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699 Posts
TIME: Monday, Jan 23 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
EU Rebroadcast: Monday, Jan 23 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Format+ Show Spoiler +- Best of 5
-- 4 BO1 1v1s
-- If tied after all 4 games there is a BO3 Ace Match
- Players are picked before the match is started and picked based on the given map
- 7 Week Season
- Top 4 are seeded into Playoffs
Liquid (0-0) vs Quantic (0-0)
Match 1
Match 2
Match 3
Match 4
Ace Match (If Applicable)
Final Results
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Liquid 3-1
 Zenio > Shuffle
ZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio.
 LiquidHerO > Agh
Once again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO.
TLO < SaSe
I think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO.
Ret >  theognis
Ret is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him.
If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP.
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Germany3367 Posts
I think 3:1 for Liquid
Zenio > Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < Sase
Ret > theognis
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With Nani not there, Liquid most likely will win this 3:1 (Sase winning for Quantic).
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its gonna go to ace match imo, so it depends on who they put out for that
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Will these games be played tonight? Because if so Zenio and HerO will also have a huge advantage over SaSe (in the event of an ace match) due to the fact that they're in Europe. Even if they play on a neutral server, the lag to Korea will definitely hurt SaSe.
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Yeah, not seeing Quantic winning this.. Unless they can bring it to the ace match.. 3:1 Liquid
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No Destiny or Naniwa in the starting lineup? Hmm maybe they were busy or something  ... Seems like 3-1 Liquid is the safe bet based off lineups.
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If this was all-kill format Quantic would win EZ
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On January 23 2012 06:31 Slardar wrote:No Destiny or Naniwa in the starting lineup? Hmm maybe they were busy or something ... Seems like 3-1 Liquid is the safe bet based off lineups.
Probably because destiny would get owned against that lineup
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On January 23 2012 06:34 Choboo wrote:
If this was all-kill format Quantic would win EZ
I see what you did there >.>
Interesting matches, guess NaNi was busy with something, Quantic needs to get wins early otherwise it'll end up tied or go in favor of liquid, should be good matches though 
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On January 23 2012 04:03 The Final Boss wrote:
Will these games be played tonight? Because if so Zenio and HerO will also have a huge advantage over SaSe (in the event of an ace match) due to the fact that they're in Europe. Even if they play on a neutral server, the lag to Korea will definitely hurt SaSe.
Replays, so I think they played before going to Europe.
3-1 for liquid is the easiest call but Agh can surprise and ZvZ could be decided by a good baneling hit so could possibly go to an Ace match. Remember Reign vs FXO yesterday, ya surprises happen.
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Wow, Quantic really brought out their b-lineup to this match. SaSe might win but otherwise it looks like a convincing victory for Liquid.
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Xeris your thread maker guy needs to get on the ball, that's not even the right Quantic Logo. :D
![[image loading]](http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8451/teamliquidicon.png) ![[image loading]](http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/7029/vslogo.png) ![[image loading]](http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7186/quanticiconnew.png)
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No Tyler?
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TL ez. Also TLO is going to take Sase.
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TLO's not going to take Sase ..
clean sweep for TL otherwise
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3-1 seems to be the obvious result here, hopefully someone can pull off a surprise!
also, will there be vods? sry for mby noob question
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3-1 or 3-2 in favour of TL.
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Ignore the haters Joe. You can take down Zenio ezpz.
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Zenio < Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < SaSe
Ret > theognis
and then SaSe 2-0 HerO in the Ace match.
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Too bad no Destiny or NaNiwa for quantic
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theognis & sase fighting!
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I still think this is anyones ball game, I'll have to say TL will win this one though with no Naniwa. gl hf
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TBH I Think it will be 3-2 Towards quantic. Here are my predictions:
Zenio>Shuffle--> Zenio's ZvZ is top notch, and Shuffle's really does not compare in my opinion.
Hero>Agh-->Basically same thing as above but Hero instead of Zenio but Agh instead of Shuffle
TLO<Sase-->Sase is extremely versatile in all matchups, and PvZ is no exception. Expect total domination here.
Ret<TheOgnis--> This is where my pick gets a little "unorthodox" Despite Ret's extreme ZvT talent Theognis is a really good player and extremely underrated. Expect Theognis to win in a close one.
Ace Match--> Hero<Naniwa--> This is where Naniwa's amazing PvP comes into handy, destroying the last hope for Liquid, winning 2-1. However if Liquid send out Zenio expect Zenio to win 2-0 handily, especially after seeing IEM Kiev.
