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On February 13 2012 20:05 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:03 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 20:00 HolyArrow wrote:On February 13 2012 19:57 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 19:55 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. Puzzle won Code A and was in the quarterfinals last season. No Protoss in 2011 even made a GSL final except for MC and Inca. Puzzle is easily a top five Protoss and is right there with MC, Parting, Oz and Genius. How can you call Genius top 5? Sure when he's hot he's hot, but he slumped for an entire year before returning to form? Far too inconsistent. I'd say HerO would take a "top 5" spot over Genius. Alright then I counter your Genius argument with Naniwa. Yet another struggling code A, but has beat all those you mentioned before (not sure about sC) AND has beaten MVP. Or even Huk. I'm not calling Genius bad, but I reallllly don't think he's deserving of top 5 unless you only highlight his play in 1 month out of like 15. Currently based on recent performance,Genius would definitely take the top 5.Hero is barely Code A and he did not even qualify out of his group at IEM Kiev.His performance recently is not being good whereas Genius is performing well in the GSL Code S. Strongly disagree. HerO has yet to even do well in Code A while Genius currently has a hitlist that includes DRG, Nestea, MKP, and sC. That is a damn impressive hitlist. Genius clearly has shown through some amazing decisionmaking and calm play that he has great control of his nerves in the both, something that HerO has clearly lacked. Don't get me wrong - I like HerO and he's an amazing player when his nerves aren't killing him. He's capable of hanging with the best when he's playing his best. But Genius has shown the mental strength to excel in Code S, while HerO flounders in Code A. HerO has a ways to go in terms of mental toughness before he's ready to tackle the GSL.
I wrote that? Damn I'm sexy.
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On February 13 2012 19:57 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 19:55 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. Puzzle won Code A and was in the quarterfinals last season. No Protoss in 2011 even made a GSL final except for MC and Inca. Puzzle is easily a top five Protoss and is right there with MC, Parting, Oz and Genius. How can you call Genius top 5? Sure when he's hot he's hot, but he slumped for an entire year before returning to form? Far too inconsistent. I'd say HerO would take a "top 5" spot over Genius.
Demolished nerds last team league, most feared player in group selections.
HerO has no results in Korea and is even more inconsistent than Genius. You see, when you talk about who's top X, you have to actually have facts and not just "well, I like him more".
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On February 13 2012 20:03 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:00 HolyArrow wrote:On February 13 2012 19:57 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 19:55 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. Puzzle won Code A and was in the quarterfinals last season. No Protoss in 2011 even made a GSL final except for MC and Inca. Puzzle is easily a top five Protoss and is right there with MC, Parting, Oz and Genius. How can you call Genius top 5? Sure when he's hot he's hot, but he slumped for an entire year before returning to form? Far too inconsistent. I'd say HerO would take a "top 5" spot over Genius. Strongly disagree. HerO has yet to even do well in Code A while Genius currently has a hitlist that includes DRG, Nestea, MKP, and sC. That is a damn impressive hitlist. Genius clearly has shown through some amazing decisionmaking and calm play that he has great control of his nerves in the both, something that HerO has clearly lacked. Don't get me wrong - I like HerO and he's an amazing player when his nerves aren't killing him. He's capable of hanging with the best when he's playing his best. But Genius has shown the mental strength to excel in Code S, while HerO flounders in Code A. HerO has a ways to go in terms of mental toughness before he's ready to tackle the GSL. Alright then I counter your Genius argument with Naniwa. Yet another struggling code A, but has beat all those you mentioned before (not sure about sC) AND has beaten MVP. Or even Huk. I'm not calling Genius bad, but I reallllly don't think he's deserving of top 5 unless you only highlight his play in 1 month out of like 15.
The part about struggling with Code A is the important part. Don't forget that he started showing great play before Code S even began - he 4-0'd his Up/Down group to get into Code S. Top Koreans clearly value Code S the most out of any other tournament in the world, and thus I find that it's best to use GSL results to judge players, with other tournaments being secondary. Still relevant - but secondary. Play in the GSL is the pinnacle of preparation and practice. I guarantee you that when Naniwa beat MVP and Nestea and MLG, MVP and Nestea were miles less prepared than when they play in the GSL.
