On December 14 2011 03:37 regiment wrote: I strongly disagree with people bashing Naniwa for this.
I as a viewer don't want to watch meaningless games. I mean, even if my favourite player wins and it's a good match, I always have the feeling that the opponent doesn't play serious (well, why should he?). Naniwa just made it obvious and gets hated so much for it?
I don't know how things like this are handled in elsewhere, but in soccer you can often see a team that has to play a meaningless match to bring their reserve team. This is equal to not giving a fuck about weither that game is lost or not. And it still is professional. Naniwa doesn't have this option, so he cheeses (even though he knows it's unwinnable).
I sadly didn't see the game, but keep in mind that Naniwa could've just left instantly. Probe rushing was maybe actually done for the viewers and I read that a lot of people were amused by it.
I have to agree with IdrA here: 'dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.'
And to what I read about the reactions: I can't believe what people wrote here and there. Choya for example or Nazgul... I don't think they were very respectful themselves. And that sugar-coats it strongly.
At last, to all those 'this was disrespectful to those who stayed up to watch these games'-guys: I stayed up the whole weekend to watch these really, really dissapointing WCG-Finals. Still, I don't think Mvp should have played worse to make these matches interesting for the viewers. Do you? No? Then live with the fact that you can't expect good games just because you watch them.
I agree with Idra, the format is to blame not the player. Naniwa was being honest when he said there was no point in him playing a game where he wouldn't be trying. I'd rather he slap the tournament in the face with some of the reality of how they chose to have meaningless games than some stupid cheesy 4-gate all in. Cheese is cheese, whether proxy gates or probe rush, and either way I (as a viewer) get very little out of them.
Every other match was great, so I can't really complain about the actual games... just that they weren't best of 3's and that there was no change in prize money from 7th to 10th place to force players to try harder. Silly decision in my opinion when the total prize pool is so damn large.
Happy to see Polt regaining some form. Really wish nani had advanced, he had his first and second games in the bag, and third game was just a dice roll. Tough luck.
On December 13 2011 23:05 arChieSC2 wrote: i still dont get why they keep doing bo1 groupstages
Idk maybe because with bo1 today's cast lasted 5 hours and if it was bo3 group stage then it woulda been 10-15 hours which gom never does and would be quite painful for the players and casters..? They wanted to do group play because this is supposed to be the best players of 2011 and it's nice to see them all play each other to see who is the most well rounded rather than just a standard bracket where you only need to beat 3 people to win the whole tournament with a player pool this small, not to mention it wouldn't work with 10 players, you'd need 8 or 16.
Sure bo3 woulda been ideal but it's just a short tournament to end the year and you can't have it all, appreciate what you get.
did you know if you use double or triple the time u dont have to make it all in 1 day? just telling.. I can agree its short time, and they wanted to show the best players in 2011 to show their skill but as i said... in bo1 u can even lose to a 6pool.. i just see it bad in terms of competition and bad in terms of show
People are already being retarded complaining about "thrown matches" or having no incentive to win after you're out or secured etc, can you imagine how much more they would if there was days between matches in the group play where players might theoretically have time to make deals with each other to throw games that benefit another player (at least in the mind of the TL conspiracy theorists)? There'd be even more whining.
On December 14 2011 03:37 regiment wrote: I strongly disagree with people bashing Naniwa for this.
I as a viewer don't want to watch meaningless games. I mean, even if my favourite player wins and it's a good match, I always have the feeling that the opponent doesn't play serious (well, why should he?). Naniwa just made it obvious and gets hated so much for it?
I don't know how things like this are handled in elsewhere, but in soccer you can often see a team that has to play a meaningless match to bring their reserve team. This is equal to not giving a fuck about weither that game is lost or not. And it still is professional. Naniwa doesn't have this option, so he cheeses (even though he knows it's unwinnable).
I sadly didn't see the game, but keep in mind that Naniwa could've just left instantly. Probe rushing was maybe actually done for the viewers and I read that a lot of people were amused by it.
I have to agree with IdrA here: 'dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.'