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On January 23 2012 07:33 wattabeast wrote:
TLO<Sase-->Sase is extremely versatile in all matchups, and ZvZ is no exception. Expect total domination here.
Wait what? SaSe played protoss last time I checked
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I still have nightmares from the last time.
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On January 23 2012 07:37 Reval wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 07:33 wattabeast wrote:
TLO<Sase-->Sase is extremely versatile in all matchups, and ZvZ is no exception. Expect total domination here.
Wait what? SaSe played protoss last time I checked
Errr you're right, sorry 'tis a Typo. I will edit that xD
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TLO will beat SaSe, you heard it here first.
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On January 23 2012 07:54 wattabeast wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 07:37 Reval wrote:On January 23 2012 07:33 wattabeast wrote:
TLO<Sase-->Sase is extremely versatile in all matchups, and ZvZ is no exception. Expect total domination here.
Wait what? SaSe played protoss last time I checked Errr you're right, sorry 'tis a Typo. I will edit that xD
Oh good for a minute there I thought one of my favourite players had race switched to zerg. I was dissapointed when TLO did cause his Zerg is so meh by comparison to his terran
On January 23 2012 07:58 Chrian wrote:
TLO will beat SaSe, you heard it here first.
As much as I like TLO I really don't see that happening. SaSe is one of the best foreigners imo
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Nani doesn't play clan wars right? Correct me if I'm wrong but Im under the impression hes openly said that he doesnt like playing clan wars because they are cross server.
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On January 23 2012 06:34 Choboo wrote:
If this was all-kill format Quantic would win EZ
So what you're saying is that in this TEAM-league, if the style that was less team oriented, and allowed for a single player to carry their entire team, that the "TEAM" (SaSe and NaNiwa, that is) would win. All-kill format is less strategy and team oriented and more based solely around the idea of who has a better fourth or fifth man. It's kind of cool to watch, but the PL format makes for a wider variety of games.
Oh, and Quantic still wouldn't win. They don't have a solid enough player to deal with Zenio. Zenio's Achilles's Heel is his ZvT, but QxG doesn't have a solid enough Terran to really exploit that. His ZvP is beastly and both SaSe and NaNiwa's PvZ are their worst match-ups. And even though he's Zerg, I don't even think that QxG has somebody who could cheese him out, just look at his stats for ZvZ in Korea. The only other person who has as good of a record is NesTea, and I think we can all agree that NesTea's ZvZ is the best in the world.
Plus, HerO is more than capable of beating either SaSe or NaNiwa. And to be honest, after you get through the two stars of each team (SaSe and NaNiwa for QxG and Zenio and HerO for Liquid), Liquid has a much deeper line-up. Ret and Sheth are both better than anybody else on QxG, and I think they could even take games off SaSe or NaNiwa.
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It's revenge time for Liquid. Liquid will probably win this.
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On January 23 2012 08:38 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 06:34 Choboo wrote:
If this was all-kill format Quantic would win EZ So what you're saying is that in this TEAM-league, if the style that was less team oriented, and allowed for a single player to carry their entire team, that the "TEAM" (SaSe and NaNiwa, that is) would win. All-kill format is less strategy and team oriented and more based solely around the idea of who has a better fourth or fifth man. It's kind of cool to watch, but the PL format makes for a wider variety of games. Oh, and Quantic still wouldn't win. They don't have a solid enough player to deal with Zenio. Zenio's Achilles's Heel is his ZvT, but QxG doesn't have a solid enough Terran to really exploit that. His ZvP is beastly and both SaSe and NaNiwa's PvZ are their worst match-ups. And even though he's Zerg, I don't even think that QxG has somebody who could cheese him out, just look at his stats for ZvZ in Korea. The only other person who has as good of a record is NesTea, and I think we can all agree that NesTea's ZvZ is the best in the world. Plus, HerO is more than capable of beating either SaSe or NaNiwa. And to be honest, after you get through the two stars of each team (SaSe and NaNiwa for QxG and Zenio and HerO for Liquid), Liquid has a much deeper line-up. Ret and Sheth are both better than anybody else on QxG, and I think they could even take games off SaSe or NaNiwa.
I'd love to share your enthusiasm and confidence but I think Quantics stands just a tad better chance, especially in the ace match. Hero can either be the most amazing player or just a "O.o" Gogo TL tho <3
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On January 23 2012 08:29 Angelbelow wrote:
Nani doesn't play clan wars right? Correct me if I'm wrong but Im under the impression hes openly said that he doesnt like playing clan wars because they are cross server.
