Welcome to the Korean StarCraft II League Daily! The KSL is sponsored by own3d.tv and can be viewed as an European event series that features the Korean Pro-Teams. The KSL is a series of daily matches between top Korean players from the teams Prime, oGs, NSHoSeo, MvP, ZeNEX, StarTale, Incredible Miracle, and FXOpen. After the booming start at the end of 2011, the KSL is proud to announce the 2012 KSL Opening Ceremonies, starting Monday, December 26th. Instead of the regularly scheduled Individual Matches, the KSL will be bringing you Best of 11 Team Matches for the entire week!
MvP 6:2 oGs sC < TheStC finale > TheStC finale > JookTo finale > SuperNoVa finale > fOrGG finale < MC Keen > MC Keen > NaDa
Matches will be broadcast by a variety of commentators including KatuStarcraft (English), Raelcun & Unstable [via the FXOpen Stream] (English), GoodGameRU (Russian) , sc2tv.ru (Russian) as well as a German commentator.
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Unfortunately, I think sC's level has decreased a lot, floating on gaz, being supply blocked So bad for him that he had to go to hospital, but he will recover and comeback stronger
On January 02 2012 22:15 SkullZ9 wrote: Unfortunately, I think sC's level has decreased a lot, floating on gaz, being supply blocked So bad for him that he had to go to hospital, but he will recover and comeback stronger
Just a patchy start to the game. He's already back to top 5 on KR GM so I don't think his level has dropped too much lol =p
A lot of it is from KSL and versus weaker Protoss players though, while Genius has a Code S-worthy level PvT. Not to mention his theStC's TvP is probably the weakest relative to his other matchups.
On January 02 2012 22:28 BobMcJohnson wrote: Are Hero/Jinro/Zenio allowed to play for oGs btw?
Doubt it, and even if they were I suspect oGs would prefer to send out their own players. The KSL is a lot about giving teams more exposure, particularly the less well known members. Liquid' players already get a shitton of exposure, so there would be no need to send them out.
On January 02 2012 22:29 MCDayC wrote: Finale keeps getting sent out, strange. MVP seems to think they can roll this ezpz.
They can send out 6 players. finale and Monster are probably the stronger player (after the Genius, DRG, sC, Keen), which is why they get sent out to see if they can take out some good players early on.
A lot of it is from KSL and versus weaker Protoss players though, while Genius has a Code S-worthy level PvT. Not to mention his theStC's TvP is probably the weakest relative to his other matchups.
A lot of it is from KSL and versus weaker Protoss players though, while Genius has a Code S-worthy level PvT. Not to mention his theStC's TvP is probably the weakest relative to his other matchups.
I won't claim to know much about theStC so I'm more than willing to accept you are correct, but the games that i can recall of his TvP were pretty beastly. His late game micro is so strong, I've seen him dismantle the protoss deathball on several occasions where many players crumble.
stc should have continued making tanks on a choke/narrow map like this. Bio ball gonig to get murdered in the longer game anyway if toss doesnt screw up.
On January 02 2012 22:38 4Servy wrote: stc should have continued making tanks on a choke/narrow map like this. Bio ball gonig to get murdered in the longer game anyway if toss doesnt screw up.
A pretty mediocre game from both sides. That just looked exactly like what happens when you go Marine/Tank, don't do anything with it, transition slowly and then let Protoss be really greedy with expansions and tech,
This map is only 15 15 in TvP, but yesterday we saw the exact same game : T passively waiting for his death while they both macro their max supply max tech army.
This map is crazy one-sided for standard PvT. Need more sick builds like Jjakji's when he played Oz here; watching the shitty ball v ball in the middle > someone dies is boring =(
Kinda the problem with the KSL I spose: it's so low profile that really special builds won't be used =(
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
On January 02 2012 22:42 MCDayC wrote: CBTS needs to be removed from the map pool. It's creates terrible games, it was a nice experiment, but it failed.
Indeed it's just being used to snipe people in a very easy way.
