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On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one. in USA (and Europe) other sports are infinitely more popular, but it seems in Europe it's mainly futbol, but in USA we have football, baseball, basketball...that are all HUGE (not as big as futbol...but that's because far far more countries participate in futbol)
Got to love when Americans A) Know nothing at all about Europe and B) Act like Europe is one country when most of us can't even speak to each other nevermind have the same culture.
In England Football is the biggest sport but Rugby and Cricket are extremely popular.
In France Rugby is extremely popular.
In Scandinavia and Russia Handball and Ice Hockey rival football in popularity.
In Spain they like Basketball.
And all of Europe likes Tennis.
Anyway, cultural focus on education has nothing at all to do with how good you are at Starcraft. The biggest factor is the cultural prevalence of gaming (more specifically RTS games), which has no correlation to the significance of education.
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On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one.
I agree. Not just gaming, but PC gaming in particular. I feel like console gaming has always been a bigger in the US. For example, if you look at MLG its got Halo, whereas at Dreamhack you would have people playing a CS tournament instead.
I think especially in eastern Europe console gaming never really got popular and PC gaming is the norm. That would explain why there are so many great players from there, although of course it helps that they can often live comfortably on the salary they get from a team.
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On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one. in USA (and Europe) other sports are infinitely more popular, but it seems in Europe it's mainly futbol, but in USA we have football, baseball, basketball...that are all HUGE (not as big as futbol...but that's because far far more countries participate in futbol)
Pretty much this. Gaming professionaly in the US is not well known or accepted by the majority of the community. 98% of the people you talk to in the US will laugh or say, "hahah! good one" if you say you are a 'professional gamer'. Saying something about 'schooling' is not the best way to describe why gaming isn't popular here. It has more to do with the mentality of playing video games. People in the US see video games as 'unhealthy'. Yes, lots of Americans play video games recreationally, but in no way are we about to brag to the majority of the community about our 'gaming skills'.
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I feel that the Rekrul "Foreigners still suck" is very relevant for idra here .
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=88342
"HEY MY OPPONENT IS SUPPOSED TO DO THIS BECAUSE THATS WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO AND I KNEW HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO THAT SO I DID EXACTLY WHAT BEATS WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO BUT HE'S DUMB AND DIDN'T DO WHAT I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO COUNTER EASILY."
Well that explains all there to know about Idra.
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On February 14 2012 03:25 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one. in USA (and Europe) other sports are infinitely more popular, but it seems in Europe it's mainly futbol, but in USA we have football, baseball, basketball...that are all HUGE (not as big as futbol...but that's because far far more countries participate in futbol) Got to love when Americans A) Know nothing at all about Europe and B) Act like Europe is one country when most of us can't even speak to each other nevermind have the same culture. In England Football is the biggest sport but Rugby and Cricket are extremely popular. In France Rugby is extremely popular. In Scandinavia and Russia Handball and Ice Hockey rival football in popularity. In Spain they like Basketball. And all of Europe likes Tennis. Anyway, cultural focus on education has nothing at all to do with how good you are at Starcraft. The biggest factor is the cultural prevalence of gaming (more specifically RTS games), which has no correlation to the significance of education.
Got to love when one American says something it becomes how all Americans perceive something.
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where the frack is the rebroadcast being held?
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Don't watch it, it's a waste of 37 minutes.
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On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude
Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed.
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i get it the games suck, but still hypothetically if someone wanted to watch...
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On February 14 2012 03:50 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:25 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one. in USA (and Europe) other sports are infinitely more popular, but it seems in Europe it's mainly futbol, but in USA we have football, baseball, basketball...that are all HUGE (not as big as futbol...but that's because far far more countries participate in futbol) Got to love when Americans A) Know nothing at all about Europe and B) Act like Europe is one country when most of us can't even speak to each other nevermind have the same culture. In England Football is the biggest sport but Rugby and Cricket are extremely popular. In France Rugby is extremely popular. In Scandinavia and Russia Handball and Ice Hockey rival football in popularity. In Spain they like Basketball. And all of Europe likes Tennis. Anyway, cultural focus on education has nothing at all to do with how good you are at Starcraft. The biggest factor is the cultural prevalence of gaming (more specifically RTS games), which has no correlation to the significance of education. Got to love when one American says something it becomes how all Americans perceive something.
Why the fuck do these threads continually devolve into nationalistic bullshit.
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Dear Europeans,
Don't watch the rebroadcast. The average game length is under 5 minutes. It was a joke of a series, and quite honestly, a disgrace to the legitimacy of eSports.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On February 14 2012 04:10 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed.
Context.
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On February 14 2012 04:10 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed.
Stop acting like two SIX POOLS in a row is in anyway shape or form an all in. It was a "fuck this", not a calculated strategy or anything. Especially once alive had easily blocked the first one and was even able to predict the
second
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is it late? or is it not on nasltv?
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On February 14 2012 04:14 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 04:10 Bellygareth wrote:On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed. Context.
I know that Idra allined more out of spite. But what kind of guy opens a showmatch serie by allinning twice? It's pretty clear aLive played the "let's Tilt Idra" game and it works. It's ok for a GSL match. But for a showmatch? Don't you agree that it's at least a bit bad?
What if he lost both games, what would have been the people's reaction?
