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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
Spoiler Policy: We're removing our spoiler policy for StarCraft 2 news. That means news threads and forum threads can now have spoilers in the title and spoilers in the comments, though posters will still have to stay on topic (i.e. don't post about GSL in an NASL thread). Brood War news and forums will remain on the old spoiler policy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314832 | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:13 MrCon wrote: Everyone kept telling me Ganzi was terrible, I would not hear, and boom, now I have the proof. It was Asha's fault, she's a bad person TT It's just is TvP that is really bad | ||
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FakeDeath
Malaysia6060 Posts
He just got too greedy not building bunkers and it was just a BO loss.4 gate vs double expand without bunkers LOL. | ||
Waxangel
United States33075 Posts
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Bashion
Cook Islands2612 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: It's not that Ganzi is terrible. It's that Ganzi is terrible against protoss. He's pretty solid in TvT and TvZ His TvZ is pretty good indeed, but his TvT is nothing amazing. | ||
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elt
Thailand1092 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:13 Inflicted_ wrote: Mmm, I guess so. People haven't/don't really care about spoiling Assembly results in MLG threads and vice versa. They don't BW spoiler policy still remains in place. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314832 Spoiler Policy: We're removing our spoiler policy for StarCraft 2 news. That means news threads and forum threads can now have spoilers in the title and spoilers in the comments, though posters will still have to stay on topic (i.e. don't post about GSL in an NASL thread). Brood War news and forums will remain on the old spoiler policy. I imagine a lot of people wait for Sayle's re-broadcast in English soooooo... Yeah. | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:11 kckkryptonite wrote: Moletrap is looking for a bar in San Francisco guys. I don't know why but that just got me laughing | ||
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Asha
United Kingdom38149 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:16 Waxangel wrote: well, this series wasn't really indicative of Ganzi's true TvP skill (which is still just average imo), it's just build order losses that could have happened to anyone. meh, you know your TvP kinda sucks when your best wins in korea are in bo1 over Choya and Killer =p He's done better at international events but a lot of it was still reliant on the power of the almighty 1/1/1 | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:16 Waxangel wrote: well, this series wasn't really indicative of Ganzi's true TvP skill (which is still just average imo), it's just build order losses that could have happened to anyone. I don't understand why people keep saying Ganzi is horrible, both games were absolutely BO losses. | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: It's not that Ganzi is terrible. It's that Ganzi is terrible against protoss. He's pretty solid in TvT and TvZ ganzi is absolutely sick player for a very long time belshir was simply a small mistake killing the zealot rather than focusing the stalkers then it snowballed and he lost the second game was just a coinflip from both sides of and hero ended up winning. doesnt really speak about ganzis skill level at all. he might have dual CC'd because he was afraid of playing against hero in a straight up macro game tho but at same time one could argue hero thought the same thing about ganzi thats why he 4gated. honestly i think we saw such huge mindgame from both players side because their respect for one another rather than someone being bad. simply explained, hero would never 4gate someone who he didnt have alot of respect for and regard as a very skilled macro player so please dont come here saying ganzi is bad just because hes not owning as hard as some other slayers players T.T | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:17 Asha` wrote: meh, you know your TvP kinda sucks when your best wins in korea are in bo1 over Choya and Killer. b03 against mc on mlg winter arena? ....2-0 | ||
Shellshock
United States97274 Posts
He said in Korea | ||
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Lysanias
Netherlands8351 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:18 MorroW wrote: ganzi is absolutely sick player for a very long time belshir was simply a small mistake killing the zealot rather than focusing the stalkers then it snowballed and he lost the second game was just a coinflip from both sides of and hero ended up winning. doesnt really speak about ganzis skill level at all. he might have dual CC'd because he was afraid of playing against hero in a straight up macro game tho but at same time one could argue hero thought the same thing about ganzi thats why he 4gated. honestly i think we saw such huge mindgame from both players side because their respect for one another rather than someone being bad so please dont come here saying ganzi is bad just because hes not owning as hard as some other slayers players T.T I think it's fair to say he should have bunkered up early in both games though. Not that it would help to much in that second game but the first he bunkered way to late i feel. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
