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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 28 2011 13:02 tgun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 13:00 SwizzY wrote:
Hwangsin officially gained no fans.
Too bad Rain, you are definitely the stronger player imho. :/
At least you'll never make that mistake again... lol o_o;; the stronger player on the day is the one that wins, dude. It doesn't matter if they do it by cheesing or macroing..
I was a fan of the Warp Prism + sentry ff on the ramp, so call me a fan for a brief moment. So SwizzY is wrong
And that wasn't cheese. Nor do I call one base plays all in. You can always expand if you are able to do enough damage. All in = pull scvs/drones/probes
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If HwangSin manages to cheese HerO out of the finals, this website will erupt.
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On November 28 2011 13:04 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 13:02 tgun wrote:On November 28 2011 13:00 SwizzY wrote:
Hwangsin officially gained no fans.
Too bad Rain, you are definitely the stronger player imho. :/
At least you'll never make that mistake again... lol o_o;; the stronger player on the day is the one that wins, dude. It doesn't matter if they do it by cheesing or macroing.. I was a fan of the Warp Prism + sentry ff on the ramp, so call me a fan for a brief moment. So SwizzY is wrong And that wasn't cheese. Nor do I call one base plays all in. You can always expand if you are able to do enough damage. All in = pull scvs/drones/probes
You won't be welcome in livereport threads if you keep using logic! 
I think the reason most people call it cheese/allin is because it _has_ to do damage, but at the same time, people don't understand that attempting to drop about ~70% of your army (game 2), leaving very little to defend is also as cheesy, as say, a proxy gate.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 28 2011 13:06 tgun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 13:04 lichter wrote:On November 28 2011 13:02 tgun wrote:On November 28 2011 13:00 SwizzY wrote:
Hwangsin officially gained no fans.
Too bad Rain, you are definitely the stronger player imho. :/
At least you'll never make that mistake again... lol o_o;; the stronger player on the day is the one that wins, dude. It doesn't matter if they do it by cheesing or macroing.. I was a fan of the Warp Prism + sentry ff on the ramp, so call me a fan for a brief moment. So SwizzY is wrong And that wasn't cheese. Nor do I call one base plays all in. You can always expand if you are able to do enough damage. All in = pull scvs/drones/probes You won't be welcome in livereport threads if you keep using logic! I think the reason most people call it cheese/allin is because it _has_ to do damage, but at the same time, people don't understand that attempting to drop about ~70% of your army (game 2), leaving very little to defend is also as cheesy, as say, a proxy gate.
Or they call it cheesy because Rain lost -____- ''
When Protoss and Terran do one base pressure (into an eventual expend) vs Zerg who FEs, it is okay (even standard), but when they do it against each other it is cheese? Come on.
Also: <3 tgun
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Wow, at least 1 protoss in the semi-finals.
Let's not villify a player who uses "cheese". Cheese is a viable strategy in terms of mindgames and metagames, etc. Boxer, oov, July, Flash all have used cheese to great effect, because it works.
Congrats Hwangsin!
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 28 2011 13:06 tgun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 13:04 lichter wrote:On November 28 2011 13:02 tgun wrote:On November 28 2011 13:00 SwizzY wrote:
Hwangsin officially gained no fans.
Too bad Rain, you are definitely the stronger player imho. :/
At least you'll never make that mistake again... lol o_o;; the stronger player on the day is the one that wins, dude. It doesn't matter if they do it by cheesing or macroing.. I was a fan of the Warp Prism + sentry ff on the ramp, so call me a fan for a brief moment. So SwizzY is wrong And that wasn't cheese. Nor do I call one base plays all in. You can always expand if you are able to do enough damage. All in = pull scvs/drones/probes You won't be welcome in livereport threads if you keep using logic! I think the reason most people call it cheese/allin is because it _has_ to do damage, but at the same time, people don't understand that attempting to drop about ~70% of your army (game 2), leaving very little to defend is also as cheesy, as say, a proxy gate.
