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On September 21 2011 21:25 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:24 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:2:50 1 rax expand from asd, virus goes late gas. 4:00 Virus throws down his expand getting a factory afterward. asd throws up both gasses after CC and gets factory shortly after. 6:40 BF upgrade on the way for Virus. Both players getting starport and scan each other at the same time. asd getting tanks. 7:40 BFH drop from Virus gets spotted and thwarted by asd's marine tank. Both players look to be going heavy mech. 9:00BFH drop gets barely spotted by a viking, tries to go in for a land but superb marine micro is able to pick off the medivac before they get down. asd pushing into the natural of Virus, almost losing a tank. BFH get in asd natural and get a few kills. Worker count even. 11:30 Armory and CC almost complete for Virus. asd getting stim concussive and +1 weapons. Virus harassing with viking landing.
13:10 asd committing to bio mech while virus going for pure mech. Virus 3rd comes online, asd taking his expansion toward the middle.
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On September 21 2011 21:25 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:22 kotlok wrote:On September 21 2011 21:08 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 21:06 Tenox wrote:On September 21 2011 20:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 -y0shi- wrote:On September 21 2011 20:49 -y0shi- wrote:
Could any1 tell me what happened in the huk game? I thought it started 20 minutes ago? How can it be over already? Anyone? Please? 1 Base Marine/Tank push rolled 3 Gate Robo Since he's provided subtly biased account of events A, I will provide subtly biased account of events B: 1 Base Zealot/Stalker/Immortal was mismicroed against 3 Rax Fact How can I be biased towards Protoss? I am Terran. And what happened was Marine/Tank rolled 3 Gate Robo and for me thats perfectly fine. Marines are high DPS, low HP units that need to get countered by splash damage. If its through own tanks (aka enough zealots and good force fields so Terran has actually to focus fire with tanks) or with colossus OR overwhelming forces. Huk had neither and made mistakes so he lost the game. :/ Really people should start thinking before posting. Well your analysis is slightly incorrect, there was never a big enough window of time during the game where he could get out colossi safely, not even after he defended the first all-in...Even if he did another build it still wouldn't be possible vs these typ of all-ins. I didn't say he needed a Colossus that game, I did name the counters to many marines. He didn't bring any of them or didn't control well enough, so he lost. Not saying its not easy to execute and strong for Terran, but calling it imbalanced or completely unbeatable is untrue. The problem with protoss splash is (like MC already mentioned), that it is too far in tech: t4 (gate, Core, Robo, Bay) (gate, core, council, archives) The other races can get splash much earlier: helions + banelings are t2 But I am with you when saying, that you cant justify every PvT loss with "terran OP". Thats not true because there are a lot skilled terrans out there. But I think we come together when saying that in general protoss lacks behind the other 2 races atm. You're forgetting the easiest to access Protoss splash against Marine/Siege Tank. + Show Spoiler +
Have you ever seen zealot charge work well against 1-1-1?
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I wonder if there would be such massive outcry if it was MKP doing such all-ins (2x) to beat Huk.
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On September 21 2011 21:26 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
sick macro from virus. clearly code s material
no no, it's okay to float in TvT, he's starting to saveup for battlecruisers already.
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On September 21 2011 21:25 Darkong wrote:
Seeing as Terminus now has rocks at the third base does that mean Blizzard will finally allow it into the map pool? (still don't understand their rock fetish but, there you go)
personally i feel that rocks are holding back sc2.
they are a cope out way for blizzard to dictate the pace of a match on certain maps.
however they are a fake way of balancing and sc2 wont get more refined until they are removed.
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On September 21 2011 21:26 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:25 ondik wrote:On September 21 2011 21:18 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 21:15 tomatriedes wrote:On September 21 2011 21:08 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 21:06 Tenox wrote:On September 21 2011 20:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 -y0shi- wrote:
[quote]
Anyone? Please? 1 Base Marine/Tank push rolled 3 Gate Robo Since he's provided subtly biased account of events A, I will provide subtly biased account of events B: 1 Base Zealot/Stalker/Immortal was mismicroed against 3 Rax Fact How can I be biased towards Protoss? I am Terran. And what happened was Marine/Tank rolled 3 Gate Robo and for me thats perfectly fine. Marines are high DPS, low HP units that need to get countered by splash damage. If its through own tanks (aka enough zealots and good force fields so Terran has actually to focus fire with tanks) or with colossus OR overwhelming forces. Huk had neither and made mistakes so he lost the game. :/ Really people should start thinking before posting. Well your analysis is slightly incorrect, there was never a big enough window of time during the game where he could get out colossi safely, not even after he defended the first all-in...Even if he did another build it still wouldn't be possible vs these typ of all-ins. I didn't say he needed a Colossus that game, I did name the counters to many marines. He didn't bring any of them or didn't control well enough, so he lost. Not saying its not easy to execute and strong for Terran, but calling it imbalanced or completely unbeatable is untrue. That asd guy even though playing against not the best Zerg (no offence to Zenio) is really good. Strong macro, continues to expand, good drops etc. Something doesn't have to be 'completely unbeatable' to be imbalanced. If it is far easier to execute than to defend that in itself is a problem. VR all-ins were never completely unbeatable either yet they were nerfed. But yeah, even if there no were no toss left in code S or A people like you would still be claiming there's no problem. But "people like me" would still play and work on the game instead of wasting time complaining. interesting, I remember you being warned/banned few months ago for whinning/raging how bad terran is. Do I remember wrong? I got warned and I still did play and work on my game :-)!
