The time has come for our second IGN Pro League Fight Club! This is a weekly king of the hill showmatch series. Basically, there will be a 1 vs. 1 best of 9 showmatch each and every week, where the winner will earn a $500 prize and a $100 bounty on their head. For example, if a player wins three weeks in a row they will have earned $1,500 and a $300 bounty. If a NEW challenger defeats him, they will earn $500 for the showmatch, take the $300 bounty home, and have a new $100 bounty placed on their head for each week that they win. (Similar to IPL Team Arena, but without the teams!)
When: Sunday, Nov 13 1:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) (we will also have a European re-broadcast as usual at Sunday, Nov 13 5:30pm GMT (GMT+00:00))
The competitors of IPL Fight Club 2 are two titans of their respective races. Liquid`Sheth has earned the "First Blood" achievement by knocking off White-Ra in Fight Club 1, but will have his hands full with SlayerS`Ryung, a gentlemen you may recognize from the GSL and GSTL tournaments! He also just earned himself a free trip to the IPL 4 UK Qualifier on November 18th to compete for a $20,000 prize pool and a qualifying spot in the upcoming IPL 4 tournament! We'll see if Sheth can keep up!
Very hard to see Sheth win this unless Ryung gets sick or suffers from serious lag. With a BO9, the luck and cheese factor is greatly diminished, and Ryung is just the overall better player.
Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
Overrated? I would say that Ryung is underrated because he must constantly be under the shadow of players such as MMA (and Ganzi to a lesser extent). He was still a Code S player until recently. If Ryung were to leave Slayers, foreign teams would kill to get him on their team.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
ur wrong i remember MMA saying in an interview after gsl oct final that he practiced against ryung's mech and he couldnt even take a game just because he loses tvt in a televised game doesnt mean that he's not the best
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
WHAT,Ryung is best player in SlayerS,most underrated korean player imo.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
WHAT,Ryung is best player in SlayerS,most underrated korean player imo.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
WHAT,Ryung is best player in SlayerS,most underrated korean player imo.
Ryung 5-1.
HA your funny
Im not joking,you should watch Ryung vs Puzzle - Ryung vs July from last season.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
WHAT,Ryung is best player in SlayerS,most underrated korean player imo.
Ryung 5-1.
HA your funny
Im not joking,you should watch Ryung vs Puzzle - Ryung vs July from last season.
I know right you should watch MMA win a GSL championship by beating the best playing in the world. oh and carry slayers to 2 GSTL titles but totally Ryung is better.......................................
Nah Ryung is overrated as far as tournaments go. Everyone always hypes him up and then he gets crushed. It's normal. He is the least well off SlayerS Terran, or at least least well off famous Terran. Idk if I'm forgetting one. But Sheth, although being a good player, isn't awesome. I'll say this should be close. Korean Terran vs international Zerg though, I'll give Ryung the favorite.
I think sheth has a good chance of winning especially with cross-server lag advantage. Morrow took down ryung pretty handily in mouz vs slayers, so he's definitely not unbeatable zvt.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
lol... Sheth got eliminated in the first round of Code A, while Ryung has been in Code S for a few seasons now. Stephano and Idra would have a very hard time beating Ryung, and Ryung would be favorite over even them. Against Sheth, hes the heavy favorite.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
lol... Sheth got eliminated in the first round of Code A, while Ryung has been in Code S for a few seasons now. Stephano and Idra would have a very hard time beating Ryung, and Ryung would be favorite over even them. Against Sheth, hes the heavy favorite.
Sheth didn't lose in the first round of code A, he withdrew from Korea after beating San and losing to puzzle. Anyway ryung got this I guess I'd love an IPL3 rematch between him and lucky next time.
On November 10 2011 15:09 red4ce wrote: Ryung so overrated. A TvT specialist who isn't even the best TvTer on his own team. Take him off SlayerS and he'd just be another nameless 3rd tier terran. If this was Idra or Stephano playing I'd predict them to beat Ryung 5-1 or 5-2. Unfortunately Sheth hasn't figured out or maybe doesn't have the macro for ZvT. It'll probably be something like Ryung 5-3 but I'm gonna go with Sheth 5-4.
i'm one of the biggest ryung fans around, but i have a bad feeling he's gonna lose. i have never seen him that good with tvz and tvp to begin with, but i'm still gonna cheer him on. ryung fighting~~
Painuser reckoned that the attack on the PF was a huge loss to Sheth, but he killed all the tanks and lost very few mutas...seemed to me like it was a real success.
