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On March 19 2012 03:23 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:21 Benjamin80 wrote:
Plz stop with the balance crap. Pleanty of good terrans beat protoss players all the time. Bling is just the better player. Just becuase he isnt as popular as Demuslim doesnt mean you have to shit on his achievements! I don't know that he's proven he is a better player, but he is better in that matchup.
True, good point
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On March 19 2012 03:22 Supah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:20 KalWarkov wrote:On March 19 2012 03:18 Dfgj wrote:On March 19 2012 03:18 NeonFox wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2012 03:16 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:13 Denzil wrote:
game 1 looked like demuslim played it way better than bling but bling still won
can any tvp experts explain what happened to me? Not expert, waving my epeen anyways: Both players were maxed out, but Bling had a huge bank of money. Demuslim wasn't able to emp the HTs, so his army took substantial damage. Still, he beat down Bling's army, but wasn't able to capitalize. Bling remaxes (due to banked money) and demuslim goes to drop. Drop kills some workers, it's now 70 workers to Demuslim, 50 to Bling - but Bling has banked money, meaning his army is just 20 supply bigger + Demuslim has a bunch of supply in his drops, meaning Bling's army is 30~ supply larger (15 zeals~) Demuslim can't hold the substantially larger follow-up push. He doesn't micro at all, letting the huge zealot count deal maximum damage. Some storms land as well and that is that. Not an expert either but that last fight he just stood there getting surrounded by zealots and eating the storms. Yeah that was really sloppy from Demuslim, no kiting at all :/ true, he wasnt kiting that 1 fight - but he had to watch everything else, viking positiong, ghosts, keep building stuff etc. what does the protoss do? a click, guardian shield, storm. thats the problem about chargelots - they dont require any actions and you cant do mistakes with them - u just let them run into the terran army More like he only kited in one fight. Do you really think that's all Protoss has to do?
To add my POV, I kind of feel like toss has about as much things to do as terran if we exclude kiting, and kiting is like 50% in the least of the actions terran has to do. I personally think a quite interesting change would be to make charge not automatic and rather have to be pushed(and if nothing is in range, say it'd be active for 3-5 sec until you have to press again).
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On March 19 2012 03:23 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:18 MVTaylor wrote:On March 19 2012 03:17 dragonborn wrote:On March 19 2012 03:16 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On March 19 2012 03:15 RJGooner wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Velr wrote:On March 19 2012 03:13 RJGooner wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 AgentChaos wrote:
bling is now officialy the best uk player I don't really think so. why would you think anything diffrent? TvP is his worst match-up and PvT is Bling's best. If anything it's not very fair to compare the two. Plus I don't think Bling's tournament results are really any better than DeMusliM's every protoss best MU is PvT and every terran worst MU is TvP -.- Polt's best mu is TvP . Which is why Polt beats Stephano EZ and loses to BlinG 2-0. Yeah. good enough to beat hero
also good enough to beating InCa/Creator in IPL 4.
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United States15275 Posts
I think Bling should get the win against Sleep. I have not been impressed with Sleep's late-game ZvP.
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On March 19 2012 03:23 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:19 Huragius wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Yes it doable, but how often do you get to that point ? Most of the time, a good protoss will see you sacking SCV or doing sacrificial drops, and kill you with his 200/200 deathball with 40 gateways resupply. It only works versus quite stupid Protosses or against people who are not familiar with this style. Its just like mass Thors was before nerf. EmpireHappy.. used it vs MaNa, Socke, HasuObs and tons of other very good Protoss players.
And fucking CreatorPrime, maybe you've heard of him  Happy's a boss <3
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On March 19 2012 03:21 EnderCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:18 Jono7272 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:16 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On March 19 2012 03:15 RJGooner wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Velr wrote:On March 19 2012 03:13 RJGooner wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 AgentChaos wrote:
bling is now officialy the best uk player I don't really think so. why would you think anything diffrent? TvP is his worst match-up and PvT is Bling's best. If anything it's not very fair to compare the two. Plus I don't think Bling's tournament results are really any better than DeMusliM's every protoss best MU is PvT and every terran worst MU is TvP -.- True  Hmmm... I don't know if it's so much of balance as terrans lagging behind in the metagame. Terran have been using the same bio style against Protoss for months now. Whereas protoss have incorporated zealot/archon, quick double forge, warp prism, etc. I think the current bio style is just not up to snuff vs your typical protoss death ball.
Or maybe its because Terran has nthg else viable against protoss ? (ok there s 1/1/1 ! )
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On March 19 2012 03:24 Toppp wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Against High Level protoss players, you shouldn't win in lategame unless they make a huge mistake, or get a horrible trade and can't remax instantly with their bank. If you watch how Korean terrans play TvP, their view on the matchup is pretty much end in the early-mid game, If it goes into the late game more than likely you've lost. Find me a Pro replay of a Terran going mass ghost, sure it could be explored.. but it's just not viable unless there are changes to the cost/supply of ghost and their overall attributes.
