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Watch how you approach the topic of match fixing. You can speculate, saying "I'm not so sure about the finals, something doesn't sit right with me," but if you are going to outright accuse players of match fixing you need something more than your word.
TL takes match fixing/abuse seriously and as such there is a burden a proof when you are accusing players.
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On October 23 2011 10:03 Pr0wler wrote:
Are you guys serious ? Nestea made 27 broodlords without support vs ghost and vikings... and you found imbalance here ? 17 ghosts are SUPPOSE to kill 27 broodlords... Just like banelings kill marines. With 10k in the bank Nestea could easily remax 2 times with ling/baneling and simply kill everything. Terran can't reproduce that fast.
17 ghost are supposed to kill 27 broodlords ????
Have you even looked at the supply/cost of the units ? Just say that terran is supposed to win.
Nestea had support, he had infestors and a couple of corruptors, but ghost counter that too.
The main problem is Nestead didn't had dectectoin. I suppose the overseers were sniped.
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What's with all the bitching?
So what if MVP and Nestea didn't play a "serious" final? I mean, you guys DID enjoy it, right?
And why should people care as to what MVP does with the money? LOL
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On October 23 2011 10:05 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:02 Micket wrote:On October 23 2011 09:56 Angra wrote:On October 23 2011 09:54 scarper65 wrote:
People complain about ghosts countering tier3, but if you realize this than why continue going tier 3? because dude tier 3 is supposed to hard counter every tier below it!!!!!11 and if not then it's imbalanced!!!! Because Zerg Lair tech cannot touch maxed marine tank. Adding ghosts into the mix only makes it harder for ling bling because ghosts are fearsome fighting units. When Zerg loses for going lair tech all game, people say 'lol needed infestor brood lord. When Zerg techs to Hive and Terran reacts, people go 'make lingoes nooooooob). What people should see is that a 200/200 heavy gas beating Z at 200/200 any setup can be balanced. A 200/200 Mech T vs 200/200 Z in BW Terran would destroy Z. In SC2 you need to control T army size and gas income.
Hmmm except that you're wrong. I think that 27bl/6infestors cost way more gas than any terran/protoss composition.
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Least I can hear Foo Fighters from the RTS stream I think.... So tempted to buy a ticket just to watch the Foo.... Ah well... I'll just wait for the VoDs and watch them later like I did with Tenacious D.
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I think they are doing the real award ceremony at the closing ceremony in main stage now.
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On October 23 2011 10:06 Azarkon wrote:
Can't help but think that IdrA vs. Bomber was more exciting and displayed higher levels of skill from both players than Nestea vs.MVP. Blizzard maps perhaps. I mean, MVP played great after getting demolished by Nestea's prepared build orders, but Nestea just seemed outclassed after his BO wins.
Yes, his infestor-ling seemed to be very anti-Mvp. The roach-ling all-in was expected on close positions, I don't think he prepared it. And the 3rd game he won, I have no idea why Mvp had such a small army, but it didn't seem like NesTea did anything special.
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On October 23 2011 10:01 taLbuk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:00 Paperplane wrote:
Yes! Snutz lost! Most annoying kid ever, he keeps screaming and screaming. yeah he kinda got screwed out of 1st place blizzcon last year though, remmeber how they gave CoL the check and had the finals ceremony only to make them replay 3rd game 30 mins later which they lost forcing them to play another bo5 which they lost 5th game? lol was so stupid
Yeah that was pretty sad. However barely clawing the semifinal spot 3-2 over DNAW after being down 0-2 in underwhelming fashion, and then going "they didn't outplay us or anything at all in our first two matches" in the winning interview is pretty lame. Won't argue that they are skilled, though go read AJ forums now, it's a lolfest because they lost to a hunter team on dalaran arena.
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Okay, I seriously don't see how people are claiming this game was a) bad, b) fixed. You have a game where the top pros are basically executing a dance of strategies and counters for 40 minutes and you claim the game was rigged because one of them came up on top?