On November 13 2011 10:26 The KY wrote: Painuser reckoned that the attack on the PF was a huge loss to Sheth, but he killed all the tanks and lost very few mutas...seemed to me like it was a real success.
yeah im not sure why he said that was ineffective, sheth had like 4 bases and was going for a 5th/6th, had full map control and had the bank to reinforce so i feel like it was smart to widdle down ryung's force and not let him sit back and macro
Oh man, I'm a fan of both Sheth and Ryung so I guess I need to root for whoever's behind in the series, just to get more games in. great game 1 Sheth, showing us some solid zvt skills
edit: how's this for coincidence? today i randomly decided to wear my TL shirt that Ryung and Sheth both signed at IPL3 in atlantic city...
Ryung's the least favored of BoxeR's sons. MMA, TaeJa, and GanZi all seem to overshadow him with their tournament results. However, I still think he's a really, really fantastic player and hope he picks things up with his future tournament-play.
On November 13 2011 10:37 Leifish wrote: Ryung's the least favored of BoxeR's sons. MMA, TaeJa, and GanZi all seem to overshadow him with their tournament results. However, I still think he's a really, really fantastic player and hope he picks things up with his future tournament-play.
I think that is only of late, a few months ago Ryung was considered second or maybe even the best SlayerS Terran by some.
On November 13 2011 10:37 Leifish wrote: Ryung's the least favored of BoxeR's sons. MMA, TaeJa, and GanZi all seem to overshadow him with their tournament results. However, I still think he's a really, really fantastic player and hope he picks things up with his future tournament-play.
I think that is only of late, a few months ago Ryung was considered second or maybe even the best SlayerS Terran by some.
Yeah but BoxeR wasn't one of the ones that considered him that high on the SlayerS Terran ladder.
On November 13 2011 10:37 Leifish wrote: Ryung's the least favored of BoxeR's sons. MMA, TaeJa, and GanZi all seem to overshadow him with their tournament results. However, I still think he's a really, really fantastic player and hope he picks things up with his future tournament-play.
I think that is only of late, a few months ago Ryung was considered second or maybe even the best SlayerS Terran by some.
I think his TvP has always been the weakest out of the 4 but yeah, he was a pretty good player up until just recently where he's been getting knocked out early.
Also, Ryung did in fact beat stephano in some qualifier 3-1, all 3 wins in macro games.
I really hope Sheth wins this series, I would love to see how well he plays against Koreans, and so he can prove to not only everyone, but himself as well, that he is a good player and can place very highly at the MLG Providence Finals this weekend
Ryung's multitasking and decision making was completely off that game. He never pushed with his main army when sheth did a major counter attack, and he ended up having his army split into 2, and then he also never got that 4th going.
Terrible observing. Miss an entire elevator to watch 20 lings run by. Sheth attacks and Ryung has no tanks for some reason. No idea what happened that game. Tbh, Sheth was never really that far behind. After the hellions died, Sheth literally couldn't be attacked for 10 minutes. No stim, no tanks, poor economy. Sheth dealt with the hellions extremely well.
On November 13 2011 10:58 astroorion wrote: I really hope Sheth wins this series, I would love to see how well he plays against Koreans, and so he can prove to not only everyone, but himself as well, that he is a good player and can place very highly at the MLG Providence Finals this weekend
This is a good point. Back when Sheth was in Korea it seemed like he had real potential against Koreans - fought well in GSTL, and made it to Code A ro16. Was totally ready to cheer for him in the next code A before he came back. Good to see he's even improved against Koreans from that time.
Such an early third cc, such a late third. No excuse for a Terran player to lose to ling bling infestor when he is fortified with tanks and bunkers. He is simply getting outplayed and outmacrod by Sheth, who lost to marines only vs Bomber. Tbh, Ryung has fallen a lot in GSL as well. He lost TvT to Clide, is now Code A, and was not producing more than ten marines at a time that game. I've seen MVP go to 16 marines at a time on 3 base.
On November 13 2011 11:46 StimMarine wrote: Just tuned in, and am surprised by the domination here. Was there any evidence of lag?
Not really, mainly things like Ryung forgetting about drops and dying to counter attacks. No intense micro situations really (except potentially in with hellions on Metalopolis, but his micro was really good regardless).
I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
Hmm...Sheth made that scary for a few moments. I think he got too comfortable and threw away a lot of units. He managed to close it out though, so all good!