I feel bad that i'm lumped with all of those mindless blahblah OP/cheese chanters. 
I didn't mean it like that, just saying, if Rain had even one supply depot on that ridge (which Hwangsin did not scout at all), Rain would have demolished the attack or at least repelled it.
Keep in mind that Hwangsin went immortal first, then continued to pump immortals then a warp prism. I don't think he got an observer at all.
It was a bold play that shouldn't have worked. Which is what I mean when I say that Rain definitely won't make that mistake again. Ever. Hwangsin's build was pretty crisp, if he denied the SCV scout he could've kept Rain in the dark enough to storm the front. But again, like I said, luck played a huge factor in that ending, and I would like to see someone try to argue otherwise. 
All respect due to winner. But he has not won me as a fan with ballsyreckless play.
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*sigh* Oh, mOOnGLaDe...
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 28 2011 13:51 SwizzY wrote:I feel bad that i'm lumped with all of those mindless blahblah OP/cheese chanters. I didn't mean it like that, just saying, if Rain had even one supply depot on that ridge (which Hwangsin did not scout at all), Rain would have demolished the attack or at least repelled it. Keep in mind that Hwangsin went immortal first, then continued to pump immortals then a warp prism. I don't think he got an observer at all. It was a bold play that shouldn't have worked. Which is what I mean when I say that Rain definitely won't make that mistake again. Ever. Hwangsin's build was pretty crisp, if he denied the SCV scout he could've kept Rain in the dark enough to storm the front. But again, like I said, luck played a huge factor in that ending, and I would like to see someone try to argue otherwise. All respect due to winner. But he has not won me as a fan with ballsyreckless play.
I agree that it was crazy and depended a lot on his opponent having unfortunate depot placement. But it worked. The build order was also a bit weird and very bold (immortal first, lol)--had Rain not gone for an FE he would have killed HwangSin straight up, but these hypothetical situations don't matter.
It is weird, "shouldn't have worked!" strategies that make the game so exciting. I'd stop watching this game if every game played out the same way, with the same standard builds each and every time. Actually, maybe that's what a lot of players expect (standard) and the reason why Rain could never have anticipated what HwangSin was planning. I do agree that in many cases his plan would have failed, but it didn't. It was lucky, but it was pretty great.
So yeah, crazy build that got lucky, but that doesn't make it cheese or an all-in (it could have been though, if he had pulled probes or if the first attack failed and he continued attacking instead of expending etcetcetc).
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On November 28 2011 13:04 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 13:02 tgun wrote:On November 28 2011 13:00 SwizzY wrote:
Hwangsin officially gained no fans.
Too bad Rain, you are definitely the stronger player imho. :/
At least you'll never make that mistake again... lol o_o;; the stronger player on the day is the one that wins, dude. It doesn't matter if they do it by cheesing or macroing.. I was a fan of the Warp Prism + sentry ff on the ramp, so call me a fan for a brief moment. So SwizzY is wrong And that wasn't cheese. Nor do I call one base plays all in. You can always expand if you are able to do enough damage. All in = pull scvs/drones/probes
Actually, That is exactly what defines an all-in. A strategy which you cannot transition out of unless you do crippling damage. It does not mean you literally bring all of your workers. An example, 4gate is all-in vs Terran and Zerg because you stop producing workers, whilst your opponent continues to, and you have no tech beyond warp-gate. If the 4gate fails to do economic damage, or fails to win the game outright, you will be far enough behind that the game will likely be over after a follow-up counter attack.
Cheese is an early game aggression strategy which relies on being unscouted to succeed.
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Congrats to HwangSin, one thing I don't think everyone knows is that Hwang and Rain are very good friends, that practice together quite a bit. They really weren't looking forward to playing eachother in this. <3 Rain and HwangSin fighting! Can't wait to be hanging out again in a few days :D
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EPT
