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Have fun everyone and enjoy todays games! <3
~Nyovne |
On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true
This.
The population of players is too big for that to happen. Maybe with a smaller sample size, maybe, but definitely not with this much people.
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Canada13404 Posts
On September 09 2011 09:46 Alejandrisha wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm going to continue to subscribe, either. I usually just watch the protoss games unless I'm referred to a really good tvt/tvz/zvz set (usually zvt) and lately I feel like I've been going at a rate at about 1 dollar per bo3 and half of the time it's a 1/1/1 that just demolishes the guy and looks ridiculous. It kind of sucks :/
A decent number of Toss in code A which is what ill be watching for the next month it looks like
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On September 09 2011 09:50 K3Nyy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true This. The population of players is too big for that to happen. Maybe with a smaller sample size, maybe, but definitely not with this much people.
The flaw with this ridiculous and terrible argument is that the only you really SEE these players is when they have gotten up through code B and made a great run in the qualifiers... winning games. Not playing extremely well or being good players, but winning games. So you only see players that have actually won games.. I hate when these hipsters get on the computer start talking about they followed this guy all the way from when he started and he was playing terran and owning no no no. You saw him because he won games to be put on a stage where you could see him... playing terran.
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On September 09 2011 09:46 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won. Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho? I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2. In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL. The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well. Too much talking for a guy who doesn't know who SangHo is and thinks Anypro and HongUn are considered top 5 protoss.
Anypro and Hongun are top 5 in win rates of GSL Protoss. Sangho is Code B.
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today we spell redemption...marinekingprime.
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Damn! JYP was so close to getting into Code S
oh well i'm sure he'll get there soon
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On September 09 2011 10:06 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:46 0ne wrote:On September 09 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won. Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho? I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2. In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL. The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well. Too much talking for a guy who doesn't know who SangHo is and thinks Anypro and HongUn are considered top 5 protoss. Anypro and Hongun are top 5 in win rates of GSL Protoss. Sangho is Code B.
Sangho is Code B? What in holy hell are you talking about.
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/106_SangHo/games
There goes your credibility.
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On September 09 2011 10:06 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 09:46 0ne wrote:On September 09 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won. Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho? I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2. In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL. The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well. Too much talking for a guy who doesn't know who SangHo is and thinks Anypro and HongUn are considered top 5 protoss. Anypro and Hongun are top 5 in win rates of GSL Protoss. Sangho is Code B.
Sangho is code S (TSLKiller), Anypro is code B. Please do some research before posting
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On September 09 2011 10:14 0ne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 10:06 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 09:46 0ne wrote:On September 09 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won. Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho? I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2. In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL. The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well. Too much talking for a guy who doesn't know who SangHo is and thinks Anypro and HongUn are considered top 5 protoss. Anypro and Hongun are top 5 in win rates of GSL Protoss. Sangho is Code B. Sangho is code S (TSLKiller), Anypro is code B. Please do some research before posting
heh , also imo hung un has been slumping since people figure out his all in. its like toss cant win without some variation of void ray all in/timing attack
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San is also in Code B. But yes, I made a mistake about Sangho.
Everything I said is still valid though. Sangho lost in a PvP, not to imbalanced Zerg or Terran.
Or you can just be a condescending asshole. You know, that's a little easier than addressing my argument that of the protoss in the top 8 in win rates, besides MC and Alicia and Puzzle, they are all nowhere near the skill level of Polt or Losira.
I mean you're telling me that Hongun or Anypro, or even Killer, is on the same skill level as Losira, Nestea, MVP, Polt?
JYP is pretty good, he just broke into the GSL. He barely didn't make it into Code S after a tiebreaker in up/down against the likes of MKP.
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On September 09 2011 10:33 Belial88 wrote:
San is also in Code B. But yes, I made a mistake about Sangho.
Everything I said is still valid though. Sangho lost in a PvP, not to imbalanced Zerg or Terran.
Or you can just be a condescending asshole. You know, that's a little easier than addressing my argument that of the protoss in the top 8 in win rates, besides MC and Alicia and Puzzle, they are all nowhere near the skill level of Polt or Losira.
