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On February 01 2012 21:21 Vindicare605 wrote:If Gumiho loses he stays in Code S.
oo my bad
hyped for the mvp baby~~¨
edit: or was it? :D
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On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran.
Then you have a wrong feeling.
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On February 01 2012 21:22 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:20 IgnE wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. uh what? speed zerglings don't counter reactor hellion opening. Yeah, it does. 1 Spine and a few speed zerglings, what are hellions going to do? Control watch towers. So what? Zerg goes to mutas instantly and gets free muta reign then denies the third, like I pointed out. Even Queens can counter hellions. It's just not doing anything anymore, except for preventing fast 3rds from zerg, which doesn't matter because the Terran hasn't teched at all.
No, if you have good control they limit any creep spread and deny a third until roaches or mutas
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On February 01 2012 21:23 pdd wrote:
Mvp really seems to be a bit off... he queued his Combat Shields again and mass stimmed his marines to ward off mutas. He was one of the first guys to stim only the front few marines, but kept stimming his whole marine bunch. Also upgrades were really late, he didnt focus fire tanks on banelings..
I dunno, it just feels really weird.
Yeah, MVP is not playing 100%. Fortunately for him, he's playing the abusive 1-dimensional Curious
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On February 01 2012 21:21 Vindicare605 wrote:If Gumiho loses he stays in Code S.
No he does not. Both the 3rd and 4th place finishers in these groups (code S ro16) go into the code A ro24.
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On February 01 2012 21:22 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:21 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:20 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. i suggest you watch more TvZ. I watch every game I can. So make an actual argument please. There are pros who still win games flat out using reactor hellion
STC vs Machine yesterday IPTL.
Anyways, I think we're just arguing with a silver league or something =.=
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On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran.
Me too he was actively able to deny two Expo's on Antiga now tell me when Zerg can do that without losing their whole army T_T GG
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This was so bad again by curious, seriously wtf.5 tanks unprotected in the back ? Go counterattack the main.
We could make a meme about that.
Terran pushing ?
Counterrattack.
Terran sieging your only mining base ?
Counterattack.
Terran sending a marine to the watchtower ?
Counterattack.
edit : I forgot the best one.
A single dropship killing every single expansion I have ?
Counterattack.
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On February 01 2012 21:23 rod- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:21 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 01 2012 21:21 rod- wrote:
YES
now put gumiho back to code a If Gumiho loses he stays in Code S. oo my bad hyped for the mvp baby~~
top8 stay in code s, the 8 losers in ro16 go to like last round of code a / updown
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On February 01 2012 21:22 jjmmtt wrote:
Yeah, it does. 1 Spine and a few speed zerglings, what are hellions going to do? Control watch towers. So what? Zerg goes to mutas instantly and gets free muta reign then denies the third, like I pointed out. Even Queens can counter hellions. It's just not doing anything anymore, except for preventing fast 3rds from zerg, which doesn't matter because the Terran hasn't teched at all.
Hellions are still giving the terran map control, denying creep and make it impossible for the zerg to take a third unless he plays early roaches lol
You really don't know what you are talking about.
Hellions are not about killing drones.
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![[image loading]](http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5089/gdj8owqb.jpg)
There will be blood squirting
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I dont like mvp not winning the idea of mvp not winning the whole thing... =(
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On February 01 2012 21:22 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:20 IgnE wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. uh what? speed zerglings don't counter reactor hellion opening. Yeah, it does. 1 Spine and a few speed zerglings, what are hellions going to do? Control watch towers. So what? Zerg goes to mutas instantly and gets free muta reign then denies the third, like I pointed out. Even Queens can counter hellions. It's just not doing anything anymore, except for preventing fast 3rds from zerg, which doesn't matter because the Terran hasn't teched at all.
It lets you get tanks, medivacs, stim/combat shields, secure your nat, scout potential all-ins (and have the appropriate tech to counter), deny the zerg a fast third and creep spread... all in a timely fashion. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about and it's painful to see you try to argue this.
Edit: and just to emphasize how stupid you are, if the terran trades hellions for not-too-many-drones (4 hellions for 5 drones isn't worth it), the zerg usually gets ahead due to a) the nature of larva b) the importance of creep spread and c) the potency of a fast third.