Yeah its just used to let the protoss win in this map. I don't think we need to remove it though, just need to make the 3rd wider as to punish greedy protosses who go for fast 3rds and turtles to 200/200
On January 02 2012 22:47 poorcloud wrote: Yeah its just used to let the protoss win in this map. I don't think we need to remove it though, just need to make the 3rd wider as to punish greedy protosses who go for fast 3rds and turtles to 200/200
Agreed, I think the map has more potential but it's way too easy to get 3 bases that 1-2 base plays are actually lesser strategies. Opening up the 3rd (or "front natural") I think would do a tonne of good for the map.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
I don't think you can blame late-game map imbalance on theStc's loss there. He went for a 2-base push against a quick third, decided to turn around, then took his own third probably almost 10 minutes after Finale did. He was way behind by the time it got to the "late-game".
Why didnt he get the hydra den down earlier? He did not need the spire since colossus were never going to come that early (all that gas into sentries). Ten hydras would of let him hold that.
On January 02 2012 23:00 weiliem wrote: Y did jookto pull back those roaches there inside the ff?? he took so much dmg there without doing any dmg at all
That was bad, but he'd already lost by that point. He had overdroned, got supply blocked twice and had too many unupgraded Roaches against a Sentry/Stalker/Immortal composition.
On January 02 2012 23:00 Amornthep wrote: Well executed all-in by Finale.
What all-in? Finale pressured and jookToo just fell apart with poor positioning and unit choices trying to go for spire and hydras at the same time. Stop complaining everything is cheeses and all-in.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
Are you sure you're getting the person right? I've never seen Top play a lot of TvP, much less get praised for it. His TLPD says he's 18-19 in TvP and hasn't beaten a single notable Protoss who has good PvT.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
Are you sure you're getting the person right? I've never seen Top play TvP, much less get praised for it. His TLPD says he's 18-19 in TvP and hasn't beaten a single notable Protoss who has good PvT.
TOP's TvP is quite bad yes, he lost to GatoreD back at IEM, and has never done quite well in the matchup tbh.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
Are you sure you're getting the person right? I've never seen Top play TvP, much less get praised for it. His TLPD says he's 18-19 in TvP and hasn't beaten a single notable Protoss who has good PvT.
He hammered MC 4-0 in a huge upset back when MC looked almost untouchable in PvT last christmas...but yeah, generally speaking (and especially in relevant terms) his TvP isn't remotely great.
On January 02 2012 23:01 hzflank wrote: Why didnt he get the hydra den down earlier? He did not need the spire since colossus were never going to come that early (all that gas into sentries). Ten hydras would of let him hold that.
I presume the plan was to transition into mutas after scouting robo tech, they're kind of awesome. He didn't bank on the immortal push though and it hit at a nice timing. He dropped the hydra den as soon as he realised what was going on but it obviously wasn't in time.
On January 02 2012 23:00 Amornthep wrote: Well executed all-in by Finale.
What all-in? Finale pressured and jookToo just fell apart with poor positioning and unit choices trying to go for spire and hydras at the same time. Stop complaining everything is cheeses and all-in.
That was pretty all-in to be honest. He stopped making probes for a long time and had very little tech (only a bare robo and a ton of gates), all on 2 bases with no intention of taking a third.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
Are you sure you're getting the person right? I've never seen Top play TvP, much less get praised for it. His TLPD says he's 18-19 in TvP and hasn't beaten a single notable Protoss who has good PvT.
He hammered MC 4-0 in a huge upset back when MC looked almost untouchable in PvT last christmas...but yeah, generally speaking (and especially in relevant terms) his TvP isn't remotely great.
Yeah, I think that beating was more because they are in the same team house and TOP completely mindfucked MC. His TvP since then has always looked mediocre, probably because it relies so much on unit control.
On January 02 2012 23:00 Amornthep wrote: Well executed all-in by Finale.
What all-in? Finale pressured and jookToo just fell apart with poor positioning and unit choices trying to go for spire and hydras at the same time. Stop complaining everything is cheeses and all-in.
That was pretty all-in to be honest. He stopped making probes for a long time and had very little tech (only a bare robo and a ton of gates), all on 2 bases with no intention of taking a third.