To address the most common points:
1) Why didn't Nestea just make spines everywhere?
He did, MVP just picked them out one by one. You're so focused on Nestea "donating" Brood Lords, you're seemingly forgetting about the dozen or so drops MVP threw away before he actually started chipping into the zerg empire.
2) Why did Nestea just attack with mass Brood Lords?
He was probably actually counting on overpowering the ghost army - if he managed to kill those, he could basically demolish MVP's entire ground defense since remaking the ghosts would take such a huge amount of time. It might've worked, too, if not for the 15 or so vikings. There are only so many snipes the ghosts have energy for.
3) Why the doomdrop?
A lot of people are contradicting themselves here. First you say Nestea was stupid for not trading armies, then you criticize the doomdrop - for Nestea, this was probably the perceived most cost-efficient way of trading armies. He probably didn't take into consideration how quickly his overlords would get sniped.
4) Why not just make a ton of lings and throw them at the ghosts?
Because MVP had sensor towers and the ghosts were behind a nice line of PFs and siege tanks. Reportedly, mass lings don't do too well vs. either.
5) Why not just wait, bank minerals, save larvas and prepare for the terran attack?
That's exactly what Nestea tried to do. For quite a long time, he succeeded - he repelled all the drops and managed to defend the bottom expo. The problem is, once he let some drops do damage, his entire defense began to unravel due to the multitasking demands.
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On October 23 2011 10:06 Butterednuts wrote:
That last game seemed super fake. Way too many novice mistakes made. Maybe NesTea was just cracking up under the pressure and maybe MVP just wanted it more, but I just had a weird feeling watching that game.
this...
I don't wanna say the game is fixes.
But if you just take a look at the decision making the last 15-20 minutes from Nestea a random gold player would probably have done a better job.
I hope this isn't fixed and there is another reason for his play, but it wasn't normal that's for sure.
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its pathetic that everyone is complaining about the game being set etc. Why the fuck would nestea throw the game? And is it really that wierd for even a pro to leave a couple of units in some overlords after playing for like 10 hours?
and how the fuck are you going to deal with 20 full mana ghosts, siege tanks, and whole bunch of marines? MVP's army size was 50 food larger because he had mules.. and having 27 broodlords =
108 supply.. Ofcourse hes not gonna have 40 roaches supporting it, because thats mathematically impossible...
People honestly always seem to want to find the evil in everything, why cant everyone just shut up and enjoy a good game?
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On October 23 2011 09:45 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 09:41 wxwx wrote:On October 23 2011 09:39 Benjef wrote:On October 23 2011 09:37 Tiazi wrote:
I smell a money split.
Nestea played ridiculous.. Wouldn't suprise me. That last game was show matchy. Either way sick game :D. I'm just dissapointed MVP left the stage so fast lost his chance for all the cheers as most people left QQ Nestea came into the game with a 1-0 advantage in sets. He'd have to be really nice or really unconfident to accept a prize split. They're on the same team. They probably split it something like 60/40 or 65/35 or something (pre-arranged before they even played). It would be in the best interest of both. There's nothing else to it, and it's not a bad thing. All it does is even out the prize pool, and it happens all the time when players on the same team (and of the same caliber) meet up in a tournament.
Can you back this up with facts and confessions from the players? Not just TT1 and Fenix cause we know how that worked out. Why say "...happens all the time..." but not have a link to a source.
Seriously people get off their backs, it was an amazing series and very enjoyable to watch. People just need to learn to enjoy something rather than immediately looking for explanations for what went wrong, same thing happened last night when MMA won, people were right into making excuses and taking everything away from MMA's win. Sometimes you just have to wonder how many people in this community keep their tin foil hats on the desk next to them just incase.
