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[$1000] BO31 KiWiKaKi vs CatZ - Page 21

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 Next All
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
January 23 2012 04:39 GMT
#401
On January 23 2012 13:28 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:05 RooStaR wrote:
On January 23 2012 11:51 Mohdoo wrote:
Poor Catz is so mad about this, lol. First QXC now Kiwi. Cmon, Gowser :/


He really needs to start playing people like desrow, destiny, drewbie and iNcontrol.

On January 23 2012 11:48 ReignFayth wrote:
looks like my 2:1 odds were accurate


For your odds to be accurate Catz would have to win the best of 31 33% of the time. If Catz plays 2 more matchups against kiwi and the ending score was 2 matches to 1 in kiwi's favor then you would be accurate. They only played one best of 31 matchup so you can not say whether or not your odds were accurate.

Catz won ~33% of the games in this one matchup, but that has nothing to do with the odds you gave. Your odds were on the matchup not the individual games.

its exactly the same thing on the long run though.....

ye but hes saying winning 2/3 games != winning 2/3 series
the throws never bothered me anyway
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
January 23 2012 04:40 GMT
#402
On January 23 2012 13:39 peidongyang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:28 ReignFayth wrote:
On January 23 2012 13:05 RooStaR wrote:
On January 23 2012 11:51 Mohdoo wrote:
Poor Catz is so mad about this, lol. First QXC now Kiwi. Cmon, Gowser :/


He really needs to start playing people like desrow, destiny, drewbie and iNcontrol.

On January 23 2012 11:48 ReignFayth wrote:
looks like my 2:1 odds were accurate


For your odds to be accurate Catz would have to win the best of 31 33% of the time. If Catz plays 2 more matchups against kiwi and the ending score was 2 matches to 1 in kiwi's favor then you would be accurate. They only played one best of 31 matchup so you can not say whether or not your odds were accurate.

Catz won ~33% of the games in this one matchup, but that has nothing to do with the odds you gave. Your odds were on the matchup not the individual games.

its exactly the same thing on the long run though.....

ye but hes saying winning 2/3 games != winning 2/3 series

it is exactly the same when u lay down odds
Ruscour
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
5233 Posts
January 23 2012 04:43 GMT
#403
Expensive practice CatZ
RooStaR
Profile Joined January 2011
United States58 Posts
January 23 2012 04:51 GMT
#404
On January 23 2012 13:28 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:05 RooStaR wrote:
On January 23 2012 11:51 Mohdoo wrote:
Poor Catz is so mad about this, lol. First QXC now Kiwi. Cmon, Gowser :/


He really needs to start playing people like desrow, destiny, drewbie and iNcontrol.

On January 23 2012 11:48 ReignFayth wrote:
looks like my 2:1 odds were accurate


For your odds to be accurate Catz would have to win the best of 31 33% of the time. If Catz plays 2 more matchups against kiwi and the ending score was 2 matches to 1 in kiwi's favor then you would be accurate. They only played one best of 31 matchup so you can not say whether or not your odds were accurate.

Catz won ~33% of the games in this one matchup, but that has nothing to do with the odds you gave. Your odds were on the matchup not the individual games.

its exactly the same thing on the long run though.....


No it's not the same. Catz could win 33% of the games while winning non of the best of 31s.

If they played 10 best of 31 matches and the score was the same every time, that would mean that Kiwi won all ten matchups. Your odds of 2-1 would be way off then. Catz would actually have to win a third of the matchups for your odds to correct.

Your odds were given on the entire matchup not the individual games. It is a HUGE difference.

Dubsy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada186 Posts
January 23 2012 05:29 GMT
#405
On January 23 2012 13:28 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:05 RooStaR wrote:
On January 23 2012 11:51 Mohdoo wrote:
Poor Catz is so mad about this, lol. First QXC now Kiwi. Cmon, Gowser :/


He really needs to start playing people like desrow, destiny, drewbie and iNcontrol.

On January 23 2012 11:48 ReignFayth wrote:
looks like my 2:1 odds were accurate


For your odds to be accurate Catz would have to win the best of 31 33% of the time. If Catz plays 2 more matchups against kiwi and the ending score was 2 matches to 1 in kiwi's favor then you would be accurate. They only played one best of 31 matchup so you can not say whether or not your odds were accurate.

Catz won ~33% of the games in this one matchup, but that has nothing to do with the odds you gave. Your odds were on the matchup not the individual games.

its exactly the same thing on the long run though.....


Tis true. That's like saying a college basketball team loses 86-43 and saying the game should be handicapped at 2:1.

They scored 33% of the points. Sure as fuck doesn't mean they'll win 33% of the time.
With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!"
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
January 23 2012 05:42 GMT
#406
ok I'll stop discussing gambling with sc players :D
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 23 2012 05:47 GMT
#407
On January 23 2012 13:31 ReignFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:12 mindspike wrote:
What was score vs TT1?

3-1 TT1 wins


So Catz lost $1,000 in one day?
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
January 23 2012 05:47 GMT
#408
On January 23 2012 14:47 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2012 13:31 ReignFayth wrote:
On January 23 2012 13:12 mindspike wrote:
What was score vs TT1?