Ah those Ryung fanboy excuses. Lag, small prize pool and 'not taking it seriously' didn't seem to stop SlayerS from stomping foreigners in the IPL Team Arena, so why does Ryung get a pass here? Congrats to Sheth!
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
Serisouly. There may be delay but it isn't so bad that every time a Korean loses to a foreigner it is because of massive lag from playing between servers.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Sheth played very well. I think Ryung was in a little bit of shock that Sheth was rolling (the game where he lifts off all his buildings in a clearly unwinnable situation).
i would have to watch the games to see what happened but even Mvp a A teamer from stars lose to a guy called adelscott in macro games for tsl2 i don't know if the circumstances where the same but id have to say Mvp is somewhere between 5 to 10 times better then adelscott yet he still lost whether that be due to delay sc2 being so young or Mvp seemingly having a horrible horrible day i didn't watch the games between sheth and ryung so i shouldn't be talking about this at all.... but delay can really hurt splitting vs banelings and sort of early marine agression and can really throw people off there game. Maybe sheth has gotten alot better since i last saw him but i just don't think he could beat ryung in a bo7 that domninating if they were playing at a mlg or something.
On November 13 2011 12:50 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Sheth played very well. I think Ryung was in a little bit of shock that Sheth was rolling (the game where he lifts off all his buildings in a clearly unwinnable situation).
Ryung did that premature gg in one of the games. I think he was tilting a bit in the later half of the series.
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Hehe maybe they should have advertised it as "560,000 Korean Won Prize", that makes it sound like a bigger deal
On November 13 2011 13:00 Bd.Snake wrote: i would have to watch the games to see what happened but even Mvp a A teamer from stars lose to a guy called adelscott in macro games for tsl2 i don't know if the circumstances where the same but id have to say Mvp is somewhere between 5 to 10 times better then adelscott yet he still lost whether that be due to delay sc2 being so young or Mvp seemingly having a horrible horrible day i didn't watch the games between sheth and ryung so i shouldn't be talking about this at all.... but delay can really hurt splitting vs banelings and sort of early marine agression and can really throw people off there game. Maybe sheth has gotten alot better since i last saw him but i just don't think he could beat ryung in a bo7 that domninating if they were playing at a mlg or something.
I love sheth im not trying to be a dooshbag btw
MVP was terrible vP back then. TSL3 was a perfect storm of Koreans not being used to playing with lag and not being aware of NA/EU strategies. Since then Koreans have adjusted and have been just as dominant online (NASL, FXO Invitational, IPL team league, etc) as they are in live tournaments. Ryung just has mediocre TvZ. That's all there is to it. This is the guy who lost to Lucky in IPL3 after all. There was no problem with marine vs baneling splitting in this series because Ryung used mech most of the games. This is what I mean when I called Ryung overrated in the first page of the thread. People assume Ryung must be gosu at everything because he's a code S Korean on SlayerS, when honestly he's rarely ever shown anything impressive outside TvT.
Wow grats to Sheth, never would have expected him to win vs Ryung. Was listening to him talk on some show (maybe F Slasher) saying that korean terrans were the hurdle he was struggling with in tournaments. Maybe this is a good sign for the future :D
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
Congrats on having picking up such a fine player in Liquid'Sheth I opened the spoiler tag hoping to see that it would at least be close, but I am glad it wasn't.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
Then there's other examples like Fenix quitting NASL because of the "unplayable delay". Sheth is awesome, and I definitely wouldn't say he can't beat Ryung (particularly considering he's been slumping hard, but I'd say Ryung would probably play better under optimal conditions.
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
man sheth, really GJ. And for all the lag whiners: Slayers for example are ripping are apart foreign team with their lag aswell. The isnt that hart, that you cant play.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Ask any poster, any REAL poster. Quoting the Fast and the Furious is the lamest thing you can do.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
Well he's playing season 2. And he never bothered to apply for season 1. so what's your point?
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 17:06 Leifish wrote:
On November 13 2011 13:07 Kennigit wrote:
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
GSL gives you time to prepare for your next opponent. everything else (except NASL) isnt.
this is like NBA finals. lebron is (supposed to be) the best player, but dirk and the mavs beat the crap out of the "big 3", and are the NBA champions. shouldnt matter whos supposed to be better, whoever won, won.
It's still very funny how many people seem liking to discuss these issues with lag, delay, motivated or not every single time! Not only of gsl or big tournaments, but also in little showmatches...
Can't you just watch it and enjoy!? If you ever let this be, then you may enjoy more SC2!