Anyone remember the series verse BansBans? (I think it was him, the Toss with 10% win rate against Terran)...when Ganzi tried to macro against him way back when he barely could keep up...(just watch the game on Metalopalis) After that he rode the 1-1-1 train (he lost 90% of the games he didn't 1-1-1) and now that Protoss players have gotten better at dealing with it, his weak PvT is catching up with him. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:20 Lysanias wrote: I think it's fair to say he should have bunkered up early in both games though. Not that it would help to much in that second game but the first he bunkered way to late i feel. First game bunker was late because of the BO squeezing out that banshee / tank build, second game bunker was not made because then it would've been too suspicious. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
did he just expect ganzi to be 1 rax FE or something? just seems like a very strange build to pull off | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:18 MorroW wrote: ganzi is absolutely sick player for a very long time belshir was simply a small mistake killing the zealot rather than focusing the stalkers then it snowballed and he lost the second game was just a coinflip from both sides of and hero ended up winning. doesnt really speak about ganzis skill level at all. he might have dual CC'd because he was afraid of playing against hero in a straight up macro game tho but at same time one could argue hero thought the same thing about ganzi thats why he 4gated. honestly i think we saw such huge mindgame from both players side because their respect for one another rather than someone being bad so please dont come here saying ganzi is bad just because hes not owning as hard as some other slayers players T.T To be fair, most SlayerS Terrans have a reputation for being bad against Protoss (or, at least, their weakest MU being vP if you don't want to use the word "bad"). Whether or not this is a result of bad luck and BO losses (a quite extended run of bad luck, if you ask me) or genuinely being weak vP, I do not know, but for what it's worth, Ganzi, Ryung, and MMA all have sub-50% winrates vP (Ganzi's even below 40%) so the reputation isn't unfounded in the eyes of spectators. | ||
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Shellshock
United States97274 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:18 MorroW wrote: ganzi is absolutely sick player for a very long time belshir was simply a small mistake killing the zealot rather than focusing the stalkers then it snowballed and he lost the second game was just a coinflip from both sides of and hero ended up winning. doesnt really speak about ganzis skill level at all. he might have dual CC'd because he was afraid of playing against hero in a straight up macro game tho but at same time one could argue hero thought the same thing about ganzi thats why he 4gated. honestly i think we saw such huge mindgame from both players side because their respect for one another rather than someone being bad so please dont come here saying ganzi is bad just because hes not owning as hard as some other slayers players T.T I guess terrible was too harsh. What I mean is that his tvp is just not up to the level of his other match ups. It's that way with a lot of players. He was able to get through Code A tvp mostly due to the 1-1-1 being very strong. Go back and watch the season he came up through code a. He only beat banbans because of the 1-1-1. His TvT and TvZ are good enough for code S but his TvP definitely isn't. That's not saying it's like Oh I could go play better than him. Not at all. He is definitely a code s quality player overall and I expect him to do just fine in the up and down matches unless he gets like 4 toss in his group. Yes, he did a completely coinflippy build in game 2 and he made a crucial mistake in game 1. I don't blame him for being afraid to play hero in a macro game because Ganzi has always been weaker in a macro game against protoss. I guess instead of saying he is bad, I could say that his play is disappointing, particularly against protoss, for a player of his caliber | ||
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:20 Lysanias wrote: I think it's fair to say he should have bunkered up early in both games though. Not that it would help to much in that second game but the first he bunkered way to late i feel. well tvp is pretty coinflippy early game overall and if he had 1 more unit and concussive shells you would be here saying hero did a mistake of him walking up the ramp. and if nothing happened and he had a bunker one other could argue the bunker was not needed you cant just take a game and see some simple fix to the problem in that specific game to regard it as a real mistake, especially not in a matchup thats known for being so fragile in early game | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On February 29 2012 21:18 Jombozeus wrote: I don't understand why people keep saying Ganzi is horrible, both games were absolutely BO losses. Losing to 3 stalkers is not a bo loss it's just horrible play. If Ganzi had made a bunker at a decent time in game 1, the game goes on. Losing to 4gate when you double expand is also awful. No reason not to make 2-3 bunkers if you don't scout an expansion. If you don't scout and just flip a coin, yeah i guess you could call that a bo loss, but he could still have avoided it. If anything, these games show nothing of Ganzi's tvp because he lost for incredibly stupid mistakes that players make once in hundreds of games. | ||
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