3-1 TT1 wins


So Catz lost $1,000 in one day?

$1550
Dubsy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada186 Posts
January 23 2012 05:49 GMT
#409
On January 23 2012 14:42 ReignFayth wrote:
ok I'll stop discussing gambling with sc players :D


I think I'd really like to do some capping against you

I just think thats one of the most hilarious brags about a line I've ever seen haha. You totally whiffed on it and then claim you nailed it and pretend like you have an explanation. But hey if you wanna be a successful gambler without knowledge of basic math or stats, more power to you.

Maybe it is best you don't discuss gambling with SC players. Some of them are pretty sharp
With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!"
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 06:09:53
January 23 2012 05:57 GMT
#410
if catz is capable of winning 1 game out of 3, there is no telling when these happens

if catz wins 16 games in a row, he wins 1 serie, then he may lose 32 games in a row and the series would be at 2-1 with the exact same ratio
Dubsy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada186 Posts
January 23 2012 06:05 GMT
#411
Come on.

Come on now... There is no way you think that's serious statistics... The odds of Catz winning 16 in a row (I'm assuming you mean he's capable of winning 1 out of 3, not 1 out of 2 like you said) is: 1.977E-8. That's like .000002% or something. That's not very high.
With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!"
Jacobs Ladder
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1705 Posts
January 23 2012 06:06 GMT
#412
On January 23 2012 14:42 ReignFayth wrote:
ok I'll stop discussing gambling with sc players :D

Well, its not like you know about gambling or anything .
westhebest
Profile Joined December 2010
United States6 Posts
January 23 2012 06:10 GMT
#413
Not sure if this helps to clarify things but I think the argument is winning a game /= winning a series.

Let's assume that Catz's probability of winning a game is 1/3. So if you offered 2:1 odds for those that bet on Catz, you'll break even.
Let's use a BO3 as an example.

W W W - 1/27
W W L - 2/27
W L W - 2/27
L W W - 2/27
W L L - 4/27
L W L - 4/27
L L W - 4/27
L L L - 8/27

To clarify, if he wins the first two games, he wins the series regardless of what happens in the third game (WWW+WWL = 1/9 = 1/3*1/3). I just stated all 8 possibilities to make it easier to see

Adding up the top 4 situations where Catz wins the BO3, i.e. wins 2 games, you get 7/27 ~25.9%. Adding up the bottom 4 where Kiwi wins BO3, you get 20/27 ~74.1%.

Dunno if I explained this right. Please someone verify or correct me.
Tanukki
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland579 Posts
January 23 2012 06:18 GMT
#414
That reasoning looks correct. I think CatZ would play better in a Bo3 though. Some of the games in this series he seemed to throw because of sloppy cheesing and other stuff he wouldn't try in a Bo3.
Dubsy
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada186 Posts
January 23 2012 06:26 GMT
#415
That seems fine but I didn't look too too close. I chuckled because your inequality sign looks like a sideways happy face.

That means Kiwi wins a Bo3 ~74% of the time. ie your EV on a $100 wager becomes: $50*.74 + ($100)*.26 = $11

Betting $50 on Catz: $100*.26 + ($50*.74) = ($11).

A good handicap gets the EV's as close to zero as possible.

A longer series reduces variance and increases the likelihood Kiwi wins which makes a 2:1 line even worse every time the series is extended. And 31 is a long ass series. You can see this intuitively because although he only has a 26% to win a Bo3, he has a 33% chance of winning a Bo1 (obviously). The longer it is the more skewed it gets.
With a right-left, right-left you're toothless, And then you say "Goddamn they ruthless!"
nGBeast
Profile Joined July 2010
United States914 Posts
January 23 2012 06:46 GMT
#416
so what was the final score
jtbem
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada1404 Posts
January 23 2012 06:59 GMT
#417
final score 16-8
aka Sowelulol
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 07:15:45
January 23 2012 07:14 GMT
#418
fayth stick to poker!!!

if catz is 1:2 odds to win on a single game (as the result shows) then his odds to win a bo31 are really, really horrible and nothing close to 1:2. would be fun to run this by some smart math people.
Administrator
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-23 07:30:53
January 23 2012 07:28 GMT
#419
it's just a lot less variance isn't it

so what we would have to run it as in 33% x 33% x 33% etc.? or then that would only be in a row
Bandino
Profile Joined August 2010
United States342 Posts
January 23 2012 07:28 GMT
#420
On January 23 2012 16:14 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
fayth stick to poker!!!

if catz is 1:2 odds to win on a single game (as the result shows) then his odds to win a bo31 are really, really horrible and nothing close to 1:2. would be fun to run this by some smart math people.


I think it is just simple statistics. He has a 33% chance to win every match, and needs to win at least 16 times to win a bo31. You just to a cumulative binomial condition and 31 for the number of trials, greater than or equal to 16 for the number of successes and you get 2.456%. I could be wrong though any other suggestions?
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