On February 09 2012 14:19 babylon wrote: Where is this DRG ZvZ hype coming from?
His last televised ZvZ game in Korea ... was to Stephano. Which he lost. His last encounters in the foreign scene were against NeeL (2-1), Sen (2-1), LaLush (2-1), Leenock (3-4), and FD (3-2). That is not impressive. Sorry.
Meanwhile NesTea has still only dropped ZvZ games to three players ever in Korea (last being Leenock in a Bo1). Sure, he lost to HayprO at MLG (1-2), but he was playing far below his usual level and didn't have time to prepare, which is when he really shines. He will have had plenty of time to prepare here. And it's a Bo3, so no room for "random chance."
NesTea has a 90% win-rate in ZvZ with plenty of games played and he has only ever dropped ZvZs to six players in his history of televised games. DRG .... doesn't have that at all.
NesTea is certainly the favourite but DRG is no slouch in ZvZ. He hasn't played many televised games but if you include online tournaments it looks like this (plus a 2-1 over Symbol in the FXOpen invitational), with a 20-5 record (80%). In fact, I'm not aware of a single ZvZ series that DRG has lost in Korea, with the exception of that Bo1 against Stephano. His only series ZvZ losses in foreign tournaments were to Leenock (during which he had food poisoning) and Coca.
NesTea has obviously proven himself to be the best in the world at ZvZ, but I don't think it's outrageous to say that DRG has made a firm claim for second-place (Who else is up there now, actually? Leenock? But he recently lost to July, of all people). They've yet to play each-other though so the most we can do is speculate. Hopefully they'll be good games.
No, I have no bone to pick with you. I'm just confused by everyone saying that DRG's ZvZ is on another level compared to NesTea's and that NesTea won't be able to keep up. That's absurd.
DRG is another one of those guys who does well when playing off the cuff, which is why he's always been able to blitz through the GSTL, to place high at MLGs, and to do well in online tournaments. He's good with preparation too, of course, but NesTea's a whole 'nother beast when he has time to study an opponent, especially for ZvZ and ZvP.
Nestea's got the advantage in ZvZ, clearly. Yeah sure he lost a few games but its a rarity for any player to maintain a 90% win rate in a match up over a long period of time, never mind 70-80% (Flash maintains a overall 70% win rate in all match ups and arguably overall the best player of SC2 MVP is around 65%). Though Nestea will pretty much always have some trouble with Terrans, so he's susceptible to MarineKing.
On February 09 2012 15:11 songohan wrote: I knew you would say that. However. being #1 on the korean ladder takes insane skill. There are a select few players that actually like to hold back. Some of those are Nestea and his disciple MVP. This doesn't mean that the majority of the players aren't trying on the Korean Ladder. Idra can't even get into top 100 and Huk is hovering around 50-100.
"I knew you'd say that" isn't a valid counterargument. MKP has always had an amazing record on ladder and a very, very high ranking. Doesn't change the fact that he's never won the GSL, nor does it change the fact that using ladder as indication of who's going to do well in the GSL is absolutely silly. Nerves are a huge part of being a strong competitor, and that's a factor that doesn't take affect on ladder. Whether or not MKP has improved his handling of nerves, I do not know, but I do know that looking at ladder ranking and records is an absolutely terrible indication of who will actually deliver in the GSL.
On February 09 2012 14:19 babylon wrote: Where is this DRG ZvZ hype coming from?
His last televised ZvZ game in Korea ... was to Stephano. Which he lost. His last encounters in the foreign scene were against NeeL (2-1), Sen (2-1), LaLush (2-1), Leenock (3-4), and FD (3-2). That is not impressive. Sorry.
Meanwhile NesTea has still only dropped ZvZ games to three players ever in Korea (last being Leenock in a Bo1). Sure, he lost to HayprO at MLG (1-2), but he was playing far below his usual level and didn't have time to prepare, which is when he really shines. He will have had plenty of time to prepare here. And it's a Bo3, so no room for "random chance."
NesTea has a 90% win-rate in ZvZ with plenty of games played and he has only ever dropped ZvZs to six players in his history of televised games. DRG .... doesn't have that at all.