So basically you're a hypocrite.
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On September 21 2011 21:25 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:23 tomatriedes wrote:On September 21 2011 21:18 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 21:15 tomatriedes wrote:On September 21 2011 21:08 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 21:06 Tenox wrote:On September 21 2011 20:57 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:55 FallDownMarigold wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 mTw|NarutO wrote:On September 21 2011 20:52 -y0shi- wrote:
[quote]
Anyone? Please? 1 Base Marine/Tank push rolled 3 Gate Robo Since he's provided subtly biased account of events A, I will provide subtly biased account of events B: 1 Base Zealot/Stalker/Immortal was mismicroed against 3 Rax Fact How can I be biased towards Protoss? I am Terran. And what happened was Marine/Tank rolled 3 Gate Robo and for me thats perfectly fine. Marines are high DPS, low HP units that need to get countered by splash damage. If its through own tanks (aka enough zealots and good force fields so Terran has actually to focus fire with tanks) or with colossus OR overwhelming forces. Huk had neither and made mistakes so he lost the game. :/ Really people should start thinking before posting. Well your analysis is slightly incorrect, there was never a big enough window of time during the game where he could get out colossi safely, not even after he defended the first all-in...Even if he did another build it still wouldn't be possible vs these typ of all-ins. I didn't say he needed a Colossus that game, I did name the counters to many marines. He didn't bring any of them or didn't control well enough, so he lost. Not saying its not easy to execute and strong for Terran, but calling it imbalanced or completely unbeatable is untrue. That asd guy even though playing against not the best Zerg (no offence to Zenio) is really good. Strong macro, continues to expand, good drops etc. Something doesn't have to be 'completely unbeatable' to be imbalanced. If it is far easier to execute than to defend that in itself is a problem. VR all-ins were never completely unbeatable either yet they were nerfed. But yeah, even if there no were no toss left in code S or A people like you would still be claiming there's no problem. I strongly disagree. In Broodwar there was Protoss Bulldog against Terran fast expansion. It was 3 gates + a robotics for shuttle to drop zealots on the high ground. It was INSANELY hard to defend and very basic to execute for a good player. Ofcourse I agree with you, that the 1-1-1 or any variation of the build is 'easy' but not as easy to execute as a lot of people might think. Ofcourse its still easier than the defence (far easier I'd even say). The thing is, that there is NOTHING TO NERF. Marines are not overpowered in itself, neither are tanks, medivacs or banshees. The combination of all those things make it very hard for Protoss. Barracks build time got nerfed and immortal range got buffed, I think this will lead to a more solid defence which could help out a lot, we will see. But "people like me" would still play and work on the game instead of wasting time complaining. BS. If Bulldog was as good as 1-1-1 is now pro BW toss players would have used it a lot more. And the last part is easy to say as a terran. Even pro terrans like Polt and MVP can admit there is something wrong, but go ahead and keep advocating for your race. It's pretty obvious how biased you are. They admit the combination is wrong and I agree, but its not solved by nerfing the individual units. MVP also said he wouldn't use it, because its overpowered and... wait. What did he do to HuK? A variation of it, IN EVERY GAME. And I don't know what level you are on in Broodwar, but Bulldog was definately a good build if executed well (aka do not let your opponent scout everything-_-)
oh cmon, they admitted that terran in general is too good at the moment, not 1/1/1 specifically
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On September 21 2011 21:26 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:22 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Here is how boring the first 9 minutes of a TvT is. Tastosis have not talked about the game once and have not missed a single thing because nothing has happened Lol what? TvT has one of the most action packed harass in the early game.