That certainly sounds like a stance that NaNiwa would take. I can't understand why he wouldn't be playing other than the fact that his hubris gets in his own way, which is really too bad because whenever he does play he consistently produces excellent games.
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On January 23 2012 08:43 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 08:38 The Final Boss wrote:On January 23 2012 06:34 Choboo wrote:
If this was all-kill format Quantic would win EZ So what you're saying is that in this TEAM-league, if the style that was less team oriented, and allowed for a single player to carry their entire team, that the "TEAM" (SaSe and NaNiwa, that is) would win. All-kill format is less strategy and team oriented and more based solely around the idea of who has a better fourth or fifth man. It's kind of cool to watch, but the PL format makes for a wider variety of games. Oh, and Quantic still wouldn't win. They don't have a solid enough player to deal with Zenio. Zenio's Achilles's Heel is his ZvT, but QxG doesn't have a solid enough Terran to really exploit that. His ZvP is beastly and both SaSe and NaNiwa's PvZ are their worst match-ups. And even though he's Zerg, I don't even think that QxG has somebody who could cheese him out, just look at his stats for ZvZ in Korea. The only other person who has as good of a record is NesTea, and I think we can all agree that NesTea's ZvZ is the best in the world. Plus, HerO is more than capable of beating either SaSe or NaNiwa. And to be honest, after you get through the two stars of each team (SaSe and NaNiwa for QxG and Zenio and HerO for Liquid), Liquid has a much deeper line-up. Ret and Sheth are both better than anybody else on QxG, and I think they could even take games off SaSe or NaNiwa. I'd love to share your enthusiasm and confidence but I think Quantics stands just a tad better chance, especially in the ace match. Hero can either be the most amazing player or just a "O.o" Gogo TL tho <3
I'm pretty sure that if this goes to an ace-match, TL will send out Zenio. Like I said, his real weak point is his ZvT, but QxG doesn't have a Terran good enough to beat him. He might not be good enough to compete with Code S Terrans, but he's good enough for theognis or whoever else on QxG plays Terran. Plus, putting the match up to a PvP seems like a really risky decision, even if it is HerO. Zenio seems to me to be the better answer.
Even against SaSe, after the way that Zenio smashed NaNiwa earlier in IEM, I'm not sure that SaSe could handle him. The ace match will be close whoever gets sent out, but I think that Liquid will be able to win.
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On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP.
You had a good summarize on it all, we have the same predictions also. ^^
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On January 23 2012 08:44 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 08:29 Angelbelow wrote:
Nani doesn't play clan wars right? Correct me if I'm wrong but Im under the impression hes openly said that he doesnt like playing clan wars because they are cross server. That certainly sounds like a stance that NaNiwa would take. I can't understand why he wouldn't be playing other than the fact that his hubris gets in his own way, which is really too bad because whenever he does play he consistently produces excellent games.
Even though this was never publicly stated, I think part of the reason why coL had such a problem with nani was because it was difficult to get him to play in clan wars. Nani really likes quantic, so maybe they can convince him to do it. I love watching him play too and hopefully he participates in some.
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When does it start? (How many hours away?)
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Zenio Tal'Darim Altar Shuffle
Zvz is zenios strongest MU and I don't think he'll lose to an "unknown".
HerO TPW Odyssey Agh
In pvp anything can happen, especially on maps without ramps to their naturals. Hero probably has the best micro but Agh has the server advantage for a 4-gate war.
TLO Antiga Shipyard SaSe
If this is the gold base without rock version, TLO should be at a significant map advantage. But I'm not sure TLO has played enough zerg yet to abuse SaSes 1 gate expand openings on this map.
Ret TPW Ohana theognis
Ret should win this unless theognis has some special build prepared for this map.
Liquid should be the favorite, but if Sase and Agh wins they could upset in the ace match.
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Why no naniwa? Maybe he was traveling when they played the matches. Or maybe he is the ace.. hmm..
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On January 23 2012 09:03 aderum wrote:
Why no naniwa? Maybe he was traveling when they played the matches. Or maybe he is the ace.. hmm..
he had to leave for IEM. Also Apocalypse had family obligations for the new year thingy in korea so he wasn't available either
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On January 23 2012 09:06 Dark.Carnival wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 09:03 aderum wrote:
Why no naniwa? Maybe he was traveling when they played the matches. Or maybe he is the ace.. hmm.. he had to leave for IEM. Also Apocalypse had family obligations for the new year thingy in korea so he wasn't available either
wait so how does zenio play? he is in iem too?