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On October 23 2011 10:06 xCenasfu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:03 Pr0wler wrote:
Are you guys serious ? Nestea made 27 broodlords without support vs ghost and vikings... and you found imbalance here ? 17 ghosts are SUPPOSE to kill 27 broodlords... Just like banelings kill marines. With 10k in the bank Nestea could easily remax 2 times with ling/baneling and simply kill anything. Terran can't reproduce that fast. bs.. Ghosts are supposed to be strong against: * High Templar * Raven * Infestor Theyre not supposed to be killing t3 units with impunity
so then how is terran supposed to beat late game zerg? ghosts are the only answer.
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On October 23 2011 10:07 slicknav wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:06 xCenasfu wrote:On October 23 2011 10:03 Pr0wler wrote:
Are you guys serious ? Nestea made 27 broodlords without support vs ghost and vikings... and you found imbalance here ? 17 ghosts are SUPPOSE to kill 27 broodlords... Just like banelings kill marines. With 10k in the bank Nestea could easily remax 2 times with ling/baneling and simply kill anything. Terran can't reproduce that fast. bs.. Ghosts are supposed to be strong against: * High Templar * Raven * Infestor Theyre not supposed to be killing t3 units with impunity please explain why ghosts are strong against ravens?
Raven with no energy is dead supply. Those 3 units are the units that don't have any normal attack and do absolutely zero without energy (although HT isn't 100% useless).
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give it up for MVP from south carolin... KOREA!
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MVP from south caroline LOOOOL
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On October 23 2011 10:06 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 10:03 Pr0wler wrote:
Are you guys serious ? Nestea made 27 broodlords without support vs ghost and vikings... and you found imbalance here ? 17 ghosts are SUPPOSE to kill 27 broodlords... Just like banelings kill marines. With 10k in the bank Nestea could easily remax 2 times with ling/baneling and simply kill everything. Terran can't reproduce that fast. You would be right except larva. To remax 2 times with ling/bling you would need over 300 larva...
But the thing is, Nestea was floating 10-15k mins and was fully capable of dropping 5 macro hatches with queens and all he'd be spending is 2250mins for that many more larva. His production could have been so much better and allowed him to at least remax once before MVP would be able to do anything
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On October 23 2011 10:07 StarcraftGuy4U wrote:Poll: Was that final match "rigged"?The fix was in (54) 61% They both played legitimately (28) 31% I'm not sure (7) 8% 89 total votes Your vote: Was that final match "rigged"? (Vote): The fix was in
(Vote): They both played legitimately
(Vote): I'm not sure
I just want to see what the consensus is, personally I wanted Nestea to win so at first I was mad when he started losing, but after the fourth or fifth nuke, the 14k/4k in the bank, the drop where he didn't even unload all his units and then suicided the overlords... That's when I started thinking it was a showmatch. I'm not sure how many people watch tournaments besides Blizzcon (I'd hope on TLnet that most of you watch a lot of tournaments) but have you EVER seen Nestea do a lategame like that? That's not just him playing beneath his level, that's like LeBron James getting dunked on by a middleschooler because he lifted the kid up to the hoop. He saw the ghost composition and he built 100% broodlords and then a-moved them in. Also, MVP who pushed aggressively EVERY game took out alllllll those overlords and units in the drop, he's one of the best in the world, he knew where that left Nestea (supply blocked with little or no army) and does he push? No, he waits nicely for the brood lords to finish so they can have a grand finals showmatch battle in the middle of the map. That's my opinion on the subject, just way too many fishy plays by both players.
Someone already had a poll like this earlier, check page 290. Result was mostly yes. It is something pro players try very very hard not to talk about.
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mvp from south carolina won!!
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This game was so rigged it isn't even funny. Why does he stay on 100 drones with 16K minerals and 7K gas? Why doesn't he make 20 hatcheries? Why does he get supply blocked for 5 minutes (omfg)
He could've a-moved into MVP with a 200/200 army like 5 times just remaking it over and over again but noooooo. He chooses to go in with broodlords only against vikings and ghosts. So fucking dumb can't believe you people are buying this as a legit game.
User was temp banned for this post.
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EPT