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Why are you even arguing with someone seriously telling us that Reactor Hellion is a bad opening?
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On February 01 2012 21:23 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran. Then you have a wrong feeling.
I have to agree with the first poster, I don't think MVPs Zerg or Protoss are as good as his Terran
....
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On February 01 2012 21:21 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:20 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. i suggest you watch more TvZ. I watch every game I can. So make an actual argument please.
If you watched every TvZ, you would know why the reactored hellion works. Gives you so much map control, delays Zerg's third, delays creep spread, and allows you to transition into literally anything. You only need 2-4 hellions.
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On February 01 2012 21:24 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:23 Luppy1 wrote:
Actually, I feel that MVP won against curious in the last game entirely because he plays terran. Me too he was actively able to deny two Expo's on Antiga now tell me when Zerg can do that without losing their whole army T_T GG
He didn't "deny" 2 expo's... it's just that Curious allowed him to deny - one little medivac and 8 marines shouldn't really do much damage. It's just that Curious was too focused on his 1-dimensional abusive muta and counterattack strategy.
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On February 01 2012 21:23 jjmmtt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:22 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:21 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:20 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. i suggest you watch more TvZ. I watch every game I can. So make an actual argument please. i have no idea what to say to you cause all youre arguments are wrong LOL. if its being heavily countered right now why is it THE TvZ build? why does EVERY terran do it? Maybe because before zergs figured out how to defend it, it insta-won games. Now zergs know and it's become useless? That seems obvious.
Unless you're suiciding hellions, it does exactly what it's supposed to. Prevent fast thirds, limit creep spread and retain map control. The zerg can't take back map control until he goes muta, and if he commits to 2 base spire you're ahead in econ.
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On February 01 2012 21:22 Badfatpanda wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. But zerg committing to 2 base muta puts them behind more than they want, and reactor hellion doesn't but you behind at all, that's why it's so common, you can use the fac to build more reactors for more barracks or immediately start tank production and switch with a rax to amp up rine production, it also begins your tech so you can go anywhere from there
If you didn't make all those hellions, the upgrade for them (if you like), you would have SO MANY MORE tanks and marines, that's what's important, AND hellions don't count as "teching", it's tier 1, and you're not getting siege mode until much later. So the zerg is behind on bases, ahead in tech but terran is equal in bases but behind in tech and behind in tech-based units.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On February 01 2012 21:22 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:21 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:20 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:19 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:16 andaylin wrote:On February 01 2012 21:14 jjmmtt wrote:On February 01 2012 21:12 TheDwf wrote:On February 01 2012 21:11 jjmmtt wrote:
MVP should stop his reactor hellion crap, it's not him and it doesn't really do too much anymore. When MVP just goes marine, tank, medivac into viking, ghost, he kills everyone. Not sure if serious? I hope you know Reactor Hellion is (one of) the standard opening(s) in TvZ... It is but it's not doing anything in the pro scene, MVP isn't doing well with it and hasn't done anything significant with it. Just saying. I mean, it works for BoxeR and others but MVP's style, he dominates when he does what he normally does. not sure if serious. reactor hellion is the best opening right now. and even when people 1rax expo its immediately into reactor hellion. the amount of control it gives you and the possibility for early third is amazing. It really doesn't give you that (free) third, Zerg just hit mutas at that time and shut it all down by then. Yes, you have the orbital up but they just ruin the hellions out on the map, the third getting any scv saturation etc. Hellions take SOOO much time away from everything else. So what if it is standard? It's being countered HEAVILY by pro zergs atm, by speed zerglings mainly. i suggest you watch more TvZ. I watch every game I can. So make an actual argument please. There are pros who still win games flat out using reactor hellion Yea - if the Zerg doesn't "feel" or scout the double reactor-fac MASS hellion build, it can trash him just like that. You can be teching to mutas, you can have 3 spines up at the front, you can even have banes / roaches. But if the Terran is determined to burn you alive, he will have a looooot of hellions lol. OFcourse the double reactor-fac build is quite risky. You have to kill the zerg - otherwise the muta counter wrecks you
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EPT