EmpireHappy, go find replays yourself.
to name you one. EmpireHappy vs CreatorPrime -> Terminus. Huge macro game. Ghosts fucked Creator badly and you don't want to argue that Creator is bad in PvT, do you?
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On March 19 2012 03:21 iNcontroL wrote:
Mods plz check posting history of sventeen and perseverance -- both are player bashing for 2 days straight now. Can you guys plz make tl a bit less hostile. Criticism? Great, calling out my life in every way? Maybe not
I agree, these guys really need to be called out, its gone out of hand
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On March 19 2012 03:19 Meovin- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:19 Huragius wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Yes it doable, but how often do you get to that point ? Most of the time, a good protoss will see you sacking SCV or doing sacrificial drops, and kill you with his 200/200 deathball with 40 gateways resupply. It only works versus quite stupid Protosses or against people who are not familiar with this style. Its just like mass Thors was before nerf. Actually attacking a terran that's defending with nukes and planetary's is suicide
So now Terran has Mass Ghosts, Planetary's Walls and Nukes ? So I can say something stupid like protoss having 20 3/3 Carriers and HT supporting them...
Stop taking super-turtle games (40 min no rush mkay?) as a propriate TvP example. And even so, smart protoss is heavily favored at this type of game, if he just doesn't max on Collo/Zealot with something like 5 HT.
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On March 19 2012 03:23 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:19 Huragius wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Yes it doable, but how often do you get to that point ? Most of the time, a good protoss will see you sacking SCV or doing sacrificial drops, and kill you with his 200/200 deathball with 40 gateways resupply. It only works versus quite stupid Protosses or against people who are not familiar with this style. Its just like mass Thors was before nerf. EmpireHappy.. used it vs MaNa, Socke, HasuObs and tons of other very good Protoss players.
You would think people would stop arguing with someone who plays the game professionally.
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On March 19 2012 03:24 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:22 Supah wrote:On March 19 2012 03:20 KalWarkov wrote:On March 19 2012 03:18 Dfgj wrote:On March 19 2012 03:18 NeonFox wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2012 03:16 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:13 Denzil wrote:
game 1 looked like demuslim played it way better than bling but bling still won
can any tvp experts explain what happened to me? Not expert, waving my epeen anyways: Both players were maxed out, but Bling had a huge bank of money. Demuslim wasn't able to emp the HTs, so his army took substantial damage. Still, he beat down Bling's army, but wasn't able to capitalize. Bling remaxes (due to banked money) and demuslim goes to drop. Drop kills some workers, it's now 70 workers to Demuslim, 50 to Bling - but Bling has banked money, meaning his army is just 20 supply bigger + Demuslim has a bunch of supply in his drops, meaning Bling's army is 30~ supply larger (15 zeals~) Demuslim can't hold the substantially larger follow-up push. He doesn't micro at all, letting the huge zealot count deal maximum damage. Some storms land as well and that is that. Not an expert either but that last fight he just stood there getting surrounded by zealots and eating the storms. Yeah that was really sloppy from Demuslim, no kiting at all :/ true, he wasnt kiting that 1 fight - but he had to watch everything else, viking positiong, ghosts, keep building stuff etc. what does the protoss do? a click, guardian shield, storm. thats the problem about chargelots - they dont require any actions and you cant do mistakes with them - u just let them run into the terran army More like he only kited in one fight. Do you really think that's all Protoss has to do? yes, and i play it on a fairly decent level. its different in PvZ, you ahve to care about runbys, there is possiblty of mutas, you have to forcefield well - but in PvT you basically just a click and storm, thats pretty sad.
why even bother typing stuff everyone knows simply isnt true
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On March 19 2012 03:18 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:14 DISHU wrote:On March 19 2012 03:13 0ne wrote:On March 19 2012 03:11 Badfatpanda wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 0ne wrote:
Demuslim why you tilt so much This isn't a tilt, most likely it's a planned build order. Korhal is shit to take a third in this matchup, and DeMu does this build a LOT on stream, if BlinG wouldn't have sent that stalker along the left side it might have been a straight up win. This isn't tilt?  Benjamin Baker @DeMusliM protoss is actually pretty bullshit. he seems to moan a lot broken mindset really sad big fan of him but his attitude is a let down. Sjow tvp is solid he should looka t him a bit more often. Yeah there are terrans like Sjow and Kas who are really solid in TvP. Its not like foreigner terrans get absolutely demolished in this match-up. I'm a terran player myself and I think the MU is not hopeless at all. Lategame it gets a bit iffy, but considering how good terran is at the phase you are supposed to take a third and how hard it can be on Korhal, I think Demuslim just made the wrong build here.
they get vikings at the same time demuslim had but there 3rd and ghost are waaay faster allowing them to put a lot of pressure on the toss third. it seems to me that demuslim let the 3rd of the protoss up waay to easy he tried 1st game but was to late. also they scan on top of there army more looking for obs . little things that demuslim used to do hopefully someone from EG will point out the little mistakes in his game play.
