EPT[GCPL Final] Empire vs EG - Page 34
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JediGamer
United States656 Posts
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hitpoint
United States1511 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote: It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. I know it isn't all-in, nothing really is for terran, but making 10 hellions blindly and charging directly into your opponents mineral line should be considered cheese. 5 rax reaper wasn't an all-in either, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered cheese. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:14 K3Nyy wrote: It's not cheese. In a sense, Idra "cheesed" more than Kas, though his "cheese" was blindly build drones without scouting. Kas went 2fact reactor hellions which isn't cheese in the slightest. YES IT IS You have to go 2fact reactor blind and pray that your opponent doesn't get a random lucky OL scout in to see the second fact. If you don't do enough damage you are behind and any decent Zerg midgame will just crush you, as you will be so hard pressed to take a third. Idra played greedy like always, and Kas won with simple hellion builds. If Idra had said GG and left, this thread wouldn't even be going nuts. Kas played average in every single game, but Terran cheese is best cheese. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:15 Chewbacca. wrote: Hellions deny any scouting and that map has such a large base that you can't OL scout. And if you can't scout then playing so supergreedy like Idra did was just moronic especially considering he already died for that exact same reason in a game earlier agaist the same opponent. | ||
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BandonBanshee
Canada437 Posts
How does that have anything to do with what I said? Have you ever been counter attacked by drones? Kas didn't do anything special, He didn't scout idra for an extended period of time and just hoped his hellions would do enough damage....It makes for terrible quality games because either way its over in a flash. If you see the game from Kas's vision he didn't know what spawn idra was at until 7:00 minutes in. Idra made alot of mistakes too but at the end of the day kas just crossed his fingers. | ||
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Bocian
Poland259 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:12 skrotcyk wrote: u do realize that reactor hellion opening deny scouting and u gotta go blind roaches as zerg, and that will put you at a disadvantage. Exacly. Roaches are really bad vs marine tank pushes. And that is the thing Idra said on sotg: Terran does not lose to bulls**t. I'm sure every zerg has really dumb loses because they were not able to scout it and they were totally unprepared. It's almost impossible to surprise a terran player (ye roach ling all in is defendable with playing standard) | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:17 JediGamer wrote: The roach build easily counters this. But Zergs have gotten so used to being able to drone into the midgame that when they get punished for it it becomes "Cheese". What ever happenned to conservative zergplay like in BW? "The" roach build? Are you talking about something specific, or just making roaches in general? | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:17 K3Nyy wrote: So the reaction to no information is to mass drones? Lol, please stop being biased. You don't need roaches to stop a normal reactor hellion opening. IdrA prepared for what he saw, which was MOST LIKELY 6-8 hellions. If you did not see, he had a spine, 3 queens, and 15 zerglings, enough to stop that. Are you saying he should have went roaches, just on the OFF CHANCE that Kas made double factory and 16 hellions? That's why IdrA dislikes early TvZ, you have to fucking guess sometimes. | ||
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KvltMan
Sweden1609 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:16 4Servy wrote: kas is a better player than idra overall I think so I dont see why all this whine is needed. I can win with zerg vs top terrans to if idd just make 80 drones everygame 1 spine, 4 bases and get all tech infrastructure and hope people dont attack me. Kas hasn't really been impressive at any big LANs so far, and also just faces the European a-team mostly, where he isn't as consistent as he used to be. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:17 JediGamer wrote: The roach build easily counters this. But Zergs have gotten so used to being able to drone into the midgame that when they get punished for it it becomes "Cheese". What ever happenned to conservative zergplay like in BW? Because BW isn't SC2 genius. Conservative Zerg play doesn't work, lmfao. The roach build counters this if you do the roach build blindly and hope he doesn't tech straight to siege tanks because then your Lair is too late, and Marine/Siege push pre-muta kills you. Idra just got the wrong side of the coin flip. | ||
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msjakofsky
1169 Posts
actually kas' macro is on par with idras but his multitasking is worse i've seen like a million kas games and he goes for long macro games almost all the time. he was trying to mindfuck idra, he succeeded, and fanboys are angry about it. 6 lings on 3 bases at 10 minute is simply bad play from idra, kas deserves the win. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:19 SafeAsCheese wrote: You don't need roaches to stop a normal reactor hellion opening. IdrA prepared for what he saw, which was MOST LIKELY 6-8 hellions. If you did not see, he had a spine, 3 queens, and 15 zerglings, enough to stop that. Are you saying he should have went roaches, just on the OFF CHANCE that Kas made double factory and 16 hellions? That's why IdrA dislikes early TvZ, you have to fucking guess sometimes. How about keeping a ling infront of your ramp and walling OR putting your queens in position to keep potential Helions away. He already lost to Kas building a buttload of Helions why take the risk to die to that again. | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:10 trinxified wrote: The zerg player not only loses drones... also loses mining time and larvae. terran not only loses hellions, but also tech time which is crucial because all ur important upgrades whether u go mech or bio (especially bio) will be delayed with investing so much resources into the early hellion play. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
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SoLaR[i.C]
United States2969 Posts
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skrotcyk
Sweden432 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:18 s3rp wrote: And if you can't scout then playing so supergreedy like Idra did was just moronic especially considering he already died for that exact same reason in a game earlier agaist the same opponent. no but if he gonna make blind roaches he's gonna lose to any competent terran who's gonna get 3base up rly fast on a map like that. so he didn't have much of a choice and kas did a good job abusing it. | ||
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MuK_x
743 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:19 KvltMan wrote: Kas hasn't really been impressive at any big LANs so far, and also just faces the European a-team mostly, where he isn't as consistent as he used to be. what? Kas played final in Copenhagen games,lose to MC(when MC was in best form). | ||
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:21 s3rp wrote: How about keeping a ling infront of your ramp and walling OR putting your queens in position to keep potential Helions away. He already lost to Kas building a buttload of Helions why take the risk to die to that again. Hellions give map control for the ling comment, and queens need to be injecting. He had his spare queen at the ramp. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On November 14 2011 07:22 cklrkzk wrote: what? Kas played final in Copenhagen games,lose to MC(when MC was in best form). Also, he won WCG Ukraine when players like Dimaga, White-Ra, Strelok and HappyZerg attended. | ||
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
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