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On January 23 2012 09:00 VoirDire wrote:
TLO Antiga Shipyard SaSe
If this is the gold base without rock version, TLO should be at a significant map advantage. But I'm not sure TLO has played enough zerg yet to abuse SaSes 1 gate expand openings on this map.
Pretty sure TLO's done lots of double gold expands vs protoss fast expands, but I don't see him winning this one anyway.
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On January 23 2012 09:35 whiteLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 09:06 Dark.Carnival wrote:On January 23 2012 09:03 aderum wrote:
Why no naniwa? Maybe he was traveling when they played the matches. Or maybe he is the ace.. hmm.. he had to leave for IEM. Also Apocalypse had family obligations for the new year thingy in korea so he wasn't available either wait so how does zenio play? he is in iem too?
he left early
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On January 23 2012 09:46 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 09:00 VoirDire wrote:
TLO Antiga Shipyard SaSe
If this is the gold base without rock version, TLO should be at a significant map advantage. But I'm not sure TLO has played enough zerg yet to abuse SaSes 1 gate expand openings on this map. Pretty sure TLO's done lots of double gold expands vs protoss fast expands, but I don't see him winning this one anyway.
The thing is that Sase doesn't do the usual forge fast expand.
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On January 23 2012 09:46 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 09:00 VoirDire wrote:
TLO Antiga Shipyard SaSe
If this is the gold base without rock version, TLO should be at a significant map advantage. But I'm not sure TLO has played enough zerg yet to abuse SaSes 1 gate expand openings on this map. Pretty sure TLO's done lots of double gold expands vs protoss fast expands, but I don't see him winning this one anyway.
Sase doesn't forge expand
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On January 23 2012 07:27 Ruscour wrote:
Zenio < Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < SaSe
Ret > theognis
and then SaSe 2-0 HerO in the Ace match.
This.
People seem to forget that shuffle also lives in Korea and had a really good run in the code a qualifiers. I think he might very well best zenio.
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United States97276 Posts
On January 23 2012 10:24 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 07:27 Ruscour wrote:
Zenio < Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < SaSe
Ret > theognis
and then SaSe 2-0 HerO in the Ace match. This. People seem to forget that shuffle also lives in Korea and had a really good run in the code a qualifiers. I think he might very well best zenio.
He has a chance but Zenio is pretty good in zvz
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On January 23 2012 10:24 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 07:27 Ruscour wrote:
Zenio < Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < SaSe
Ret > theognis
and then SaSe 2-0 HerO in the Ace match. This. People seem to forget that shuffle also lives in Korea and had a really good run in the code a qualifiers. I think he might very well best zenio.
Didn't SaSe say that he wasn't playing well in a tweet a while back?
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TLO King of the Swarm baby! jkjk but cannot wait to see him play zerg <3
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someone needs a shave and haircuit...
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Shuffle is going hatch first on Tal'darim??
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LOL! That was a short game... :p
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15hatch can't stand up to that one base bling/ling aggression from zenio
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lol Zenio showing why he has a REALLY good record ZvZ
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United States97276 Posts
Zenio is still a boss at zvz
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idk why, but when I watch Xeris cast I want to have a staring contest with the guy...
anyone feel the same..?
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United States15275 Posts
NOPE
Shuffle never stood a chance.
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really like the new maps NASL uses, adds a great touch (cough IEM)
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Hero/Zenio outclassing first 2 so far :\
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man Agh really shouldn't have split up his army there
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Agh going down was really just an illustration of what happens when a pro hits a masters player ...
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nice control and flank by Hero. Agh had the better army
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On January 23 2012 10:20 ratzp0li wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 09:46 Yonnua wrote:On January 23 2012 09:00 VoirDire wrote:
TLO Antiga Shipyard SaSe
If this is the gold base without rock version, TLO should be at a significant map advantage. But I'm not sure TLO has played enough zerg yet to abuse SaSes 1 gate expand openings on this map. Pretty sure TLO's done lots of double gold expands vs protoss fast expands, but I don't see him winning this one anyway. Sase doesn't forge expand
Really? Just saw him do it 
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United States15275 Posts
I thought Sase never FFE'd.
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since when is 3 hatch vs. FFE creative? it's pretty standard... casters obviously don't play zerg lol
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sase kind of botched that attack i think...
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United States15275 Posts
When has 4 gate pressure off FFE ever been "heavy pressure"?
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Besides the supply cap, VERY clean micro/play from TLO.
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no surprises there. shame cuz TLO actually held that first push beautifully
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it's quite amazing how quickly some players just fall apart.