I see no point in making excuses for either player, all I care about is results. While my brain would have placed my bets on Ryung, I can't deny Sheth was the better player this time around. A deserved victory.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
IPL and NASL both have a bigger prize pool than MLG. How do you know how top level players think?? Please don't preach your opinions like you actually know how they feel/think about winning.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 17:06 Leifish wrote:
On November 13 2011 13:07 Kennigit wrote:
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
1. Jinro won an MLG, which he is known for in that regard. 2. You're wrong about the prize pool. Many progamers are hardly making any money whatsoever. This was especially true in BW, where the players not on the A-team hardly received any salary, but rather just rent + barely enough to eat. They need all the money they can get, they are hardly living a luxurious lifestyle. 3. You must be very new to esports if you don't think progamers are giving it at least 75% at all times in a tourney setting. If they weren't going to give 75% they wouldn't sign up.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 17:06 Leifish wrote:
On November 13 2011 13:07 Kennigit wrote:
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players.
Really, ONE GSL Ro8? -_-
It was two back-to-back semi finals in GSL (which is ro4), and an MLG win. Jinro is still more successful than quite a few well known Korean players (DRG for example).
On November 13 2011 21:09 Shinta) wrote: Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
You are a complete ignorant and I would really ask you to stop posting until you inform yourself. I'm going to explain you this once so you have a good example to go by.
"That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8?"
Jinro is not famous for a single Ro8 finish. He's famous for a Ro4 finish, twice. He is also famous for winning an MLG. Starting your post off with this shit is embarrassing.
$500 is a shitload of money for a Korean Code A player. They make no salary and barely anything from prize money on a monthly basis. There aren't any tournaments to play in Korea except for GSL, and being in Code A does not make a player much at all. For Ryung $500 is a lot of money and more than he will be playing for in the foreseeable future. To think that it means nothing to him is utterly ridiculous.
Grats to Sheth the manner baller he is, taking down White-ra is always a tricky thing, and now a code S caliber player aswell you are on a roll son, keep it up.
And don't sweat it Nazgul, most people know how good Jinro is and not only was. He will be back this game is only just starting.
On November 13 2011 21:09 Shinta) wrote: Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
You are a complete ignorant and I would really ask you to stop posting until you inform yourself. I'm going to explain you this once so you have a good example to go by.
"That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8?"
Jinro is not famous for a single Ro8 finish. He's famous for a Ro4 finish, twice. He is also famous for winning an MLG. Starting your post off with this shit is embarrassing.
$500 is a shitload of money for a Korean Code A player. They make no salary and barely anything from prize money on a monthly basis. There aren't any tournaments to play in Korea except for GSL, and being in Code A does not make a player much at all. For Ryung $500 is a lot of money and more than he will be playing for in the foreseeable future. To think that it means nothing to him is utterly ridiculous.
Congratz that he won an MLG, but that was MLG Dallas, the first MLG which didn't have any top tiered players. He had good wins over TT1 and a not yet so good Ret, but neither of those are or were huge wins in top top pro gaming. And the "ro8?" was there because I wasn't 100% about his performance, and was only positive that he did really well in that tournament. I'm sorry that I didn't remember his ro4 appearance vs MKP during MKP's shoot up to fame. I thought I would have remembered something like that, but I didn't, and I'll do background checks b4 I post next time.
Don't be confused. I'm a Jinro fan, always have been. The fact that I post statements about him doesn't mean I'm putting him down. I root for him in almost every tournament. Also, thank you for correcting me about his top achievements.
And about the money, yeah Ryung is a Code A player and doesn't get a lot of money. He's also not a top top level pro. Maybe you didn't know what I meant by typing something as ambiguous as "top top level pro". My post was a response to the other guys post, which said that every single pro gamer plays 100% in every single tournament he plays in. I'm sure you will agree with me that that is not the case. Since you're well aware of sc:bw and sc2, I'm sure you're the last person I would need to provide examples for, but: Jaedong @ WCG (tried in maybe 2 matches throughout the whole tournament), NesTea losing big time to a much lower level ZvZer. Obviously there are tons more examples but there's no reason to waste time looking them up and stating them. But yeah, Ryung doesn't get tons of money because he doesn't win big prize pool tournaments and he's not at the same level as the huge pro gamers and he lives in Korea. He needs the money. I'm not sure why you thought I thought otherwise. Also, should be obvious already but I wasn't saying that Ryung went easy on Sheth and lost for it. I was merely responding to that other guys post. Reason why it should be obvious: I said that Sheth was a better player than Ryung. Why would a lesser player go easy on a better player? That's a controversial statement obviously, but that's my thought on the matter, and that's why it should be obvious.