I can see your point, and I think it all comes down to us valuing different things. If you want to weight non-GSL achievements as much as GSL achievements, then fine, you can make arguments for why perhaps Naniwa or HerO is a top 5 Protoss right now, but I feel that since GSL is the most prestigious, most sought, highest-level tournament in the world, results from that matter the most. That's why we've been calling Nestea the best Zerg in the world for most of last year - his GSL results have been great, despite performing pretty badly in foreign tournaments.
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I feel like "even more" isn't accurate, maybe "just as". Has Genius won anything besides Blizzcon 2010?
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United States97276 Posts
On February 13 2012 20:07 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 19:57 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 19:55 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. Puzzle won Code A and was in the quarterfinals last season. No Protoss in 2011 even made a GSL final except for MC and Inca. Puzzle is easily a top five Protoss and is right there with MC, Parting, Oz and Genius. How can you call Genius top 5? Sure when he's hot he's hot, but he slumped for an entire year before returning to form? Far too inconsistent. I'd say HerO would take a "top 5" spot over Genius. Demolished nerds last team league, most feared player in group selections. HerO has no results in Korea and is even more inconsistent than Genius. You see, when you talk about who's top X, you have to actually have facts and not just "well, I like him more".
top x doesnt matter. 2nd place is 1st loser. 
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I liked puzzle in the past because he has the best forcefields (yes, even better than mc's). But after seeing his games over the past year, i find he's similar to MC, good micro and decision making in engagements but questionable decisions in terms of the overall game. I feel these type of players can easily get near 60% win rate, but to win gsls, they need some luck and good pre-game preparations. Parting is definitely the toss to watch in the future even if he doesn't do well in this gsl.
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On February 13 2012 20:08 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:03 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 20:00 HolyArrow wrote:On February 13 2012 19:57 Zdrastochye wrote:On February 13 2012 19:55 Fionn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. Puzzle won Code A and was in the quarterfinals last season. No Protoss in 2011 even made a GSL final except for MC and Inca. Puzzle is easily a top five Protoss and is right there with MC, Parting, Oz and Genius. How can you call Genius top 5? Sure when he's hot he's hot, but he slumped for an entire year before returning to form? Far too inconsistent. I'd say HerO would take a "top 5" spot over Genius. Strongly disagree. HerO has yet to even do well in Code A while Genius currently has a hitlist that includes DRG, Nestea, MKP, and sC. That is a damn impressive hitlist. Genius clearly has shown through some amazing decisionmaking and calm play that he has great control of his nerves in the both, something that HerO has clearly lacked. Don't get me wrong - I like HerO and he's an amazing player when his nerves aren't killing him. He's capable of hanging with the best when he's playing his best. But Genius has shown the mental strength to excel in Code S, while HerO flounders in Code A. HerO has a ways to go in terms of mental toughness before he's ready to tackle the GSL. Alright then I counter your Genius argument with Naniwa. Yet another struggling code A, but has beat all those you mentioned before (not sure about sC) AND has beaten MVP. Or even Huk. I'm not calling Genius bad, but I reallllly don't think he's deserving of top 5 unless you only highlight his play in 1 month out of like 15. The part about struggling with Code A is the important part. Don't forget that he started showing great play before this tournament even began - he 4-0'd his Up/Down group to get into Code S. Top Koreans clearly value Code S the most out of any other tournament in the world, and thus I find that it's best to use GSL results to judge players, with other tournaments being secondary. Still relevant - but secondary. Play in the GSL is the pinnacle of preparation and practice. I guarantee you that when Naniwa beat MVP and Nestea and MLG, MVP and Nestea were miles less prepared than when they play in the GSL. I can see your point, and I think it all comes down to us valuing different things. If you want to weight non-GSL achievements as much as GSL achievements, then fine, you can make arguments for why perhaps Naniwa or HerO is a top 5 Protoss right now, but I feel that since GSL is the most prestigious, most sought, highest-level tournament in the world, results from that matter the most. That's why we've been calling Nestea the best Zerg in the world for most of last year - his GSL results have been great, despite performing pretty badly in foreign tournaments.
