[EG MCSL] It's GoSu vs. Team Liquid - Page 9

On March 13 2012 13:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Pretty obvious 3-1 >.>

On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote:
I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes:

Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here.

Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out.

On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote:
I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes:

Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here.

Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out.

EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game.

On March 13 2012 13:55 bennyaus wrote:


I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them.

Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself.

On March 13 2012 13:38 Cornstyle wrote:
I realize this has been a sometimes touchy subject but here goes:

Overall Haypro has not been performing to the level one would expect of a Team Liquid progamer. Yes, there are many arguements for other players who, while not being amongst the top players still contribute in very meaningful ( lucrative) ways to their team. However Haypro has time and again showed a substandard level of play. It couldn't have been more obvious than the snickering that went on between Machine and Demuslim that they expected Haypro to lose in the clan match here.

Liquid is well known for their loyalty to players, but when teams like EG demonstrate their goal is to further their brand, through media and player excellence, that I hope Liquid follows suit to some degree and begins to focus more on their overall team structure and cutting lose the players that are not holding to their high degree of excellence, both in game and out.

EDIT: I feel in order for Liquid to contine to compete with EG they need to evaluate their players and their worth to the team brand as a whole. Liquid is the premiere English speaking SC2 team. They may well lose a large portion of their American audience to EG if they don't begin to adopt some of the business practices of their competitor. I love TL and root for them above all, and yes as a whole the team has been performing amazingly (see the TL all kill of EG by Sheth) Haypro however has been one of the least successful TL'ers since the launch of SC2, both in media and in-game.

In that same vein, you're suggesting cutting NonY and Jinro as well. Liquid's ability to grow players is one of its greatest strengths. They're not out to sign the hottest names.

I feel that you misunderstand Team Liquid and shouldn't be talking in regards to their goals and how they should achieve them.

Nevermind the fact that your post is filled with ignorance about compared performances between teams. Haypro has proven that he is worthy of the Liquid tag on results alone, yet at the end of the day it is irrelevant because the only people it matters to, that he proves that he is worthy to Liquid, is Liquid itself.

On March 13 2012 14:11 Cornstyle wrote:
Am I asking Tl to cut him this instant? No. But the fact remains that I question his value to the team when you compare the work done by the other foreigner teams in regards to talent and or marketability.

And how has idra, or machine, or lzgamer, or incontrol done?

I mean, really~

On March 13 2012 14:18 Cornstyle wrote:


I specifically mentioned the ability of a player to add revenue to his team. Whether this is through drama (Idra), or contributions to the community like Incontrol. Machine as well is at least being marketed well, however it is certainly fair to lump him into the same group as Haypro. All I'm saying is questioning their relative worth to their teams. If Haypro could begin to be marketed through TL then sure. It just seems when a plaryer isn't contributing to his team in a meaningful way, they are on the border to be cut, such as the recent EG cuts.

EG has shown they are very interested in furthering their own brand. Do they need TL to further their exposure? Absoluely as the WEBSITE TL is the premier SC2 site. But the TEAM TL has to comete with the TEAM EG for their own brand. I am not questioning the websites ability to keep its present course, only the progaming team.

They are stuck in an arms race with EG, see the Puma and Hero signings. By and by they are keeping pace. But EG has shown as cold business accumen in terms of getting rid of dead weight.

You're not in a position to evaluate his contributions to the team.

On March 13 2012 14:11 Cornstyle wrote:


I specifically mentioned the fact that some players, NonY in particular, contribute much more to the team than just finishes in tournaments. Jinro as well, he has at least some very very significant finishes in his career that allow him to remain on the team. List some important tournaments that Haypro has either won or placed highly in. Yes Jinro never won a GSL but he has the best finish of any foreigner in the GSL so far.



I do not meant to presume TL's goals. However when basically every other member of their team is either furthering the brand through either media, NonY, or finishes within SC2, (essentially the rest of TL) Haypro is lagging behind. I mean nothing against Haypro personally, yet you cannot deny the fact that both Machine and Demuslim both clearly stated that if there was one of TL they expected to lose, it was Haypro. In addition Haypro does next to notheing to further the TL name in terms of media. The same cannot be said of the EG members who's results don't match with their standing with the team/ community.

Am I asking Tl to cut him this instant? No. But the fact remains that I question his value to the team when you compare the work done by the other foreigner teams in regards to talent and or marketability.