As a protoss player it looked pretty standard to me. If you FFE then you have to cut probes to add gateways when warpgate is on its way (unless you stay on only 1 gas), and there is no point in making more than 46 probes until after you do some damage,as you cant be sure when you will take your third on a small map.
finale mechanics and macro is really bad for a relatively pro player, he may have good decision making but i just feel its unfair that he can beat players like Stc/Supernova
On January 02 2012 23:19 poorcloud wrote: finale mechanics and macro is really bad for a relatively pro player, he may have good decision making but i just feel its unfair that he can beat players like Stc/Supernova
Why should good macro and poor decision-making be better than the opposite? I don't see how that's unfair in the slightest.
Hmm...i actually don't think Finale is good at all... There was a lot of luck on his part, bad play from his opponents, and as idra would say killing people with descisions which make no sense when you are playing someone good.
Macro is really bad as well. Playing totally risky.
1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
On January 02 2012 23:21 Gotmog wrote: Hmm...i actually don't think Finale is good at all... There was a lot of luck on his part, bad play from his opponents, and as idra would say killing people with descisions which make no sense when you are playing someone good.
Macro is really bad as well. Playing totally risky.
So you say he wins because he's a baller? It's fine to me, pros have to adapt and maybe it will open some gaps for new strategies.
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It was a reaper > FE build and killed 4 probes and a sentry, I do however agree with your assessment
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It's really good in following up with a timing attack, like ghost or tank marine. No idea why he did not do the tank marine though, which he is so familiar with and it's exceptionally good on antiga.
Edit: Oh it was a reaper expand, did not pay attention to the early game.
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It was a reaper > FE build and killed 4 probes and a sentry, I do however agree with your assessment
He actually got the Reaper after his expansion, seeing as he didn't have any gas when he put the CC down.
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It was a reaper > FE build and killed 4 probes and a sentry, I do however agree with your assessment
You get behind in what? What a joke, the only build that gains an edge over 1 rax FE is Nexus first, and that one is really punishable if you scout it in time.
i don't like how people assume fOrGG is going to do timing attacks. Thats his old style and he said he will only revert to his timing attack style once he fully understands sc2. Most of his builds right now is really just for testing his mechanics and just general standard play.
On January 02 2012 23:21 Gotmog wrote: Hmm...i actually don't think Finale is good at all... There was a lot of luck on his part, bad play from his opponents, and as idra would say killing people with descisions which make no sense when you are playing someone good.
Macro is really bad as well. Playing totally risky.
On January 02 2012 23:28 poorcloud wrote: i don't like how people assume fOrGG is going to do timing attacks. Thats his old style and he said he will only revert to his timing attack style once he fully understands sc2. Most of his builds right now is really just for testing his mechanics and just general standard play.
On January 02 2012 23:21 Gotmog wrote: Hmm...i actually don't think Finale is good at all... There was a lot of luck on his part, bad play from his opponents, and as idra would say killing people with descisions which make no sense when you are playing someone good.
Macro is really bad as well. Playing totally risky.
On January 02 2012 22:43 Meiffeltower wrote: TOP ? jookto ?
TOP's bad at TvP. His micro is battle is terrible (as seen on AoL earlier), which doesn't help him much when it comes to TvP.
oGs might send NaDa out, considering his TvP performance during his U&D matches. Perhaps they might send out Luvsic, but I don't see them sending out InCa unless it's Genius or finale beats two more players.
TOP's best matchup has ALWAYS been TvP and TvT, and he created a number of builds that are still popular because he's so good at the matchup, recently his TvT has been inflated on liquipedia because he's been playing so much TvT recently and having to practice the matchup most.
Are you sure you're getting the person right? I've never seen Top play a lot of TvP, much less get praised for it. His TLPD says he's 18-19 in TvP and hasn't beaten a single notable Protoss who has good PvT.
Yes, I'm sure I'm thinking of the right person, I've been following him for a long time now, he lost to gatored? his pvt took out many koreans and is VERY underrated atm. His TLPD says his TvP is 17-12 against koreans and look at the names hes playing against...idk what else to say lol
Really glad to see fOrGG out hopefully he does well!