And to what I read about the reactions: I can't believe what people wrote here and there. Choya for example or Nazgul... I don't think they were very respectful themselves. And that sugar-coats it strongly.
At last, to all those 'this was disrespectful to those who stayed up to watch these games'-guys: I stayed up the whole weekend to watch these really, really dissapointing WCG-Finals. Still, I don't think Mvp should have played worse to make these matches interesting for the viewers. Do you? No? Then live with the fact that you can't expect good games just because you watch them.
I agree with Idra, the format is to blame not the player. Naniwa was being honest when he said there was no point in him playing a game where he wouldn't be trying. I'd rather he slap the tournament in the face with some of the reality of how they chose to have meaningless games than some stupid cheesy 4-gate all in. Cheese is cheese, whether proxy gates or probe rush, and either way I (as a viewer) get very little out of them.
Every other match was great, so I can't really complain about the actual games... just that they weren't best of 3's and that there was no change in prize money from 7th to 10th place to force players to try harder. Silly decision in my opinion when the total prize pool is so damn large.
Maybe the game was meaningless and the format is bad, but Naniwa was still incredibly short sighted in doing what he did. It makes him look bad to tournament organisers, sponsors and a large portion of the fans. Naniwa may not care about what the fans think, but he has to care about tournament organisers and sponsors think if he ever wants to get anywhere. They're the ones which give him the ability to prove himself as a player.
He probably won't get screwed over by this one particular incident. But if he keeps it up he will. Quantic don't want their name on a player who throws games in a tournament setting, regardless of how meaningless they are.
On December 14 2011 04:45 fourColo wrote: Naniwa owns, sorry. He played an amazing game vs Leenock, didn't win but I've never seen such good ff+storms. Also created like a dozen threads full of drama. MMA can't do that. Nestea can't do that. Only Naniwa.
im sure if MMA or nestea acted like naniwa did there would be huge drama.
On December 14 2011 03:37 regiment wrote: I strongly disagree with people bashing Naniwa for this.
I as a viewer don't want to watch meaningless games. I mean, even if my favourite player wins and it's a good match, I always have the feeling that the opponent doesn't play serious (well, why should he?). Naniwa just made it obvious and gets hated so much for it?
I don't know how things like this are handled in elsewhere, but in soccer you can often see a team that has to play a meaningless match to bring their reserve team. This is equal to not giving a fuck about weither that game is lost or not. And it still is professional. Naniwa doesn't have this option, so he cheeses (even though he knows it's unwinnable).
I sadly didn't see the game, but keep in mind that Naniwa could've just left instantly. Probe rushing was maybe actually done for the viewers and I read that a lot of people were amused by it.
I have to agree with IdrA here: 'dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously.'
And to what I read about the reactions: I can't believe what people wrote here and there. Choya for example or Nazgul... I don't think they were very respectful themselves. And that sugar-coats it strongly.
At last, to all those 'this was disrespectful to those who stayed up to watch these games'-guys: I stayed up the whole weekend to watch these really, really dissapointing WCG-Finals. Still, I don't think Mvp should have played worse to make these matches interesting for the viewers. Do you? No? Then live with the fact that you can't expect good games just because you watch them.
I agree with Idra, the format is to blame not the player. Naniwa was being honest when he said there was no point in him playing a game where he wouldn't be trying. I'd rather he slap the tournament in the face with some of the reality of how they chose to have meaningless games than some stupid cheesy 4-gate all in. Cheese is cheese, whether proxy gates or probe rush, and either way I (as a viewer) get very little out of them.
Every other match was great, so I can't really complain about the actual games... just that they weren't best of 3's and that there was no change in prize money from 7th to 10th place to force players to try harder. Silly decision in my opinion when the total prize pool is so damn large.
He probably won't get screwed over by this one particular incident. But if he keeps it up he will. Quantic don't want their name on a player who throws games in a tournament setting, regardless of how meaningless they are.
On December 14 2011 04:45 fourColo wrote: Naniwa owns, sorry. He played an amazing game vs Leenock, didn't win but I've never seen such good ff+storms. Also created like a dozen threads full of drama. MMA can't do that. Nestea can't do that. Only Naniwa.
im sure if MMA or nestea acted like naniwa did there would be huge drama.
