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On February 01 2012 21:27 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:25 Azzur wrote:On February 01 2012 21:24 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran. Me too he was actively able to deny two Expo's on Antiga now tell me when Zerg can do that without losing their whole army T_T GG He didn't "deny" 2 expo's... it's just that Curious allowed him to deny - one little medivac and 8 marines shouldn't really do any damage. It's just that Curious was too focused on his 1-dimensional abusive muta and counterattack strategy. he had the middle sieged up MVP SENT 1 thor a bunch of hellions and Marines to Curious's 4th BASE because he had the middle cut off. Curious even had a baneling mine go off and kill some of the marines near the ramp or something and MVP was still able to deny his 3rd and 4th with stimmed marines running back and taking cover from siege tanks like most games end in TvZ because once that Terran gets in a position where he cuts off the other Expo's its really hard to defend and break the contain. Hatcheries(Paper) vs Stimmed Marines
By the time the 4th base was denied, MVP was already gaining control - I am referring to the 3rd base denial which was 1 medivac and 8 marines killing everything. That medivac and marines even survived to do some damage in the main. Which was pretty ridiculous and only worked because Curious had all his forces on the top right doing his 1-dimensional strat.
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On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener.
It has a counter, 3 roach push into early third.
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On February 01 2012 21:21 L3g3nd_ wrote:
tasteless's gg calls are spot on this game
Tasteless commentary is very good as of late, not "just funny". I don't know, he always gives the right tactical calls.
I mean, compare that to Moletrap...
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On February 01 2012 21:29 Jehct wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:26 Roe wrote:On February 01 2012 21:25 Jehct wrote:On February 01 2012 21:22 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:20 IgnE wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. uh what? speed zerglings don't counter reactor hellion opening. Yeah, it does. 1 Spine and a few speed zerglings, what are hellions going to do? Control watch towers. So what? Zerg goes to mutas instantly and gets free muta reign then denies the third, like I pointed out. Even Queens can counter hellions. It's just not doing anything anymore, except for preventing fast 3rds from zerg, which doesn't matter because the Terran hasn't teched at all. It lets you get tanks, medivacs, stim/combat shields, secure your nat, scout potential all-ins (and have the appropriate tech to counter), deny the zerg a fast third and creep spread... all in a timely fashion. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about and it's painful to see you try to argue this. Edit: and just to emphasize how stupid you are, if the terran trades hellions for not-too-many-drones (4 hellions for 5 drones isn't worth it), the zerg usually gets ahead due to a) the nature of larva b) the importance of creep spread and c) the potency of a fast third. if it's bringing you such pain why do you continue? Huh? Seeing him argue with a bunch of people who don't make points is painful. I just wrote the initial reply that MVP, when going marine/tank/medivac, opens with reactor hellion. If he doesn't shut up after that post I'd be totally amazed.
I'm amazed you will be amazed.
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Stacking your marines nicely at the mineral line so it takes seemingly infinity lings to kill 8 marines and spreading marines out nicely so banelings dont kill them cost effectively are some the small things terran player can do to push their racial advantage against zerg further. But, what can skilled zerg players do to counter these, other than just throwing units extremely non cost effectively against them?
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On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener.
Eh, if it has no counter terrans would have a 100 % win rate against zerg.
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Curious had the right idea. MVP's drops, despite of Curious' muta, saved him.
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On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener.
Roach rushes do quite well in small maps.
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On February 01 2012 21:29 pdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:27 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 01 2012 21:25 Azzur wrote:On February 01 2012 21:24 XRaDiiX wrote:On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran. Me too he was actively able to deny two Expo's on Antiga now tell me when Zerg can do that without losing their whole army T_T GG He didn't "deny" 2 expo's... it's just that Curious allowed him to deny - one little medivac and 8 marines shouldn't really do any damage. It's just that Curious was too focused on his 1-dimensional abusive muta and counterattack strategy. he had the middle sieged up MVP SENT 1 thor a bunch of hellions and Marines to Curious's 4th BASE because he had the middle cut off. Curious even had a baneling mine go off and kill some of the marines near the ramp or something and MVP was still able to deny his 3rd and 4th with stimmed marines running back and taking cover from siege tanks like most games end in TvZ because once that Terran gets in a position where he cuts off the other Expo's its really hard to defend and break the contain. I remember reading somewhere that most Koreans think that Antiga favors the player who controls the centre of the map. And just so happens most games we watch, the Terran controls the centre.
And Terran has a huge advantage to gain control of the Center of the map ever if the Game plays out even until that point when Terran gets a PF at the 4th Center because Terran has tanks and Zerg going brood lord that early is way too risky because Broods lords in small number are really bad
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oh gom why don´t you do a http stream over port 80 so this poor bastard at work can watch the games =(
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On February 01 2012 21:30 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener. Eh, if it has no counter terrans would have a 100 % win rate against zerg.
By no counter, I'm going to assume that he means it's not an auto loss against anything if you play it properly.
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quick stick something in mvps mouth.
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On February 01 2012 21:29 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:28 Megabuster123 wrote:On February 01 2012 21:25 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:22 Badfatpanda wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. But zerg committing to 2 base muta puts them behind more than they want, and reactor hellion doesn't but you behind at all, that's why it's so common, you can use the fac to build more reactors for more barracks or immediately start tank production and switch with a rax to amp up rine production, it also begins your tech so you can go anywhere from there If you didn't make all those hellions, the upgrade for them (if you like), you would have SO MANY MORE tanks and marines, that's what's important, AND hellions don't count as "teching", it's tier 1, and you're not getting siege mode until much later. So the zerg is behind on bases, ahead in tech but terran is equal in bases but behind in tech and behind in tech-based units. Except Terran's are getting their thirds down before the zergs, and you can literally tech to anything you want after that. You don't need 50 hellions....you only have to make like 2-4 hellions. The terrans are having their third denied or attacked and losing scvs or their orbital to mutas, so I disagree. It has just happened in a lot of games we've seen tonight.
Congratulations on making huge assumptions for a build that is over a year old in this matchup and still used in atleast 80% of TvZ's on one day of games. You really have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
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uh oh he's not inhaling nerd souls.....
gumiho might upset again
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On February 01 2012 21:30 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener. Eh, if it has no counter terrans would have a 100 % win rate against zerg.
People are misunderstanding the term counter - a counter means that something that can beat it most of the time - the reactor helion opening has no counter but it doesn't mean that it's a guaranteed win.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37058 Posts
C'MON MVP!!!
Hopefully he takes this and gives GuMiho the beating back that he received earlier
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On February 01 2012 21:30 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:21 L3g3nd_ wrote:
tasteless's gg calls are spot on this game Tasteless commentary is very good as of late, not "just funny". I don't know, he always gives the right tactical calls. I mean, compare that to Moletrap...
probably a direct result of him playing more starcraft.
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On February 01 2012 21:30 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener. Eh, if it has no counter terrans would have a 100 % win rate against zerg.
Lol it's an opening bro, it's not supposed to win you the game. You just proved that people think Starcraft is just a fancy form of rock-paper-scissors, well done...
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Italy12246 Posts
On February 01 2012 21:30 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:28 Azzur wrote:
Lol at people staying there are counters to the reactor helion opening - it has no counter or else it wouldn't be the standard tvz opener. Eh, if it has no counter terrans would have a 100 % win rate against zerg.
By counter he doesn't mean something that straight up dies. It just means, it puts you at the very least even with the other guy, and at worst in a winning position. The winner isn't arbitrarly decided by build orders; it's decided by who plays their builds best.
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EPT
