, Violet, Inori, aLive or Zenio participating ?? The fact Stephano is winning pretty often against koreans is a fact and you cannot deny that. I don't say that he was a favorite against Jjakji and MMA, but he had a small chance, that's the point. ESWC was referenced in the first place for Stephano being able to beat MKP. Read up. Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Even Ladder has more meaning than that. I also did not pick and choose in the slightest. I included all games played in Liquipedia's definition of a Premier tournament as well as Lone Star Clash which while a major tournament was a LAN, and I'd be happy to disqualify it seen as Stephano actually did well there. Stephano loses more than he wins vs Koreans and that includes Code B/A Koreans. He is wildly overrated and is falling further and further away from the Code S players.
Well I don't know whether he's close to the code S level or not, I wish I had more clue about that actually. But I mean, after viewing his games in your "meaningless" tournaments, I can say for sure Stephano did play well to beat these koreans who themselves were not at all looking sloppy or anything. His play was in these games impressive, and that's why I believe, and I'm not the only one, that he deserves some credit about his chances to win against top koreans, even if I can't tell about such a precise win rate he could have had if he played more against them.
Then as you mention it, the ladder is also telling us he was winning quite a lot in Korean GM.
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On April 05 2012 19:07 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 19:00 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players. No, they're worthless. If anybody should realise that small tournament matches don't mean anything it's Stephano fans. He's played 32 games to Koreans this year that are worthwhile (i.e LAN games + Iron Squid) and won 12. That's a 37% win rate. Which is awful.
Ok I disagree and this discussion is worthless...
Btw I'm not even a Stephano fan, I hate BM.
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I was looking forward to see MMA playing Stephano but once again he can't take anything seriously other than his own needs.
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It's funny reading all of the commenters who are taking Jjakji's beating Stephano so seriously (as evidence of a wide skill gap). If the opposite result had occurred many would discount Stephano's victory because the game was played cross-server and online.
Stephano goes for a delayed all in in game 1 and then loses to two port banshees. Jjakji should definitely be favored to beat Stephano but you can't read too much into such a series. If you want to make a lot out of his game, then I assume you also viewed Stephano's beating MKP and MMA in the IPL3 qualifier as a very important victory for him. I'm guessing those reveling in Stephano's losses do not. Most of course discredited his victories there -- even though both players were familiar with Stephano and his style. (Watch the chat with MMA from game 1 in their series, e.g.).
No Zerg, not Stephano, not Life, not DRG, not Leenock, not Nestea, can consistently beat a top tier Korean Terran like MKP, MMA or Jjakji, which is why all of those Terrans have absurd win rates even in Korea. No Zerg in the world. Not. a. one. On the other hand, those Terran players can consistently beat all of the best Zerg players. The match up is very balanced at the moment, except at the very tippy-top of the spectrum, where Terran continues to be more or less invincible despite Blizzard's best efforts to nerf Terran.
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On April 05 2012 19:07 Aemilia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 19:00 Agathon wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Like some of the losses where played on NA server in the middle of the night for Stephano. If you want to find excuse to koreans to loose to Stephano, you'll have to take into consideration the excuses of Stephano to loose to korean. If you don't your arguments won't be objective, thus worthless. Except all the games I suggested using were played at LAN events, with the exception of Iron Squid. Which was prerecorded (therefore I assume a reasonable time for both players) and on NA. Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 19:00 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players. No, they're worthless. If anybody should realise that small tournament matches don't mean anything it's Stephano fans. He's played 32 games to Koreans this year that are worthwhile (i.e LAN games + Iron Squid) and won 12. That's a 37% win rate. Which is awful.
Your figures are selective to support your argument and thus highly suspect. You include games played in IronSquid because Stephano lost them but then ignore other games played cross-server because Stephano actually won them. You ignore the wins this year against Hyun and Violet and Zenio and Polt and dismiss them as meaningless because they were cross server but then include the losses to Polt, Jjakji and Life even though these are cross server too. That's massaging the figures to support your argument and is intellectually dishonest. You cannot simply ignore the data that weakens your argument.
If you wish to look at his record in 2012 against Koreans and discuss this, then you need to either look at LAN only results, or include all cross-server games too. You cannot choose LAN only results and then add in a sub-set of the cross-server results and simply ignore the other cross-server results. You've arbitrarily decided which games are worthwhile and which should be ignored and that is so subjective it is meaningless.