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It was a reaper > FE build and killed 4 probes and a sentry, I do however agree with your assessment
You get behind in what? What a joke, the only build that gains an edge over 1 rax FE is Nexus first, and that one is really punishable if you scout it in time.
1 Rax FE into standard play is not a very good build it gets your tech going way too slow.
On January 02 2012 23:22 s3rp wrote: 1 Rax-Gasless FE is such an outdated build in TvP in my mind. If the opponent opens greedy there's nothing you can do about that and you get way behind.
It was a reaper > FE build and killed 4 probes and a sentry, I do however agree with your assessment
You get behind in what? What a joke, the only build that gains an edge over 1 rax FE is Nexus first, and that one is really punishable if you scout it in time.
1 Rax FE into standard play is not a very good build it gets your tech going way too slow.
Then why is it the most common TvP opener? It's pretty much that, marine reaper conc +2 marauder FE, a 1/1/1 open, or gasless into 2 base 1/1/1. With the clear favorite a gasless 1 rax FE. The statement that it puts you behind in a macro game is ridiculous, what does every P nexus first? it's not even that much of an advantage lol.
On January 02 2012 23:42 Jono7272 wrote: ForGG's control is too good..
You mean the bit where he runs through storms for more damage?=/
Finale doesn't play like most Protoss, he didn't build his Nexus at his natural and never had his HT with his army (instead baited into HTs, which isnt cost effective, but Finale was already ahead), which helped him as it threw Fin off.
the engineering bay block actually did more harm than good when forGG failed to scout the ninja expo.... it allowed finale to pincer his army when he had his killer timing push
On January 02 2012 23:43 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: well so much for ForGG. Finale even wiped his ass with him too :p
honestly it was mainly by luck. ForGG's build was tailored to pushing the nat...which Finale didn't even have lol. although I think ForGG's decision making is letting his mechanics down.
On January 02 2012 23:37 freerolll wrote: tell me again finale is not good !
He is not good...
Did you see that siege + 3 bunkers proving to be useless, because any good Protoss would've had a base there rofl.
So.....he's bad because he put his Nexus away from the cliff and nullified part of fOrGG's build?
......what?
Read what else i said...
All I see if you saying he's bad for playing risky and getting away with it, when half of professional Starcraft is getting away with as many risks as possible.
His usage of HTs was interesting, more of defensive storms instead. He tried to force good engagements through multi-pronged attacks. If he somehow end up fighting a bigger army, he will retreat using storms for cover.
pff if ForGG hadnt blocked expo with e-bay there hadn`t been a way for him to lose. He outplayed finale hard but got massive build disadvantage when expo wasnt there and he had marine-tank-banshee tech without stim or place to push. Still he made game out of it being 1 base down most of game.
If Finale had put his Nexus there because he knew a Seige Tank push was coming and didn't want his natural seiged, that would be skill. But he didn't, he put his Nexus there because fOrGG blocked it with an engi bay, and he had to put his natural down somewhere.
Everything from him I've seen so far has been very risky, very counterable and very greedy. But it has also been very clutch, which is why he's doing so well.
On January 02 2012 23:44 Plexa wrote: Ridiculous how close that was given the massive advantage finale had
how was that close? lol? it was only close because he had 6 full energy templar at home. He just made a bunch of zealots, brought his ht's, and a moved for round 2. No way forGG could keep up with resources and production.
On January 02 2012 23:46 CEPEHDREI wrote: finale already surprised us 2-3 months ago. does somebody know where that was? IPL? GSTL? i just cant remember.
You aren't thinking MVPTails are you? He generated some press about that time ago.
Finale on the other hand has had very mediocre results until...well today...
On January 02 2012 23:52 Pr0wler wrote: There goes the all kill I guess :D I wonder who will be the last guy for oGs... NaDa ?? TOP ?? Both will loose vs DRG for sure.
Inca and Luvsic would be acceptable choices also, though most likely they'll go Nada or TOP, DRG or not.
On January 02 2012 23:52 blacklist_member wrote: lol i went afk for 2 mins and MC won a game?
Finale coinflipped the 2x proxy gate and MC scouted it. Not a bad choice at this stage, but on the other hand at this stage you have to expect your opponent to be extra cautious.
