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[GSL] 2012 Season 2 Up/Down Matches Day 4 - Page 125
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Baffels
United States1486 Posts
forGG's TvZ makes me cringe these days, really needs to step that practice up. | ||
CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:22 Komentaja wrote: You misunderstand my post on all counts. First, the tied player that advances from the tie without another game played won the roll of the dice that determined he had beat the wrong people -- a.k.a., he was lucky. Second, nobody has the "better record" if they have a tied W/L, if we take all players to be equal. Third, you contradict yourself by asking me how you would "decide who gets to advance" and then saying that my decision you are asking for would be "impractical". I'll assume that you are saying only that my system is impractical. Well, my response to that is, to break a two-player tie, it would take only one extra game. So for 90% of the cases, I don't think that is impractical. To break a three-player tie, it would take a significant number of games, however. In that case, I would have them play 5 games: 1 to figure out the winner of players A and B, 1 to figure out the winner of players B and C, and if in both cases it's B, B advances. If it's B in the first case and C in the second, they play each other 1 game and A plays C 1 game. The winner of B and C faces the winner of A and C, and that game's winner is the one who advances. Complicated, and 5 extra games, but I would still say 5 games that were needed. Obviously the 3-player tie-breaker is not mathematically fair, but it's pretty close. And the three-player tie is very unlikely to happen, even though it happened here. Example with players A, B, and C. A>B, B>C. A>B, B>C. A>B. Player A advances with a maximum of 5 games played. More than 3 players is almost never going to happen, but if it does, it would be impractical to put in a perfectly fair system. Therefore, a roll of the dice (or Gom's system) could determine which of the 4 are the lucky 3 who play each other in the system I described above, or in some similar system. Edit: Logical mistake. Well first I will identify the errors in your reasoning that lead me to disagree with you. On March 16 2012 04:19 Komentaja wrote: The reason I think it's weird is because it allows luck to be a factor. "Unfortunately" (let's say, unluckily) HuK lost against certain people. Therefore those people were valued as somehow better players than the others despite the only basis being a few isolated games that very hour. The situation becomes even more ridiculous when, say, two players are tied and are rated higher than the person that won the group, despite having lower W/L ratios and despite the fact that the winner of the group had already done better than the two tied players. The first and most blatant one is the second sentence. It uses a pragmatic error (substituting one word for another and assuming meanings carry across) to form a dubious assumption, that the head-to-head tiebreaker system allows luck to be a factor. HuK losing to ForGG and Virus is unfortunate in the sense that he has the same overall record, but head-to-head makes it impossible to get a top 2 position. Now HuK can't advance from the group. This has nothing to do with whether he was unlucky, which you need to establish in order to have a competent argument. Notice how throughout this entire paragraph you have not provided one iota of evidence to prove that the head-to-head system is unfair or random or a failed representation of who played the best on that day. You have not provided any criteria to show that the best players are not necessarily reflected by their record. You simply assume that the system is broken from the start - begging the question. The second problem is that your extended scenario makes no sense. How can two players be tied and "rated" higher than the winner of the group? The winner of the group will either have the best individual record based on wins from a fixed pool of games, or he will be tied with the other two and have the best head-to-head score. There is no way that this ForGG 4-2 HuK 3-3 Virus 3-3 can ever become this 1st place: Virus 3-3 2nd place: HuK 3-3 3rd place: ForGG 4-2 even if the internal score is Virus 2-0 HuK 1-1 ForGG 0-2 ForGG will advance based on more individual wins alone. And of course since the person who wins the group necessarily advances from the group, it would fall between Virus and HuK using some type of tiebreaker system. So no, I am not mistaken. You are just wrong. *facepalm* On March 16 2012 04:19 Komentaja wrote: The more logical way to do a tiebreaker is to consider each person in the group as player X, and whoever has the best win percentage (i.e. whoever is the best player that day) among them against X (instead of against a person you happened to be tied with) is determined to be the best player, and advances. This may require more games. GOM already used this system when Alicia, sC, and TheStC tied for second place. That was the second round of tiebreakers since sC beat Alicia, TheStC beat sC, and Alicia beat TheStC. Obvious the head-to-head system couldn't determine a winner. The head-to-head tiebreaker system already serves that purpose by counting all the games the tied players played against each other as a smaller group stage: Virus, ForGG, and HuK are all tied at 3-2. Virus beats ForGG. Virus beats HuK. ForGG beat HuK. Virus goes 2-0. ForGG goes 1-1. HuK goes 0-2. There is no point in counting their results against Brown and Killer because there is no possible way Brown and Killer can advance from the group. So why do we need another system that does the exact same thing but wastes much more time? | ||
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yawnoC