It could be argued the most important games Stephano has played this year against Koreans were Assembly Final and the Lone Star Clash against Polt. Both were LANs and thousands of dollars were at stake for the outcome of those specific.
Personally I think Stephano's record against Koreans should include games from 2011. Stephano played some notable opponents in various Tournaments, and played on Korean Ladder and in Blizzard Cup. Stephano did have a disappointing MLG, but will face some tough opponents in IPL4 and is lined up to play in the IGN Fight Club, probably against MC.
While Stephano's no-show is very disappointing behaviour and clearly unprofessional, I don't think attempting to distort his record of past wins/losses serves as a reasonable response.
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France12771 Posts
On April 05 2012 23:44 The_Darkness wrote:
It's funny reading all of the commenters who are taking Jjakji's beating Stephano so seriously (as evidence of a wide skill gap). If the opposite result had occurred many would discount Stephano's victory because the game was played cross-server and online.
Stephano goes for a delayed all in in game 1 and then loses to two port banshees. Jjakji should definitely be favored to beat Stephano but you can't read too much into such a series. If you want to make a lot out of his game, then I assume you also viewed Stephano's beating MKP and MMA in the IPL3 qualifier as a very important victory for him. I'm guessing those reveling in Stephano's losses do not. Most of course discredited his victories there -- even though both players were familiar with Stephano and his style. (Watch the chat with MMA from game 1 in their series, e.g.).
No Zerg, not Stephano, not Life, not DRG, not Leenock, not Nestea, can consistently beat a top tier Korean Terran like MKP, MMA or Jjakji, which is why all of those Terrans have absurd win rates even in Korea. No Zerg in the world. Not. a. one. On the other hand, those Terran players can consistently beat all of the best Zerg players. The match up is very balanced at the moment, except at the very tippy-top of the spectrum, where Terran continues to be more or less invincible despite Blizzard's best efforts to nerf Terran.
DRG can and was able to lol. Until MarineKing started playing as much as good in official matches as in practice  .
Anyways are people sure that Stephano forfeited because he was already eliminated?
I've read somewhere that he prefered streaming because it would make more revenue that day than playing a "pointless" match but I've no idea if that's true.
I'm hoping for an official statement.
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On April 06 2012 00:01 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 23:44 The_Darkness wrote:
It's funny reading all of the commenters who are taking Jjakji's beating Stephano so seriously (as evidence of a wide skill gap). If the opposite result had occurred many would discount Stephano's victory because the game was played cross-server and online.
Stephano goes for a delayed all in in game 1 and then loses to two port banshees. Jjakji should definitely be favored to beat Stephano but you can't read too much into such a series. If you want to make a lot out of his game, then I assume you also viewed Stephano's beating MKP and MMA in the IPL3 qualifier as a very important victory for him. I'm guessing those reveling in Stephano's losses do not. Most of course discredited his victories there -- even though both players were familiar with Stephano and his style. (Watch the chat with MMA from game 1 in their series, e.g.).
No Zerg, not Stephano, not Life, not DRG, not Leenock, not Nestea, can consistently beat a top tier Korean Terran like MKP, MMA or Jjakji, which is why all of those Terrans have absurd win rates even in Korea. No Zerg in the world. Not. a. one. On the other hand, those Terran players can consistently beat all of the best Zerg players. The match up is very balanced at the moment, except at the very tippy-top of the spectrum, where Terran continues to be more or less invincible despite Blizzard's best efforts to nerf Terran. DRG can and was able to lol. Until MarineKing started playing as much as good in official matches as in practice . Anyways are people sure that Stephano forfeited because he was already eliminated? I've read somewhere that he prefered streaming because it would make more revenue that day than playing a "pointless" match but I've no idea if that's true.I'm hoping for an official statement.
Lol, that makes me smile but even as a Stephano fan, i have to admit, it's totally possible (:.