On January 02 2012 23:47 Alvis wrote: Why not Inca?
Because they are down 1-4 so they need someone capable to win multiple matches, not only PvP :>
It is BO11 and oGs should save MC until the last moment
They still have NaDa yo!!!
Well it goes beg the question who is coming out next if MC loses...
Nada? Top? Cezanne? Ensare?
I dno =/ =/
oGs just aren't as good as they used to be.
I don't think they were ever good at teamleagues tbh. They have a lot of above average players but nobody truly excellent imo
They just haven't picked up or discovered any talent recently.. (other than forgg lol) slayers, mvp, nhs etc have all had new breakout players where as ogs hasn't.
On January 02 2012 23:47 Alvis wrote: Why not Inca?
Because they are down 1-4 so they need someone capable to win multiple matches, not only PvP :>
It is BO11 and oGs should save MC until the last moment
They still have NaDa yo!!!
Well it goes beg the question who is coming out next if MC loses...
Nada? Top? Cezanne? Ensare?
I dno =/ =/
oGs just aren't as good as they used to be.
I don't think they were ever good at teamleagues tbh. They have a lot of above average players but nobody truly excellent imo
They just haven't picked up or discovered any talent recently.. (other than forgg lol) slayers, mvp, nhs etc have all had new breakout players where as ogs hasn't.
Yea, definitely seems that way. Also HerO became an absolute beast right after he left oGs
Well though I like MC, looks pretty certain MVP moves to finals. That's more exciting to me, because MVP has more exciting fresh players whereas ogs seems to have largely stagnated =/
On January 02 2012 23:47 Alvis wrote: Why not Inca?
Because they are down 1-4 so they need someone capable to win multiple matches, not only PvP :>
It is BO11 and oGs should save MC until the last moment
They still have NaDa yo!!!
Well it goes beg the question who is coming out next if MC loses...
Nada? Top? Cezanne? Ensare?
I dno =/ =/
oGs just aren't as good as they used to be.
I don't think they were ever good at teamleagues tbh. They have a lot of above average players but nobody truly excellent imo
They just haven't picked up or discovered any talent recently.. (other than forgg lol) slayers, mvp, nhs etc have all had new breakout players where as ogs hasn't.
Yea, definitely seems that way. Also HerO became an absolute beast right after he left oGs
On January 03 2012 00:02 SupLilSon wrote: Yea, definitely seems that way. Also HerO became an absolute beast right after he left oGs
I'm not sure about that. I think he just got more exposure and could visit foreign tournaments more often.
Imagine if he was still in oGs: all we'd ever see of him would be GSL, and let's be honest his play in GSL has been pretty abysmal.
Can't blame him though. I don't think Finale would do really well in GSL either.
I find Protoss to be the least consistent race because during most Protoss wins as a spectator I see so many times when they're taking the kind of risks where the enemy terran could've just A-moved and killed them at many points during the game.
MC has been so successful mainly because he's good at using 2 base all-ins.
Oh, as an aside: TvP still looks like a really messy matchup. Just not as fun to watch as TvT or TvZ. Can't wait until HotS so that Mech vs P will be viable. Should make the matchup sufficiently more interesting.
On January 03 2012 00:15 SeaSwift wrote: Oh, as an aside: TvP still looks like a really messy matchup. Just not as fun to watch as TvT or TvZ. Can't wait until HotS so that Mech vs P will be viable. Should make the matchup sufficiently more interesting.
Yup. It's a terrible matchup for me. TvZ, TvT, PvZ are all awesome, ZvZ has it's moments, but PvT and PvP are just bad.
On January 03 2012 00:15 SeaSwift wrote: Oh, as an aside: TvP still looks like a really messy matchup. Just not as fun to watch as TvT or TvZ. Can't wait until HotS so that Mech vs P will be viable. Should make the matchup sufficiently more interesting.
Yup. It's a terrible matchup for me. TvZ, TvT, PvZ are all awesome, ZvZ has it's moments, but PvT and PvP are just bad.