@1Eris1 : 6pool is an allin...Maybe it's not as calculated as what alive did. But why would it be any worse?
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On February 14 2012 03:25 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 03:09 Silidons wrote:On February 14 2012 03:01 Seraphone wrote:On February 14 2012 02:52 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:On February 14 2012 02:21 Zyphen wrote:On February 14 2012 02:20 Bagi wrote:On February 14 2012 02:03 Yaki wrote:
Just pure pathetic attitude by IdrA, and he is still the most loved foreigners. I don't understand people's logic. Well its not like the US scene has many options if they want to root for the "home team".. The english-speaking foreigner community is very US-dominant, since KR has its own scene and even EU has many smaller communities for people speaking different languages. This results in a slight US bias over the board and disproportional hype surrounding top US players such as Idra and Huk, You're probably right. But Huk isn't even US, he's Canadian. So Idra may still possibly be the best US player (I just can't think of anyone else). It just shows how pathetic our scene is. Huk is a dual citizen of both Canada and the USA. We have plenty of talent in players like Illusion and qxc, but the issue I think is that in the US, there's a lot more cultural/societal emphasis on the importance of schooling and solid career paths via those degrees that really prevents a lot of people from committing. Although I'm not certain about the specifics regarding European schooling, I recall that Mana is done with their equivalent "high school" at his age, whereas US teens are only done with high school at 18. LOL at you acting like we don't place an importance on schooling in Europe. Korea places more importance on schooling than the USA and Europe by a mile and yet Koreans dominate the game. gaming is a lot more prevalent in south korean culture though. in the USA there are very few LAN centers etc where you can play games. there used to be 3 around me when i was 13-14 (6-7yrs ago) and they all closed down. there's actually not one near me and sometimes i'd like to go to one. in USA (and Europe) other sports are infinitely more popular, but it seems in Europe it's mainly futbol, but in USA we have football, baseball, basketball...that are all HUGE (not as big as futbol...but that's because far far more countries participate in futbol) Got to love when Americans A) Know nothing at all about Europe and B) Act like Europe is one country when most of us can't even speak to each other nevermind have the same culture. In England Football is the biggest sport but Rugby and Cricket are extremely popular. In France Rugby is extremely popular. In Scandinavia and Russia Handball and Ice Hockey rival football in popularity. In Spain they like Basketball. And all of Europe likes Tennis. Anyway, cultural focus on education has nothing at all to do with how good you are at Starcraft. The biggest factor is the cultural prevalence of gaming (more specifically RTS games), which has no correlation to the significance of education.
And this is just 4 countries (or well scandinavia isnt a country but anyways).
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On February 14 2012 04:10 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed.
This argument has been going around and its idiotic. Lets look at the first 6 pool without the context of the 4th game. Hypothetically Idra sees Alive likes to proxy rax, additionally there is a trend where korean T's place their first rax in weird places just to mess with the zerg. Idra decides to 6 pool, hoping to at least cause enough damage for a lead and maybe win due to the lack of a wall off. Alive played incredibly well (he really did) and it didn't work out for Idra. This cheese might not have been smart, but in this context it at least makes some sense. It could be considered comparable to Alive's cheese (though I consider it much riskier)
Now lets look at the 4th game in context. Idra just lost 6 pooling when he should have been able to make something happen. Its clear from that game that a 6 pool will do nothing to Alive. He 6 pools again. This is not comparable. This is a game throw. Alive calls Idra on it without scouting. Anyone with a brain knows this isn't an intelligent cheese, this is a temper tantrum.
Alive all-in'd to win. Idra did it because he was upset. One is far more disrespectful to fans.
The people claiming that Alive's allins are equivalent too the double 6 pool are either ignorant, in denial, or trolls. There is no other possibility.
Edit: Or, tl;dr, what tree hugger said.
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On February 14 2012 04:10 Bellygareth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 02:55 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:54 BronzeKnee wrote:On February 14 2012 02:46 1Eris1 wrote:On February 14 2012 02:34 Spuick wrote:Lets just say the difference between (hero v dimaga spoiler) + Show Spoiler +0 - 4 dimaga v her0 and 0 - 4 idra v alive is cunning. At least + Show Spoiler +didn't give up when he was down 0-2 At least + Show Spoiler + didn't open with two cheeses. So if your oppenent cheeses you, you're entitled to throw the rest of the series? Give me a freaking break. Alive exploited IdrA's weaknesses, and IdrA got mad and threw a fit. Stop defending him and actually acknowledge that he has a pitiful attitude Idra allins he throws the game. Alive allins ? It's fine. I don't agree with Idra's decisions and temper, but please can you at least be a bit impartial? They both worked pretty hard to make these 4 games suck as much as possible for the viewers. They should BOTH be ashamed.
Why should alive be ashamed, he did a strategy which has a really high win % against idra. Alive is playing to win, same cant be said about idra in thoes last 2 games.....
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Sorry for being out of the loop, but what did idra do to get all the hate?
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On February 14 2012 04:21 Mohdoo wrote:
Sorry for being out of the loop, but what did idra do to get all the hate?
Watch NASL.tv in about 30 mins i would estimate and see for your self!
+ Show Spoiler +Basicly gave up every game after losing to early game pressure/all ins, and does 2 6 pools in game 3-4 and loses. And ofcause dosent gg in any game
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EPT