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United States15275 Posts
On April 05 2012 23:46 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 19:07 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 19:00 Agathon wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Like some of the losses where played on NA server in the middle of the night for Stephano. If you want to find excuse to koreans to loose to Stephano, you'll have to take into consideration the excuses of Stephano to loose to korean. If you don't your arguments won't be objective, thus worthless. Except all the games I suggested using were played at LAN events, with the exception of Iron Squid. Which was prerecorded (therefore I assume a reasonable time for both players) and on NA. On April 05 2012 19:00 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players. No, they're worthless. If anybody should realise that small tournament matches don't mean anything it's Stephano fans. He's played 32 games to Koreans this year that are worthwhile (i.e LAN games + Iron Squid) and won 12. That's a 37% win rate. Which is awful. Your figures are selective to support your argument and thus highly suspect. You include games played in IronSquid because Stephano lost them but then ignore other games played cross-server because Stephano actually won them. You ignore the wins this year against Hyun and Violet and Zenio and Polt and dismiss them as meaningless because they were cross server but then include the losses to Polt, Jjakji and Life even though these are cross server too. That's massaging the figures to support your argument and is intellectually dishonest. You cannot simply ignore the data that weakens your argument. If you wish to look at his record in 2012 against Koreans and discuss this, then you need to either look at LAN only results, or include all cross-server games too. You cannot choose LAN only results and then add in a sub-set of the cross-server results and simply ignore the other cross-server results. You've arbitrarily decided which games are worthwhile and which should be ignored and that is so subjective it is meaningless. It could be argued the most important games Stephano has played this year against Koreans were Assembly Final and the Lone Star Clash against Polt. Both were LANs and thousands of dollars were at stake for the outcome of those specific. Personally I think Stephano's record against Koreans should include games from 2011. Stephano played some notable opponents in various Tournaments, and played on Korean Ladder and in Blizzard Cup. Stephano did have a disappointing MLG, but will face some tough opponents in IPL4 and is lined up to play in the IGN Fight Club, probably against MC. While Stephano's no-show is very disappointing behaviour and clearly unprofessional, I don't think attempting to distort his record of past wins/losses serves as a reasonable response.
There's no reason to ignore Stephano's wins against Koreans, but many of those wins are not impressive in the slightest. Hyun is terribad at ZvZ and Inori's PvZ is his worst matchup (Inori has never been able to crack 55% win rate in international competition either, which is kinda pathetic).
There's no reason to include Stephano's games in 2011 unless you want to prove that there is some kind of trend going on. Zenio's ZvP is not nearly as bad as his 2011 record would indicate.
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doh i missed the broadcast of Stephano vs Jjakji. Any replay or vod link ? On youtube they are not it seems 
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On April 05 2012 23:46 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 19:07 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 19:00 Agathon wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. Like some of the losses where played on NA server in the middle of the night for Stephano. If you want to find excuse to koreans to loose to Stephano, you'll have to take into consideration the excuses of Stephano to loose to korean. If you don't your arguments won't be objective, thus worthless. Except all the games I suggested using were played at LAN events, with the exception of Iron Squid. Which was prerecorded (therefore I assume a reasonable time for both players) and on NA. On April 05 2012 19:00 samurai80 wrote:On April 05 2012 18:52 Aemilia wrote:On April 05 2012 18:43 samurai80 wrote:I made a corrected version : + Show Spoiler +
vs Life 1-2 LOST
vs Jjakji 0-2 LOST
vs Inori 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 1-2 LOST
vs Polt 3-1 WON
vs Polt 2-1 WON
vs aLive 0-2 LOST
vs Polt 0-2 LOST
vs Zenio 2-0 WON
vs Polt 1-4 LOST
vs Puma 3-0 WON
vs TypeReaL 2-0 WON
vs Inori 2-0 WON
vs HyuN 2-0 WON
vs Violet 3-2 WIN
vs Polt 3-2 WON
vs MC 0-2 LOST
vs MarineKing 0-2 LOST
vs Sound 0-2 LOST