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On March 19 2012 03:24 Kevan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:22 ceaRshaf wrote:
This tournament is weird, cause we already know Polt will win it. Stephano 2nd so the big questions are 3rd and 4th I guess. White Ra needs to win something so I hope it's him. Violet might still win the entire thing.
If he remembers to save buildings during base trades
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Something about EG... Only puma seems to be able to pull his weight.
DeMuslim is either sick or tilting, whatever, he just can't seem to choose the deal. It's been ages since Huk or Idra really wowed us, especially the latter. Incontrol is quite frankly more an Artosis in that he can cast but can't play. JYP, a talent that never really blossomed. Sigh wonder what EG is doing wrong
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On March 19 2012 03:24 Toppp wrote:
Against High Level protoss players, you shouldn't win in lategame unless they make a huge mistake, or get a horrible trade and can't remax instantly with their bank.
If you watch how Korean terrans play TvP, their view on the matchup is pretty much end in the early-mid game, If it goes into the late game more than likely you've lost. Find me a Pro replay of a Terran going mass ghost, sure it could be explored.. but it's just not viable unless there are changes to the cost/supply of ghost and their overall attributes.
Expecting to win in the early/mid game is also unrealistic unless they make a huge mistake. As soon as BlinG split his army and put a few Stalkers in his main to defend drops I knew the game was won.
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stephano beat polt, then polt loose to violet and z vs z final stephano-violet, violet win.
Not what i am hoping for,(want polt to win) but what i am thinking.
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On March 19 2012 03:15 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:14 Velr wrote:On March 19 2012 03:13 RJGooner wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 AgentChaos wrote:
bling is now officialy the best uk player I don't really think so. why would you think anything diffrent? TvP is his worst match-up and PvT is Bling's best. If anything it's not very fair to compare the two. Plus I don't think Bling's tournament results are really any better than DeMusliM's
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard this recently. For EVERY Terran TvP is their worst and for EVERY Protoss PvT is their best. Stop citing crap like that like it matters... All the Terrans that used to be known for good TvP (JJakJi, PumA, Demuslim, etc.) are mediocre at best now in TvP.
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On March 19 2012 03:23 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:19 Huragius wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Yes it doable, but how often do you get to that point ? Most of the time, a good protoss will see you sacking SCV or doing sacrificial drops, and kill you with his 200/200 deathball with 40 gateways resupply. It only works versus quite stupid Protosses or against people who are not familiar with this style. Its just like mass Thors was before nerf. EmpireHappy.. used it vs MaNa, Socke, HasuObs and tons of other very good Protoss players.
even vs creator prime and it worked. its true... but i still think the opponents he faced didnt adjust well enough, you have to stop building any templar/archon and just build huge gateway armys with many observers and 3-4 colossus imo vs that style
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On March 19 2012 03:23 Type|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 03:19 Huragius wrote:On March 19 2012 03:14 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:12 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:08 Fragile51 wrote:On March 19 2012 03:07 Type|NarutO wrote:On March 19 2012 03:05 Toppp wrote:On March 19 2012 03:01 Type|NarutO wrote:
30 3-3 Ghost would have won that fight without much of a problem. Too bad Terrans don't like Ghosts :/. Rofl. You have no idea. Good luck affording 30 3-3 Ghost AND retaining all of them throughout the game buddy, that's way too unrealistic. Retaining your extremely expensive Ghost during trades/engagements is near impossible, they may be sturdy, but for their cost, not so much. It's highly impractical/impossible to go pure mass ghost vs Protoss because of cost, supply, and the fact that they have to have support. I have no clue... okay! Try it first, when I can get to a mass-ghost late game, DemusliM certainly can as well. Wait what? A pro terran trying new stuff and having to defend himself against forumgoers? x_x wtf am i reading I might not be pro but I'm high master and I've tryed all sorts of stuff for late game TvP. I know it's just impractical to mass ghost vs Protoss in the late game. Only way to win against a good protoss lategame is to have to have the perfect mix of units and planetarys splitting the map with Nuke Harass and doom drops. I can send you a replay where a Protoss with nearly unlimited ressources (15000/8000) didn't finish me when he could and couldn't after I got my ghost count up. No amount of colossi nor anything else could save him, everything just emp'ed and cloaked ghosts are durable. =.=! Why don't you just try it, its not EASY but its do-able. Yes it doable, but how often do you get to that point ? Most of the time, a good protoss will see you sacking SCV or doing sacrificial drops, and kill you with his 200/200 deathball with 40 gateways resupply. It only works versus quite stupid Protosses or against people who are not familiar with this style. Its just like mass Thors was before nerf. EmpireHappy.. used it vs MaNa, Socke, HasuObs and tons of other very good Protoss players.
Yes and I saw those games. All they did were turtling, while letting Happy mass expand, sack SCVs/Marines/Marauders and get huge supply of ghosts. None of them went for the timing right before it to kill Happy, which would be pretty much unstoppable with proper gateway resupply.
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Great this guy Heaven is still in the tournament -_-.
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EPT