On January 03 2012 00:09 Itsmedudeman wrote: Keen vs. Nada
a bitter rivlary that will last to the ends of the universe
Isn't it a one sided rivalry so far? Hahaha
Well, it's the same as the MC and IdrA rivalry, or the MVP vs Nestea rivalry, or the MVP vs MMA rivalry.
A lot of rivalries are quite one-sided. The best ones aren't (HerO vs Puma, DRG vs MMA).
Polt vs MMA rivalry! >
MMA has a lotta rivals. DRG vs MMA is even better imo.
Polt vs MMA is probably the most one-sided rivalry in ESPORTS though
Didn't MMA recently rip Polt apart though. Can't recall when. The most one-sided rivalry's definitely MC IdrA
Nah, MMA edged a hard fought win over Polt after everything that could possibly go right for him at the start of the game did. He lost the first game they played that day though in pretty convincing fashion. They're like 7-2 in Polt's favour now.
-=---
Not sure whether Keen misread Nada meching for a bit there, he was going pretty much marine/tank for a while there and only now has he resumed marauder production.
On January 03 2012 00:15 SeaSwift wrote: Oh, as an aside: TvP still looks like a really messy matchup. Just not as fun to watch as TvT or TvZ. Can't wait until HotS so that Mech vs P will be viable. Should make the matchup sufficiently more interesting.
Yup. It's a terrible matchup for me. TvZ, TvT, PvZ are all awesome, ZvZ has it's moments, but PvT and PvP are just bad.
HerO style PvZ is awesome, but in GSL PvZ has always been disappointing. Other than that, yeah I agree.
Also, PvP's not too bad. Not great, but it's definitely improving as a matchup. Finale vs MC aside, that is...
Keen playing this pretty much perfectly, drops whenever Nada moves out of defensive positions, expanding a lot, and completely ready for a huge sky terran transition.
On January 03 2012 00:20 klops wrote: just tuned in, how was the forgg game?
Back n forth, but Finale just outplayed him in the end.
I disagree, after the failed 1-1-1 Finale had a massive lead and it was far closer than it should have been. If anything, Finale's good play came in the midgame rather than the lategame.
On January 03 2012 00:23 Asha` wrote: Keen playing this pretty much perfectly, drops whenever Nada moves out of defensive positions, expanding a lot, and completely ready for a huge sky terran transition.
Yea this is beautiful. Why in the world's he getting the Raven energy upgrade lol
On January 03 2012 00:23 Asha` wrote: Keen playing this pretty much perfectly, drops whenever Nada moves out of defensive positions, expanding a lot, and completely ready for a huge sky terran transition.
Yea this is beautiful. Why in the world's he getting the Raven energy upgrade lol
Easy, marauders they also break siege lines, raven's being used a lot recently tvt for seeker
I have literally not seen Keen lose a single game since MLG providence. He went undefeated in last month's code A, undefeated in the IPL team arena and now 2-0 today.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
On January 03 2012 00:28 eYeball wrote: Lol forgg loses to finale, maybe that will put down the hype a little from his fanboys?
ForGG lost because Finale had some unexpected decision making (the Nexus) and he lost because of this. It's like losing to some unscouted cheese, it happens to the best players some times but doesn't mean they played terribly.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
I would think the coaches are there to prevent players from doing something like that.
On January 03 2012 00:28 eYeball wrote: Lol forgg loses to finale, maybe that will put down the hype a little from his fanboys?
ForGG lost because Finale had some unexpected decision making (the Nexus) and he lost because of this. It's like losing to some unscouted cheese, it happens to the best players some times but doesn't mean they played terribly.
Yeah. The way in which fOrGG lost made it look more like bad luck than bad play.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
On January 03 2012 00:31 red4ce wrote: I have literally not seen Keen lose a single game since MLG providence. He went undefeated in last month's code A, undefeated in the IPL team arena and now 2-0 today.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
Gosh, why is there always someone to ask this?
I'm sorry Do grace me with your knowledge
I guess he might be a bit insulted by the insinuation that the teams would stream snipe. Koreans are big on honour, and for a whole team to go "Yeah lets cheat" would be pretty unbelievable.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
Gosh, why is there always someone to ask this?