And in most of the TvTs so far nothing happens for 8+ minutes. Nada was the only guy to do something wacky quickly
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On September 21 2011 21:26 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
sick macro from virus. clearly code s material
Yeah, makes me really appreciate players like MVP or TOP. So sad that such a player stays in Code S.
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On September 21 2011 21:26 CptGrackSparrow wrote:i missed the second match did + Show Spoiler +
yes
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On September 21 2011 21:23 Darneck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:21 wklbishop wrote:On September 21 2011 21:17 Darneck wrote:On September 21 2011 21:16 Maghetti wrote:
Artosis still talking about expansions being weak vs 1/1/1... Pretty much everything is weak against it's so it's almost even pointless to discuss what is less weak. A Nexus first actually defeats the 1-1-1 due to the timings of when and how much units come out when the actual push hits, but it's easily scoutable and the terran can always decide not to 1-1-1 when they see it. Usually the terran sees it and still decides to just go and crush it, and this wasn't even a 1-1-1 and an expansion would have been horrible against that marine tank push.
Yeah... 1g expo is good against 1-1-1, but instant lose against marine tank push. It's harder than super ghouls and ghost on snes :-/
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On September 21 2011 21:26 Demonace34 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:25 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:24 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:22 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:21 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:20 Demonace34 wrote:On September 21 2011 21:19 Demonace34 wrote:2:50 1 rax expand from asd, virus goes late gas. 4:00 Virus throws down his expand getting a factory afterward. asd throws up both gasses after CC and gets factory shortly after. 6:40 BF upgrade on the way for Virus. Both players getting starport and scan each other at the same time. asd getting tanks. 7:40 BFH drop from Virus gets spotted and thwarted by asd's marine tank. Both players look to be going heavy mech. 9:00BFH drop gets barely spotted by a viking, tries to go in for a land but superb marine micro is able to pick off the medivac before they get down. asd pushing into the natural of Virus, almost losing a tank. BFH get in asd natural and get a few kills. Worker count even. 11:30 Armory and CC almost complete for Virus. asd getting stim concussive and +1 weapons. Virus harassing with viking landing. 13:10 asd committing to bio mech while virus going for pure mech. Virus 3rd comes online, asd taking his expansion toward the middle.
15:00 BFH drop coming from virus as asd is clearing the rocks, asd easily intercepts the drop. asd taking his 4th at 11 o clock.
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On September 21 2011 21:26 Asha` wrote:http://whitecosmos.tumblr.com/post/10478703790/nestea-on-his-game-vs-mmaShow nested quote +Nestea, on his game vs MMA
Question:
How was your first game against MMA?
Answer:
MMA uses Medivac a lot normally. I don't normally play with the timer on, but this time I turned on the timer while practicing. I measured my opponent's harass timing as I played. I prepared thinking if I could stop the medivacs I would be able to win.
Oh god. Nestea with the timer on.
GG EVERYONE!
Actually it's pretty sick to think about the fact that he was running on I guess timings either in relation to himself, or just counting in his head or whatever you do with 10,256 IQ.
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On September 21 2011 21:20 Alric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2011 21:16 Maghetti wrote:
Artosis still talking about expansions being weak vs 1/1/1... Absolutely true. That first push from Virus would have completely destroyed an expansion, especially on that map.
Virus didn't do a 1-1-1, he did a 3-rax/1-fact Marine/Tank push. Completely different timing.
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On September 21 2011 21:26 Elurie wrote:
I wonder if there would be such massive outcry if it was MKP doing such all-ins (2x) to beat Huk.
Judging by the amount of people hating on MKP in the LR-thread yesterday... definitely 
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Dammit asd, why are you going Bio.. TT_TT
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Virus is completely lost in TvT
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I am at work so please take this post with a pinch of salt.. (not seen game)
i am highish masters and have faced both the 3rax marine tank and the 1-1-1 build and the problem i find is from the time you see a bunker (i assume he made a bunker and huk scouted it) from the time until you get an observer out you actually have no idea what form of 1 base all in is comming,
I have actually faced the 3rax marine tank build 3-4 times on ladder and lost every time because ive been preparing for a 1-1-1 and by the time ive seen the 3rax etc its too late to get collosus and the first push just crushes me, ive actually had a game where i got the collsus but as other users have stated the range 6 collosus doesnt save you vs heavy marine with tanks, the tanks can focus the collosus and its basically gg from there..
I feel the second you scout this builld with an observer you need to trap them in there base with sentrys otherwise your as good as dead..
Like i said at the start i have NOT seen the game so please just take this as my personnal pov in relation to the two builds people have talked about and not specifics of the game.
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EPT