NesTea is certainly the favourite but DRG is no slouch in ZvZ. He hasn't played many televised games but if you include online tournaments it looks like this (plus a 2-1 over Symbol in the FXOpen invitational), with a 20-5 record (80%). In fact, I'm not aware of a single ZvZ series that DRG has lost in Korea, with the exception of that Bo1 against Stephano. His only series ZvZ losses in foreign tournaments were to Leenock (during which he had food poisoning) and Coca.
NesTea has obviously proven himself to be the best in the world at ZvZ, but I don't think it's outrageous to say that DRG has made a firm claim for second-place (Who else is up there now, actually? Leenock? But he recently lost to July, of all people). They've yet to play each-other though so the most we can do is speculate. Hopefully they'll be good games.
No, I have no bone to pick with you. I'm just confused by everyone saying that DRG's ZvZ is on another level compared to NesTea's and that NesTea won't be able to keep up. That's absurd.
DRG is another one of those guys who does well when playing off the cuff, which is why he's always been able to blitz through the GSTL, to place high at MLGs, and to do well in online tournaments. He's good with preparation too, of course, but NesTea's a whole 'nother beast when he has time to study an opponent, especially for ZvZ and ZvP.
I feel that DRG's zvz is better than nestea's, and it's an opinion formulated from watching the games themselves, not from looking at the player names and stats.
Yes DRG lost to stephano by doing a baneling all in, which stephano held off with immaculate unit control. The game was very close and could have gone either way. Guess what, Leenock vs Nestea showed the same kind of build order war, and nestea's micro was abysmal (by high level zvz standards) and he got destroyed by the baneling all in.
Having watched a lot of the recent games by both, DRG's play in ZvZ just looks much cleaner, much better, and much more exciting. He got build order countered by Losira four times in a best of seven and still won 4-1, and DRG was by far the dominant player in that entire series. Even though Nestea has also 4-0'd Losira in the past, DRG's win looked even more convincing.
On February 09 2012 16:00 Flexis wrote: Please nestea, do a strong performance today and invent new strategies with it! I want your comeback to be complete!
On February 09 2012 14:48 iSometric wrote: Drg and Genius go through. MKP will be 0-4.
have you checked the ladder recently? he's #1 with over a 100 points gap and 80% winrate. nestea is hanging around 10 but we can assume that he's not playing his best. dong rae gu and genius will have to do a miracle to get through.
Please read SCs interviews before and after facing Nestea back in may. Ladder means nothing.
On February 09 2012 15:11 songohan wrote: I knew you would say that. However. being #1 on the korean ladder takes insane skill. There are a select few players that actually like to hold back. Some of those are Nestea and his disciple MVP. This doesn't mean that the majority of the players aren't trying on the Korean Ladder. Idra can't even get into top 100 and Huk is hovering around 50-100.
"I knew you'd say that" isn't a valid counterargument. MKP has always had an amazing record on ladder and a very, very high ranking. Doesn't change the fact that he's never won the GSL, nor does it change the fact that using ladder as indication of who's going to do well in the GSL is absolutely silly. Nerves are a huge part of being a strong competitor, and that's a factor that doesn't take affect on ladder. Whether or not MKP has improved his handling of nerves, I do not know, but I do know that looking at ladder ranking and records is an absolutely terrible indication of who will actually deliver in the GSL.
You're missing the point.
That's not a valid argument either. My point stands and it's pretty clear from the other responses that pretty much everyone thinks that ladder is a silly way to judge how someone will do in the GSL. If I'm truly missing your point, then please restate it clearly, because all you seem to be saying is "MKP is amazing on ladder, he's clearly going to roll face in the GSL!", and no one here agrees with that logic.
so hyped up for this day.. i hope i can set up gomplayer at my new workplace i want every 4 players to advance, but i think DRG and Genius will make it
On February 09 2012 15:17 Mobius_1 wrote: NesTea - once again scary DongRaeGu - always scary MarineKing - always scary Genius - recently scary
This group is going to make for amazing games and crazy balance whine. You are not prepared.
Also MKP fighting! End the Kong!
Wow are you serious? MKP was always scary while Nestea is only once again scary? You do realize if we are calling what Nestea did in the past few months slumping then MKP has been slumping far far worse for over a year.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/neoghaleon55/LOL.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c146/neoghaleon55/bulgogi-3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rrbEo.jpg)