To be fair, I'm only valuing non-GSL performances because that's the only place where someone who's struggling in code A will ever play an MVP, or a DRG, etc. I don't really care about foreigners beating foreigners, but if you beat a top Korean at an offline event, I think it's noteworthy.
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You can't put HerO anywhere near the top 5 protoss imo, I like the guy, he is great to watch when on song, but really does crumble under the pressure.
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I'm fine with that. I'm just really against Genius as being a top 5 protoss. If he actually is top 5, then there are only 4 good protoss in the world.
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On February 13 2012 19:55 dragonborn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. won a GSL code A and played round of 8 in last GSL. This make you top 3 protoss since MC is only protoss/GSL champion... and yet again he is in round of 8 GSL.
agreed, top 3 Toss right now
1) SK.MC
2) PartinG
3) Puzzle / Genius
others like HuK or Naniwa have felt behind way too much to be considered top tier material, also Oz hasnt impressed much since GSL November.
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Hmm, why no corrupters DRG?
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On February 13 2012 20:16 GodOfWar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 19:55 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:53 Toppp wrote:On February 13 2012 19:50 dragonborn wrote:On February 13 2012 19:41 R!! wrote:On February 13 2012 19:39 VoirDire wrote:
If JJ just built his aggressive bunker earlier he would've won. Anyway, we get to see DRG vs puzzle now :D I am fine with DRG beating these top terrans, he as good as them, what I am not fine with is puzzle/parting beating jjakji/mvp, good thing I don't get to see this baffling scenario. Are you kidding me? Puzzle is probably top 3 protoss since 2011.He is always been good and beating top players. Haha, no. Puzzle is far from top 3 protoss, and didn't show any results in 2011. won a GSL code A and played round of 8 in last GSL. This make you top 3 protoss since MC is only protoss/GSL champion... and yet again he is in round of 8 GSL. agreed, top 3 Toss right now 1) SK.MC 2) PartinG 3) Puzzle / Genius others like HuK or Naniwa have felt behind way too much to be considered top tier material, also Oz hasnt impressed much since GSL November.
PartinG is still need to prove himself.Puzzle played back to back round of 8 in GSL.
1.MC
2.Puzzle
3.Oz/PartinG then Genius&co.
Puzzle is still more successful than PartinG.
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On February 13 2012 20:14 Zdrastochye wrote:
I'm fine with that. I'm just really against Genius as being a top 5 protoss. If he actually is top 5, then there are only 4 good protoss in the world.
I dunno. I feel like playing amazing Starcraft consistently for a month straight is enough to prove yourself, and that's really what Genius has done. 4-0'd his Up/Down group, and proceeded to beat strong Terrans like MKP and sC, along with the 2 best Zergs in the world, not to mention he was picked last in the group stages, which says a lot about how the other Korean players perceive him. But I've made my case as well as I can, if you have a different standard for evaluating deservingness of top-5 status then that's fine.
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On February 13 2012 20:21 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 20:14 Zdrastochye wrote:
I'm fine with that. I'm just really against Genius as being a top 5 protoss. If he actually is top 5, then there are only 4 good protoss in the world. I dunno. I feel like playing amazing Starcraft consistently for a month straight is enough to prove yourself, and that's really what Genius has done. 4-0'd his Up/Down group, and proceeded to beat strong Terrans like MKP and sC, along with the 2 best Zergs in the world, not to mention he was picked last in the group stages, which says a lot about how the other Korean players perceive him. But I've made my case as well as I can, if you have a different standard for evaluating deservingness of top-5 status then that's fine.
Yeah that's fine, agree to disagree. My standards are that if you haven't won a single tournament since Oct of 2010, you're not a top 5 anything.
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omg turns out DRG has a weakness after all
Rally points
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Calling 3 immortal mass sentry + warpprism play right now !
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Zdrastochye, you do realize that if there was only one mayor event and you would be consistently in the top 5 you wouldn't have to win it EVER to be in the top 5? You just have to be at least fifth all the time.
If we will decide the mayor event is GSL then as long as you have only 4 better tosses you are in the top 5.
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oh my god!! Epic force fields by puzzle and epic flank by DRG!!
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EPT