Some of those games are featuring Koreans playing on the EU server in the middle of the night. They are worthless. I don't think they are worthless. If you had a lot of offline games played by Stephano against koreans, I might have agreed with you, but you have too few games to tell about a winrate. Also many of the games I added (those with the best players) were played during NASL qualifier online on the NA server. The disadvantage is for both players. No, they're worthless. If anybody should realise that small tournament matches don't mean anything it's Stephano fans. He's played 32 games to Koreans this year that are worthwhile (i.e LAN games + Iron Squid) and won 12. That's a 37% win rate. Which is awful. Your figures are selective to support your argument and thus highly suspect. You include games played in IronSquid because Stephano lost them but then ignore other games played cross-server because Stephano actually won them. You ignore the wins this year against Hyun and Violet and Zenio and Polt and dismiss them as meaningless because they were cross server but then include the losses to Polt, Jjakji and Life even though these are cross server too. That's massaging the figures to support your argument and is intellectually dishonest. You cannot simply ignore the data that weakens your argument. If you wish to look at his record in 2012 against Koreans and discuss this, then you need to either look at LAN only results, or include all cross-server games too. You cannot choose LAN only results and then add in a sub-set of the cross-server results and simply ignore the other cross-server results. You've arbitrarily decided which games are worthwhile and which should be ignored and that is so subjective it is meaningless. It could be argued the most important games Stephano has played this year against Koreans were Assembly Final and the Lone Star Clash against Polt. Both were LANs and thousands of dollars were at stake for the outcome of those specific. Personally I think Stephano's record against Koreans should include games from 2011. Stephano played some notable opponents in various Tournaments, and played on Korean Ladder and in Blizzard Cup. Stephano did have a disappointing MLG, but will face some tough opponents in IPL4 and is lined up to play in the IGN Fight Club, probably against MC. While Stephano's no-show is very disappointing behaviour and clearly unprofessional, I don't think attempting to distort his record of past wins/losses serves as a reasonable response.
This.
I dislike Stephano's recent behavior, but that doesn't mean people have the right to twist his results like that.
Aemilia, you're a devoted Stephano hater. Don't deny it because you have been at this for your entire time on TL. You're dedicated to it in the same way that IdrA haters are dedicated to bashing him whenever the opportunity arises.
It's okay to be against hype, and Stephano does deserve a lot of the criticism flying his way, but the way you make your arguments is outside the boundaries of neutrality.
Stephano doesn't have a winning record vs. top Koreans, but he does not have an awful record when put alongside other foreigners and lower level Koreans. Besides HuK and Naniwa, there are few that are able to be mentioned in the same breath.
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On April 06 2012 00:01 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 23:44 The_Darkness wrote:
It's funny reading all of the commenters who are taking Jjakji's beating Stephano so seriously (as evidence of a wide skill gap). If the opposite result had occurred many would discount Stephano's victory because the game was played cross-server and online.
Stephano goes for a delayed all in in game 1 and then loses to two port banshees. Jjakji should definitely be favored to beat Stephano but you can't read too much into such a series. If you want to make a lot out of his game, then I assume you also viewed Stephano's beating MKP and MMA in the IPL3 qualifier as a very important victory for him. I'm guessing those reveling in Stephano's losses do not. Most of course discredited his victories there -- even though both players were familiar with Stephano and his style. (Watch the chat with MMA from game 1 in their series, e.g.).
No Zerg, not Stephano, not Life, not DRG, not Leenock, not Nestea, can consistently beat a top tier Korean Terran like MKP, MMA or Jjakji, which is why all of those Terrans have absurd win rates even in Korea. No Zerg in the world. Not. a. one. On the other hand, those Terran players can consistently beat all of the best Zerg players. The match up is very balanced at the moment, except at the very tippy-top of the spectrum, where Terran continues to be more or less invincible despite Blizzard's best efforts to nerf Terran. DRG can and was able to lol. Until MarineKing started playing as much as good in official matches as in practice . Anyways are people sure that Stephano forfeited because he was already eliminated? I've read somewhere that he prefered streaming because it would make more revenue that day than playing a "pointless" match but I've no idea if that's true. I'm hoping for an official statement.
DRG has had four bad series against Terran in a row (2 against MKP - a god of tvz; Taeja -- a god of tvz; and the STC -- a solid T); his late game play looked very weak for a GSL champ (and Terran's looked very strong -- despite the nerf to ghosts). Of course he "can" take a series off an MMA, Taeja, etc. and he has in the past. However, I said "consistently". I should have instead said that there are at present no zergs IMO who should be favored in a best of X series against any of MMA, MKP, Jjakji and also Taeja at the moment. SC2 is constantly in a state of flux so perhaps this is just a passing trend and next week the pendulum will swing back into Zerg's favor, but it seems like the top Terran have figured out how to beat the top Zergs. (As I noted above, my comments about balance only refer to balance at the very very top of the spectrum.)
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EPT