And I'm sure there woulden't be.
heh okay. if you believe this then you're delusional
On December 13 2011 23:15 MorroW wrote: because both were out of the tournament the game didnt matter. why do they even have the game in the first place? its kinda silly because both players have no reason to fight their hardest or show potential secret builds
he probably wasnt allowed to give walkover so he just did whatever ended the game the quickest
do you guys really wanna watch 2 guys play a casual game during GSL blizzard cup where neither of them cares about winning?
im not saying what naniwa did was right or wrong, or manner or bad manner. im just saying i think the system should allow for walkovers if they players request it if the game has no meaning
The game may didn't matter for the tournament but the recent rivalry between both sure matters, why didn't he play seriously after all that "trashtalk".
I am just wondering. No matter what Naniwa did do you really think it would not have been a shit game regardless? I guess he could have done a 2 gate proxy or a 4 gate to save some face. But it would have still been a shit game.
If there was even a slight reason to play this game like for slightly more prize money or some points to determine ranking somewhere then I think he would not have played like that.
Although as a competitor it was kinda shitty to put 0 effort at all. At least put a tiny bit of effort into it.
On December 14 2011 04:45 fourColo wrote: Naniwa owns, sorry. He played an amazing game vs Leenock, didn't win but I've never seen such good ff+storms. Also created like a dozen threads full of drama. MMA can't do that. Nestea can't do that. Only Naniwa.
im sure if MMA or nestea acted like naniwa did there would be huge drama.
But they didn't and probably never will.
You're right there. They wouldn't because it's rude and disrespectful. Also because they're not blatant attention seekers that can't think beyond themselves. Apparently some of the men forgot to grow up and are still babies on the inside.
On December 14 2011 05:06 ChroMaTe_ wrote: So NaNiwa has some spunk and moxy, its what makes him loveable to some people, including myself.
throwing a game isn't spunk, its just being an immature ass. And the way he threw it was pretty much just a straight up forfeit. That was one of the most disrespectful and unprofessional things to do. You don't see professional sports team that are out of the playoff race just forfeiting and not trying, even when losing would actually help them out. They have pride, so they go out and play the game and try to win. If naniwa didn't try as hard in this game as usual, then thats fine, just his choice, but to give up like this is ridiculous. He definitely needs to be fined by quantic for this, and maybe even a ban from the GSL next season.
On December 13 2011 23:15 MorroW wrote: because both were out of the tournament the game didnt matter. why do they even have the game in the first place? its kinda silly because both players have no reason to fight their hardest or show potential secret builds
he probably wasnt allowed to give walkover so he just did whatever ended the game the quickest
do you guys really wanna watch 2 guys play a casual game during GSL blizzard cup where neither of them cares about winning?
im not saying what naniwa did was right or wrong, or manner or bad manner. im just saying i think the system should allow for walkovers if they players request it if the game has no meaning
yeah, but on the other hand they must have known that this could end up being a situation if they knew the tournament format. so my point is that if players dont agree with the format, even if things like this can occur, then dont join it. or do our best to show a good game. the thing is that many people wanted to see this game in particular. i dont even get why naniwa didnt want to play against nestea considering their past.
players are a part of the show. that's what it means when you're sponsored. you're part of a show and doing what naniwa did is pretty much like walking out of a job. but then again, i'm sure the controversy and outlandishness of what he did probably benefits GSL in some way too, publicity-wise :x
Everyone who is defending the Naniwa thing of the game didnt matter is just wrong. Every professional league has games that 'dont matter' think of NFL games between two teams who are garaunteed to not make it to the playoffs. Yes everyone understands that maybe your heart isn't in it anymore, but its a spectator sport. Where do you think the money comes from? You're on TV, do your fucking job. Even if its not your most motivated game, play. It's what you do for a living. Don't bring out your super secret builds if you don't want to. That doesn't excuse not playing.
If my NFL team were garaunteed out of the playoffs and they just took a knee all game and shit, I'd think they should all be fined and/or released. Anyone would. You're a professional, again, do your JOB.
EPT