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United States97276 Posts
Come on ret! Close it out
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bad decision making/scouting by TLO, didn't really know what sase was doing
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guessing TLO didn't do much scouting of his opponents base :\
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Well that was somewhat depressing, there's so much finality to force fields in those sort of situations that can really make you dislike their design, I mean obviously you shouldn't let them get into that situation in the first place, it just seems like they intended moments like what just happened to be innovative super moves and instead they're as common as pie.
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Pretty sure TLO would've won actually if he didn't botch it.
he should've engaged sase's army at another position though.
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Sase continues his reign of terror on Liquid.
In other news, force fields continue to be rage inducing.
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oh this can't be good. heavy 2 rax pressure incoming... cmon Ret...
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proxy 2 rax > ret
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ret had an advantage until the marines ran up into the main.should've probably made a few more lings
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Theognis can easily tech to banshee now.
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Wow, theognis summoning his inner BitByBit..
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Wow, theognis walked right into those banelings... that was really bad.
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wow.... he botched that all in hard.
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theognis so bad get out of the game!
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Tactical question: shouldn't Ret have been focus firing the Marines with the Spines, since the Marines are the dps?
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look i can take it back but honestly theognis had a win
the 3 seconds focusing hatch after killing everything else was a waste
then not ffing banelings well and instead walking into them. yeah...
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Ret is so clutch it hurts
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On January 23 2012 11:55 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
Tactical question: shouldn't Ret have been focus firing the Marines with the Spines, since the Marines are the dps?
technically yes but its harder than it sounds
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why doesn't quantic get rid of its lesser players? Do they even play full time?
This is painful to watch
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On January 23 2012 11:51 nath wrote: proxy 2 rax > ret
Hmmm?
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GG, good win by Liquid there!
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On January 23 2012 11:51 nath wrote: proxy 2 rax > ret
You were saying?
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i thought for sure that ret would die once he changed the path for his scouting overlord...
Great defence, and a really clutch baneling timing for the follow up push.
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Grats to Liquid on the win.
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On January 23 2012 11:56 ratzp0li wrote:
why doesn't quantic get rid of its lesser players? Do they even play full time?
This is painful to watch
Because theognis is really good. The only "lesser player" they have is flo.
Ret so good!
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On January 23 2012 11:56 ratzp0li wrote:
why doesn't quantic get rid of its lesser players? Do they even play full time?
This is painful to watch
Yes it is :\ lol...was really painful...all the matches were one sided :\ except maybe the last game...was close due to missteps
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On January 23 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:You were saying?
already posted last pagelook i can take it back but honestly theognis had a win
the 3 seconds focusing hatch after killing everything else was a waste
then not ffing banelings well and instead walking into them. yeah...
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On January 23 2012 11:55 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
Tactical question: shouldn't Ret have been focus firing the Marines with the Spines, since the Marines are the dps?
thought he did, focus them. Was a big mistake to engage the spines though, could have force his way into the main. But i liked the game, no one dared or wanted to tech really. <3 marines vs speedless lings.
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Well, that was quite a game.
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ddayum sick portrait of Sheth
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On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP.
Dude, talk about spot on lol
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On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol
Did anyone actually expect different? :p
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On January 23 2012 12:11 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol Did anyone actually expect different? :p
nope, sase is the only really good player out of all of those that can actually beat liquid players consistently.
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On January 23 2012 12:13 ratzp0li wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 12:11 1Eris1 wrote:On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol Did anyone actually expect different? :p nope, sase is the only really good player out of all of those that can actually beat liquid players consistently.
Makes you wonder why they didnt use Naniwa...
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On January 23 2012 13:14 Apollo_Shards wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 12:13 ratzp0li wrote:On January 23 2012 12:11 1Eris1 wrote:On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol Did anyone actually expect different? :p nope, sase is the only really good player out of all of those that can actually beat liquid players consistently. Makes you wonder why they didnt use Naniwa...
I'm guessing he was tired/just didn't feel like it after losing at IEM
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On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol
I'm proud of my predictions so far. I've managed to predict all the first week and have gotten the set scores of three. But honestly I think that everybody was expecting that outcome, I just put some words after it haha ^^
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On January 23 2012 13:16 LlamaNamedOsama wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 13:14 Apollo_Shards wrote:On January 23 2012 12:13 ratzp0li wrote:On January 23 2012 12:11 1Eris1 wrote:On January 23 2012 12:07 imPERSONater wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. Dude, talk about spot on lol Did anyone actually expect different? :p nope, sase is the only really good player out of all of those that can actually beat liquid players consistently. Makes you wonder why they didnt use Naniwa... I'm guessing he was tired/just didn't feel like it after losing at IEM
These games are played in advance. This was played before IEM
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Why no Naniwa or Destiny?