I'm sorry Do grace me with your knowledge
I guess he might be a bit insulted by the insinuation that the teams would stream snipe. Koreans are big on honour, and for a whole team to go "Yeah lets cheat" would be pretty unbelievable.
Especially given the risk/reward. The cost for cheating is always massive, whereas winning this series isn't a big deal.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
Gosh, why is there always someone to ask this?
I'm sorry Do grace me with your knowledge
I guess he might be a bit insulted by the insinuation that the teams would stream snipe. Koreans are big on honour, and for a whole team to go "Yeah lets cheat" would be pretty unbelievable.
not only would it be risky, but it would completely ruin the reputation of any team/player/coaches involved, effectively destroying their competitive future
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
Gosh, why is there always someone to ask this?
I'm sorry Do grace me with your knowledge
I guess he might be a bit insulted by the insinuation that the teams would stream snipe. Koreans are big on honour, and for a whole team to go "Yeah lets cheat" would be pretty unbelievable.
not only would it be risky, but it would completely ruin the reputation of any team/player/coaches involved, effectively destroying their competitive future
Didn't Idra said something about koreans actually stream sniping and that team mates would actually help by opening streams during his time in korea? Anyway if I remember correctly the stream is delayed to prevent something like this happening.
Finale ooooooh finale ooooooh (not sure if anyone who doesnt speak german gets this ^^)
really nice performance from mvp... ogs once again disappointing as a team. I mean, judging from the names NaDa and MC have probably won more Code S games than all of MvP has played until now... but i guess that's the beauty of the teamleague(s).
btw... anyone knows wether fin wants to be called fin or forgg? as he clearly chose fin as name I would expect that people call him fin...
fOrGG tried to go for the easy win with the tank siege, but after finale expoed far from his main, fOrGG could have destroyed him with standard play using multiprong drops and harass. fOrGG's fault for not scouting finale's reaction to the engineering bay block and assuming a 3 gate expand variant.
On January 03 2012 00:30 frucisky wrote: This is played live right? What stops the teams from stream sniping? Are there KSL organisers in the team houses?
Gosh, why is there always someone to ask this?
I'm sorry Do grace me with your knowledge
I guess he might be a bit insulted by the insinuation that the teams would stream snipe. Koreans are big on honour, and for a whole team to go "Yeah lets cheat" would be pretty unbelievable.
The important part of this is that the entire team will have to be in on it. Though the culture (heavily influenced by confucius) does strongly stress on virtues like respect and honour, Korea is just as ripe with corruption and immorality as any western society if not more. However, in order for a player to cheat in this event, pretty much the whole team will have to be aware of it. If they consent to it, not only do they risk the team being destroyed from the outside via penalities, sanctions...etc, but from within their ranks as well. The risk is not worth the reward.
Having said that, you can never be 100% sure. Call me a cynic or whatever, but I've seen & experienced enough indecency to know people don't always choose the safe & moral path. Here's to hoping the built-in stream delay function finally takes root in 2012.
On January 03 2012 00:56 ravemir wrote: Wow, Fin and Nada taken down? Dayum...did they play horrible or something?
Fin, eh.
But Nada losing to Keen is no surprise. Nada has always said Keen has loads of potential and first picked Keen to start their rivalry due to Keen reminding him of a young Nada. Keen's always had the potential to be one of the best players in the world, but he's finally putting together the skill with the game knowledge he has picked up.
MVP sure is lucky to have Keen, sC and DongRaeGu, three of the best young players in the world as their aces.
On January 03 2012 00:56 ravemir wrote: Wow, Fin and Nada taken down? Dayum...did they play horrible or something?
Fin, eh.
But Nada losing to Keen is no surprise. Nada has always said Keen has loads of potential and first picked Keen to start their rivalry due to Keen reminding him of a young Nada. Keen's always had the potential to be one of the best players in the world, but he's finally putting together the skill with the game knowledge he has picked up.
MVP sure is lucky to have Keen, sC and DongRaeGu, three of the best young players in the world as their aces.
I wasn't aware, I'll be sure to pick up on his games in the GSL.
I'm not surprised abotu sC's game, though, given what he's been through...