United States3704 Posts
 The one time I wanted ForGG to win he loses | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3691 Posts
What a fucking nailbitter, makes me soooo sad T.T | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:58 chrissummers wrote: So Jinro deserves a seed, too? So hongun does and coca does, noblesse does, keen does, clide does, byun does. AND SO ON. Just because Huk reached top8 once does not make him more worthy of a seed than all these players who actually have better overall stats against korean players. In fact, Huk only got that far because his Code A spot was given to him way back. He never ever qualified for GSL the "real" way and since random results (top8...WOW) do not justify seeds, he does not deserve his spot more ( or just as much ) as other players. So you're saying that him qualifying for Code S "the proper way" doesn't count because he won a Code A seed previously? | ||
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Darkthorn
Romania912 Posts
On March 16 2012 07:33 -_-Quails wrote: So you're saying that him qualifying for Code S "the proper way" doesn't count because he won a Code A seed previously? The one time MC was seeded because of MLG he lost to HUK in the finals of that MLG...also I am not protoss and i am not a huk fanboy although I fancy his play...but saying MC was more deserving to come from code B to code S than huk getting an up and down seed "out of nowhere" is bullshit. | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:58 chrissummers wrote: So Jinro deserves a seed, too? So hongun does and coca does, noblesse does, keen does, clide does, byun does. AND SO ON. Just because Huk reached top8 once does not make him more worthy of a seed than all these players who actually have better overall stats against korean players. In fact, Huk only got that far because his Code A spot was given to him way back. He never ever qualified for GSL the "real" way and since random results (top8...WOW) do not justify seeds, he does not deserve his spot more ( or just as much ) as other players. you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you're obviously biased against huk. GSL wants to promote foreigners, huk is the one of the best foreigners with some of the best results (MLG? top 8 Code S? code S multiple seasons? winter arena? Did all of those players you noted win foreign tournaments/ do well in them like HuK does? HuK get's so many seeds compared to, say, noblesse or keen, because he has won 2 MLG's and placed near the top in multiple tournaments not just because of his good results in code S. if you're going to attempt to make an argument while being extremely biased, at least go through the mental effort of trying to hide it. | ||
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Alethios
New Zealand2765 Posts
Bad luck man, gutted. | ||
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Lunchador
United States776 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IiWaz.jpg) That night was a very spirited competition for everyone. Sooooo close! | ||
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daytrippers
Sweden223 Posts
now zero | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On March 16 2012 08:43 daytrippers wrote: I think I've bought every GSL season so, but didnt this time because only one foriegner + Show Spoiler + now zero Being from Sweden and all you ought to know Nani is playing code S this season ;p. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On March 16 2012 08:43 daytrippers wrote: I think I've bought every GSL season so, but didnt this time because only one foriegner + Show Spoiler + now zero Just wondering but why is more about "whiteys"? you are not even saying foreigner anymore. | ||
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how2TL
1197 Posts
On March 16 2012 08:52 Assirra wrote: Just wondering but why is more about "whiteys"? you are not even saying foreigner anymore. I doubt it's malicious. There have only been white foreigners in Code S so far. | ||
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
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mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On March 16 2012 05:58 chrissummers wrote: So Jinro deserves a seed, too? So hongun does and coca does, noblesse does, keen does, clide does, byun does. AND SO ON. Just because Huk reached top8 once does not make him more worthy of a seed than all these players who actually have better overall stats against korean players. In fact, Huk only got that far because his Code A spot was given to him way back. He never ever qualified for GSL the "real" way and since random results (top8...WOW) do not justify seeds, he does not deserve his spot more ( or just as much ) as other players. Not one of those players has results recently. Huk does. Next? I guess you could ignore Huk's 2 mlg wins if you want but that would only suit your bias. | ||
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bucckevin
858 Posts
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mjf
United States436 Posts
On March 16 2012 09:08 mrtomjones wrote: Not one of those players has results recently. Huk does. Next? I guess you could ignore Huk's 2 mlg wins if you want but that would only suit your bias. just to set the record straight, huk has only had a single bronze medal this year, edit: not very convincing results for huk, either though it does seem that he has stopped travelling so much as he used to | ||
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
On March 15 2012 23:13 tiaz wrote: VIRUUUUUUS! :D Easily the best day of up and downs imo. With wonderful wonderful wonderful results! And you're not even a terran ?? Why no love for Lucky ? | ||
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