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On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny?
Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on.
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So that result was kinda obvious, grats to TL! =) To bad nani didnt play, but what can you do.
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On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on.
its been said a few times, naniwa had left for iem when we were playing these matches. hero/zenio didn't leave yet so they were available to play.
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Zenio > Shuffle
HerO > Agh
TLO < Sase
Ret > theognis
If Quantic had used Nani or Destiny in the Ret match Id have no doubt that the game would go to an ace match though unfortionatly they arent so that ace match is less likely to happen which would probably be a SaSe vs. Zenio but oh well. It maybe still happen since Ret hasn't been play exceptionally well lately but we'll see.
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On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on.
Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case.
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On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case.
Might have been worth getting Destiny v TLO and using Sase against someone else. With TLO switching races his mirror matchup could be quite weak and we all know how crazy ZvZ can be.
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On January 23 2012 20:18 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case. Might have been worth getting Destiny v TLO and using Sase against someone else. With TLO switching races his mirror matchup could be quite weak and we all know how crazy ZvZ can be.
This is exactly what they should have done, but I'm assuming that the NASL didn't just let Quantic choose who their players would play against. There's no point having four games with clear winners.
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On January 23 2012 20:18 Sixes wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case. Might have been worth getting Destiny v TLO and using Sase against someone else. With TLO switching races his mirror matchup could be quite weak and we all know how crazy ZvZ can be.
TLO has beaten Nerchio in ZvZ (bo3), who is near the level of Stephano, who is 7-0 against Korean zergs. I don´t think TLO is as strong as those two guys, but the fact, that he is able to beat them, shows, that he should be considered quite strong.
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Never underestimate the power of the ognis! >_<
hes quite good atm.
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With this format and if Naniwa and SaSe plays everytime they can't lose a single series right?
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On January 24 2012 00:00 Choboo wrote:
With this format and if Naniwa and SaSe plays everytime they can't lose a single series right?
Naniwa and Sase can actually lose games.
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On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case.
The only thing destiny could have done was maybe beat TLO while SaSe beats someone else. But Destiny still isn't a top foreigner, and Hero/Zenio/Ret are much better than he is.
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GJ TL. I agree with Destiny playing agaisnt TLO. It would have been an even and intersting matchup and saving SaSe against a higher tier TL player.
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On January 24 2012 00:09 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:00 Choboo wrote:
With this format and if Naniwa and SaSe plays everytime they can't lose a single series right? Naniwa and Sase can actually lose games.
Are you sure?
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On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP.
You were literally right about everything o.O How have you not won a liquibet season yet?
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On January 24 2012 01:15 mbr2321 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. You were literally right about everything o.O How have you not won a liquibet season yet?
Except for the fact that Hero was the one who got lucky vs Agh. Agh splitting his immortals lost him the game.
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On January 24 2012 01:20 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:15 mbr2321 wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. You were literally right about everything o.O How have you not won a liquibet season yet? Except for the fact that Hero was the one who got lucky vs Agh. Agh splitting his immortals lost him the game.
Well lots of people predicted 3-1, that was indeed the safe bet based on what the lineups looked like. Quantic needed an upset to force an Ace Match.
Grats Liquid! <3
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Gretorp's cohost:
Learn to control your hands; you seem to be wringing them constantly or rubbing your thighs. You look nervous as FUCK, which is understandable, but the audience can tell. Also, you seem to be afraid to look into the camera. It's okay, it won't steal your soul.
If this is a new gig, congrats :D Use it as a learning platform and keep trying!
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On January 24 2012 00:11 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case. The only thing destiny could have done was maybe beat TLO while SaSe beats someone else. But Destiny still isn't a top foreigner, and Hero/Zenio/Ret are much better than he is.
Destiny is better than theognis. Let's be honest, clearly theognis did not feel comfortable at all playing against Ret which means he probably would have done the same against Zenio. If half the line-up of the other team is so imposing to a player that they do the most ridiculous all-in, then I think it's fair to say that Destiny could have done a better job. theognis decided to do a stupid build.