Not sure if I missed anything, but yeah, I'm going to keep posting on TL because I have useful things to say, plus this is a forum and my posts are forum posts. Forums are meant to pass around information and openly share and discuss opinions, and that's pretty much it. If anyone actually wants to know the truth or w/e, then they need to find it themselves.
On November 13 2011 12:33 Bd.Snake wrote: You can't take any of these games seriously because of lag and what not and it's not a excuse its just plainly unfair
Hmm such as Hero 7-0 NASL, SlayerS beating both Mouz and Liquid, and EG using Puma in every ace match they find?
The delay (it's not even lag) exists but it is nothing like you're making it out to be.
but it was enough for jinro to opt out of nasl season 1? oh snap :D
On November 13 2011 17:06 Leifish wrote:
On November 13 2011 13:07 Kennigit wrote:
On November 13 2011 12:11 Leifish wrote: I think it's clear that Ryung hasn't been looking too motivated in this series. I don't think it would be wise to view these games as an example of Ryung's capabilities.
What I would like to see is a Ryung vs. Sheth match in a competition where a substantial prize pool is on the line. This applies for all top-level match-ups for me.
Either way, big thanks for IPL for these fantastic events.
I guess $500 means nothing to you?
Honest opinion? I'm part of the 1%.
ask any gamer, any real gamer. its doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. point is, they could be playing for a peice of bubble gum, and anyone who is competitive enough to get to this level, would want to win. because they love to win.
Has Jinro performed up to par since his GSL glory days? That 1 tournament is the only reason he is famous today, and although he's a good player, he hasn't been successful in any major tournament since his ro8? showing in one of the earlier GSL's. Sorry but Jinro can't be compared to top level Korean players. The fact of the matter is that Ryung isn't that good. Sheth isn't awesome, but he is better than Ryung. Period.
2nd part. Ask any gamer, any real gamer. It doesn't matter whether you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. But players don't play their best unless they are playing in a major tournament that they want to win for their own benefit. They are used to winning by now, and winning a small $500 prize pool (I'm very poor and would LOVE $500, but for the gamers who are actual pro gamers, $500 is nothing more than a week or 2's worth of outings) isn't worth giving it your all. You must be very new to eSports thinking top level players play even 75% at ALL events they play in. They'll only play 100% at 1-2 events per relatively long period of time. (in this case it would be during GSL and MLG, whenever they play those. And you can include other events like DreamHack and ROG/other international events that happen if you are talking about lesser pro players). Players like NesTea, and MVP will only play their best game during GSL and MLG.
The reason smaller tournaments (still big, but smaller in significance), such as the Chinese tournaments, the IPL, NASL, etc, are won by other players such as elfi, MKP, IdrA, SaSe, HuK, etc, are because the players that are better than them either don't play or don't give it their all. Sure those players are good (elfi MKP and IdrA are fkin awesome), but they aren't as good as MVP, NesTea.
GSL gives you time to prepare for your next opponent. everything else (except NASL) isnt.
this is like NBA finals. lebron is (supposed to be) the best player, but dirk and the mavs beat the crap out of the "big 3", and are the NBA champions. shouldnt matter whos supposed to be better, whoever won, won.
Yeah, GSL is a league, so is NASL. MLG and other tournaments, are tournaments or tournament series. Naturally, you have time in between to prepare for your games during league play, and you don't during tournaments. But as for the NBA... Yeah Lebron is an awesome player, but he's not an 5 man team. The Mavs were even more than a 5 man team. Of course the Mavs would beat Lebron, that goes without saying. The better team won, and that is why they are better, and that is why it matters who is better. Upsets happen, but they are upsets. Lebron getting a ring would have been an upset.
EPT
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Liquid`Sheth has earned the "First Blood" achievement by knocking off White-Ra in Fight Club 1, but will have his hands full with SlayerS`Ryung, a gentlemen you may recognize from the GSL and GSTL tournaments! He also just earned himself a free trip to the IPL 4 UK Qualifier on November 18th to compete for a $20,000 prize pool and a qualifying spot in the upcoming IPL 4 tournament! We'll see if Sheth can keep up!![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xizd1.jpg)
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I opened the spoiler tag hoping to see that it would at least be close, but I am glad it wasn't.