I was expecting stellar performances from thestc & forGG (fin) but finale came in and swept up the series like a bonjwa! too bad he messed up the game vs mc. his pvt is absolutely monstrous!
On January 03 2012 00:24 Inflicted_ wrote: Why would NaDa pick Tal'darim Altar to mech on? It's like the universally agreed map where Bio > Mech.
I think KSL choose the maps, rather than the players.
Tal'darim actually isnt that bad for mech..... There are worse. Pretty much GG when he lost 3-4 tanks securing his 3rd tho =/
Agreed about the second part. From then on, it was just Keen slowly using his advantage and exploiting the weaknesses in Nada's immobile army.
About the first part, I don't really know. I rarely watch TvT, and I was under the assumption that as the map size gets bigger, mech gets worse. Are there other, more important factors then?
EDIT: Also, what a wonderful LR thread! Just realised there haven't been ANY balance whining, flaming or bans in 24 pages. Go 2012!
On January 03 2012 00:24 Inflicted_ wrote: Why would NaDa pick Tal'darim Altar to mech on? It's like the universally agreed map where Bio > Mech.
I think KSL choose the maps, rather than the players.
Tal'darim actually isnt that bad for mech..... There are worse. Pretty much GG when he lost 3-4 tanks securing his 3rd tho =/
Agreed about the second part. From then on, it was just Keen slowly using his advantage and exploiting the weaknesses in Nada's immobile army.
About the first part, I don't really know. I rarely watch TvT, and I was under the assumption that as the map size gets bigger, mech gets worse. Are there other, more important factors then?
EDIT: Also, what a wonderful LR thread! Just realised there haven't been ANY balance whining, flaming or bans in 24 pages. Go 2012!
i would assume that openess (negative for mech) and the ability to take and turtle on 3base (good for mech) is important, as well as specific aspects like siegable cliffs, containpositions etc.
not sure though about TDA. obviously a lot of pros think like Jinro, as they play mech there. and obviously mech isnt that weak in TvT overall, that it leads to autolosses on any map. still it a lot of time bio just looks dominant on it...
On January 03 2012 00:56 Big J wrote: Finale ooooooh finale ooooooh (not sure if anyone who doesnt speak german gets this ^^)
really nice performance from mvp... ogs once again disappointing as a team. I mean, judging from the names NaDa and MC have probably won more Code S games than all of MvP has played until now... but i guess that's the beauty of the teamleague(s).
btw... anyone knows wether fin wants to be called fin or forgg? as he clearly chose fin as name I would expect that people call him fin...
On January 03 2012 00:56 Big J wrote: Finale ooooooh finale ooooooh (not sure if anyone who doesnt speak german gets this ^^)
really nice performance from mvp... ogs once again disappointing as a team. I mean, judging from the names NaDa and MC have probably won more Code S games than all of MvP has played until now... but i guess that's the beauty of the teamleague(s).
btw... anyone knows wether fin wants to be called fin or forgg? as he clearly chose fin as name I would expect that people call him fin...
EPT![[image loading]](http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3636/kslbanner.png)
Korean StarCraft II League Daily! The KSL is sponsored by own3d.tv and can be viewed as an European event series that features the Korean Pro-Teams. The KSL is a series of daily matches between top Korean players from the teams Prime, oGs, NSHoSeo, MvP, ZeNEX, StarTale, Incredible Miracle, and FXOpen. After the booming start at the end of 2011, the KSL is proud to announce the 2012 KSL Opening Ceremonies, starting Monday, December 26th. Instead of the regularly scheduled Individual Matches, the KSL will be bringing you Best of 11 Team Matches for the entire week! ![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_lineups.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3029/mvpiconthin.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2095.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/70.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8889/ogsiconthin.png)
sC < ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1982.jpg)
finale > ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1847.jpg)
JookTo![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/26.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/207.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/640.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2242.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/147.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/images/liquibet/players/noimage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/motbob/vs.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_results.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8326/bracketsemiday2.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2209631/tlwork/ksl/00/ksl_stream.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/4555/own3dresize.png)
I'd say they're more equal than one better than the other.
![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.com/upload/1304/3536/1360/564687.JPG)