Proxy 2 rax against Ret makes sense: Ret is not going to cheese some random. Plus, Ret is not known for being good against early pressure/all-ins. If theognis had expanded (maybe double expoed or something) behind his "all-in" then he would have been in a way better position and could have potentially won the game. But instead, he throws down three more barracks and does a ridiculous all-in that dies the second a baneling comes out. It's one thing to play against a style that a player is good at (for example, GoOdy likes mech or InCa likes DTs), but to completely alter your style so that it is completely focused around your opponent means that you're afraid of playing an actual game with them. Doing a quasi-all-in such as proxy 2 rax against Ret would have been a good idea. Going 5 Rax shows that theognis doesn't feel comfortable at all--and therefore shouldn't--playing Ret or a good Zerg (unless theognis's "style" is to do ridiculous and stupid cheeses).
Against a team that is so Zerg heavy, if you're going to send out a player who you know is not of the same caliber as their players, Destiny would have been the far better choice. I wonder if they were afraid of Destiny having to play a cross-server ZvZ though, which could easily be decided by a baneling.
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On January 24 2012 01:20 Letall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 01:15 mbr2321 wrote:On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. You were literally right about everything o.O How have you not won a liquibet season yet? Except for the fact that Hero was the one who got lucky vs Agh. Agh splitting his immortals lost him the game.
To be fair, I said that PvP comes down to the micro of the player. HerO microed better than Agh. Agh controlled really badly in the final engagement and while he did, HerO also controlled really well, keeping his Stalkers away from those Zealots as best he could. But really that was just the obvious prediction.
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Ugh, the commentary of TLO vs Sasa leaves a lot to be desired. They don't realize that the 4 gate zealot pressure isn't really meant to kill anything, its meant to force roaches. That pressure was a huge success, Sase was in a huge lead going into his push. It just feels like they don't have experience with Protoss.
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3-1 for TL, IMO. Interesting why NaNi isn't playing.
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On January 24 2012 03:34 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 00:11 DamageControL wrote:On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case. The only thing destiny could have done was maybe beat TLO while SaSe beats someone else. But Destiny still isn't a top foreigner, and Hero/Zenio/Ret are much better than he is. Destiny is better than theognis. Let's be honest, clearly theognis did not feel comfortable at all playing against Ret which means he probably would have done the same against Zenio. If half the line-up of the other team is so imposing to a player that they do the most ridiculous all-in, then I think it's fair to say that Destiny could have done a better job. theognis decided to do a stupid build. Proxy 2 rax against Ret makes sense: Ret is not going to cheese some random. Plus, Ret is not known for being good against early pressure/all-ins. If theognis had expanded (maybe double expoed or something) behind his "all-in" then he would have been in a way better position and could have potentially won the game. But instead, he throws down three more barracks and does a ridiculous all-in that dies the second a baneling comes out. It's one thing to play against a style that a player is good at (for example, GoOdy likes mech or InCa likes DTs), but to completely alter your style so that it is completely focused around your opponent means that you're afraid of playing an actual game with them. Doing a quasi-all-in such as proxy 2 rax against Ret would have been a good idea. Going 5 Rax shows that theognis doesn't feel comfortable at all--and therefore shouldn't--playing Ret or a good Zerg (unless theognis's "style" is to do ridiculous and stupid cheeses). Against a team that is so Zerg heavy, if you're going to send out a player who you know is not of the same caliber as their players, Destiny would have been the far better choice. I wonder if they were afraid of Destiny having to play a cross-server ZvZ though, which could easily be decided by a baneling.
Where does your confidence in Destiny come from? I'll agree ognis was uncomfortable, but I've yet to see evidence that Destiny is persuasively better. Also, keep in mind they didn't know theognis would be up against Ret; they sent him out based on the map.
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Really surprising results.
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On January 24 2012 03:44 Jacobs Ladder wrote:
Ugh, the commentary of TLO vs Sasa leaves a lot to be desired. They don't realize that the 4 gate zealot pressure isn't really meant to kill anything, its meant to force roaches. That pressure was a huge success, Sase was in a huge lead going into his push. It just feels like they don't have experience with Protoss.
Apparently they dont have deep knowledge in PvZ.
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No Naniwa?
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On January 24 2012 03:46 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2012 03:34 The Final Boss wrote:On January 24 2012 00:11 DamageControL wrote:On January 23 2012 20:07 Catatonic wrote:On January 23 2012 17:07 blade55555 wrote:On January 23 2012 16:50 ceaRshaf wrote:
Why no Naniwa or Destiny? Nobody knows why not naniwa, destiny is obvious why he wasn't put on. Whats this obvious reason then? He's much improved since his visit to Korea an is doing alot better now then ever before. So I think your inferring that Destiny is trash is false and you should go back and rethink it seeing as how you're if thats the case. The only thing destiny could have done was maybe beat TLO while SaSe beats someone else. But Destiny still isn't a top foreigner, and Hero/Zenio/Ret are much better than he is. Destiny is better than theognis. Let's be honest, clearly theognis did not feel comfortable at all playing against Ret which means he probably would have done the same against Zenio. If half the line-up of the other team is so imposing to a player that they do the most ridiculous all-in, then I think it's fair to say that Destiny could have done a better job. theognis decided to do a stupid build. Proxy 2 rax against Ret makes sense: Ret is not going to cheese some random. Plus, Ret is not known for being good against early pressure/all-ins. If theognis had expanded (maybe double expoed or something) behind his "all-in" then he would have been in a way better position and could have potentially won the game. But instead, he throws down three more barracks and does a ridiculous all-in that dies the second a baneling comes out. It's one thing to play against a style that a player is good at (for example, GoOdy likes mech or InCa likes DTs), but to completely alter your style so that it is completely focused around your opponent means that you're afraid of playing an actual game with them. Doing a quasi-all-in such as proxy 2 rax against Ret would have been a good idea. Going 5 Rax shows that theognis doesn't feel comfortable at all--and therefore shouldn't--playing Ret or a good Zerg (unless theognis's "style" is to do ridiculous and stupid cheeses). Against a team that is so Zerg heavy, if you're going to send out a player who you know is not of the same caliber as their players, Destiny would have been the far better choice. I wonder if they were afraid of Destiny having to play a cross-server ZvZ though, which could easily be decided by a baneling. Where does your confidence in Destiny come from? I'll agree ognis was uncomfortable, but I've yet to see evidence that Destiny is persuasively better. Also, keep in mind they didn't know theognis would be up against Ret; they sent him out based on the map.
Recently he beat KiLLeR 2-0 and lost to viOLet 2-3. Both of those are pretty solid results that don't really reflect upon his career statistics of ZvZ. He lost to Ret 0-2 at HSC4, but I definitely think that Destiny is a more solid choice than Ret, plus he's been in Korea and has been improving a great deal.
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Good job by liquid !
It would be awsome if the playoff of NASTL were played on the live event.
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On January 24 2012 01:15 mbr2321 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:45 The Final Boss wrote:Liquid 3-1 Zenio > ShuffleZvZ is a pretty anybody-can-win sort of match-up, but not when one of those players is Zenio. He has some of the best ZvZ in the world and I don't see Shuffle standing much of a chance. That being said, since it is ZvZ Bo1 anything could happen, but let's be honest, it probably won't. I think Tal'Darim Altar is so big of a map that it's harder for cheeses to work, and I don't see how Shuffle can stand much of a chance against a S-Class ZvZer like Zenio. LiquidHerO > AghOnce again, even if PvP is a match-up that produces more build order wins than other match-ups, it is also highly reliant on the micro of the player. Agh is going to need to get lucky to beat HerO. TLO < SaSeI think that from QxG's standpoint, it would have been best to get SaSe matched up against either Ret or one of the Koreans, because he's the one with the best shot, and then they might be able to win it 3-2 with an ace match. TLO is the weakest player that Liquid is sending out, but he's still pretty good. I don't think that with him switching races and SaSe being such a baller that he has a great chance, but TLO's wacky style might favor the Bo1 setting. Regardless, SaSe is a beast, and should be able to beat TLO. Ret > theognisRet is one of the best foreigners, but he certainly has his weak points. theognis's best chance will certainly be cheesing or dispatching Ret early game, but after Ret starts rolling I don't see theognis being able to stop him. If it gets to the ace match (which is always a possibility with the Bo1 format) then I figure Zenio vs SaSe with Zenio winning it. I would assume that Liquid knows that QxG will use SaSe and rather then risking a PvP, Zenio (who just crushed NaNiwa at IEM) can beat SaSe in a ZvP. You were literally right about everything o.O How have you not won a liquibet season yet?
Seriously no offence, but anyone who didn't predict like this is just dumb, anyone with half a brain and that have followed the scene at least a few weeks would have predicted this outcome. It would be a HUGE upset if any of the games didn't go like this and then we would also have like 50k+ liquidbet winners every season according to your logics..
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On January 24 2012 04:18 The Final Boss wrote:
He lost to Ret 0-2 at HSC4, but I definitely think that Destiny is a more solid choice than Ret, plus he's been in Korea and has been improving a great deal.
I could not disagree more.
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Ret is a really scary opponent in standard games, and yeah, he rolled over Destiny just as easily as he did theognis. One of Quantic's protoss would have been a better match for him, they are good at rushing, micro and harassment, stuff Ret is known to die to.
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