I mean you're telling me that Hongun or Anypro, or even Killer, is on the same skill level as Losira, Nestea, MVP, Polt?
JYP is pretty good, he just broke into the GSL. He barely didn't make it into Code S after a tiebreaker in up/down against the likes of MKP.
How do you explain Byun? Did he suddenly become a better player after switching from Protoss to Terran?
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On September 09 2011 10:33 Belial88 wrote:
San is also in Code B. But yes, I made a mistake about Sangho.
Everything I said is still valid though. Sangho lost in a PvP, not to imbalanced Zerg or Terran.
Or you can just be a condescending asshole. You know, that's a little easier than addressing my argument that of the protoss in the top 8 in win rates, besides MC and Alicia and Puzzle, they are all nowhere near the skill level of Polt or Losira.
I mean you're telling me that Hongun or Anypro, or even Killer, is on the same skill level as Losira, Nestea, MVP, Polt?
JYP is pretty good, he just broke into the GSL. He barely didn't make it into Code S after a tiebreaker in up/down against the likes of MKP.
Puzzle no where near the skill of Polt of Loira? The guy had games against Bomber/Puma in the ICCUP weeklies where he made them look completely silly.
Just because they aren't doing as well doesn't mean they aren't as skilled. The race on a whole is doing pretty awful atm.
How do you explain Byun? Did he suddenly become a better player after switching from Protoss to Terran?
Or GuineaPig, who despite choosing to main race as Protoss always had more success as Terran/Zerg
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On September 09 2011 10:33 Belial88 wrote:
San is also in Code B. But yes, I made a mistake about Sangho.
Everything I said is still valid though. Sangho lost in a PvP, not to imbalanced Zerg or Terran.
Or you can just be a condescending asshole. You know, that's a little easier than addressing my argument that of the protoss in the top 8 in win rates, besides MC and Alicia and Puzzle, they are all nowhere near the skill level of Polt or Losira.
I mean you're telling me that Hongun or Anypro, or even Killer, is on the same skill level as Losira, Nestea, MVP, Polt?
JYP is pretty good, he just broke into the GSL. He barely didn't make it into Code S after a tiebreaker in up/down against the likes of MKP.
LOL.
- Belial88 makes a factual mistake
- TL users Correct
- Belial88: "Or you can be a condescending asshole..."
o.o
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On September 09 2011 10:33 Belial88 wrote:
San is also in Code B. But yes, I made a mistake about Sangho.
Everything I said is still valid though. Sangho lost in a PvP, not to imbalanced Zerg or Terran.
Or you can just be a condescending asshole. You know, that's a little easier than addressing my argument that of the protoss in the top 8 in win rates, besides MC and Alicia and Puzzle, they are all nowhere near the skill level of Polt or Losira.
I mean you're telling me that Hongun or Anypro, or even Killer, is on the same skill level as Losira, Nestea, MVP, Polt?
JYP is pretty good, he just broke into the GSL. He barely didn't make it into Code S after a tiebreaker in up/down against the likes of MKP.
Yes, MKP did very nice 1-1-1 builds vs JYP to ensure victory.
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^ I said in my post that besides mc, alicia, and puzzle. I could say that Polt and Losira are clearly better players, but I won't.
Yes, the race is doing poorly. They are doing bad because of 111, and because FFE is now being 'countered', as well as stargate play being 'countered' by Zerg. It's largely a metagame issue. If Protoss stop going FFE and stargate against Zerg, they'll do better against Zerg. As for 111, maybe it's imba, I don't follow TvP, but I would definitely say it's too early to tell.
But a large reason the race is doing poorly is because there is a lot of bad P players who are going to where they deserve, out of Code S. Huk and MC are doing great, despite doing poorly in the Up/Down, they have been doing amazing in other tournaments. One tournament does not explain the whole picture, particularly when Protoss is doing amazingly in other tournaments (particularly these two who did 'poorly' this season despite getting to RO16 of the GSL).
And many Protoss are still retaining over 50% win rates, even Protoss as bad as Hongun and Inca.
GuineaPig plays Random, and isn't he in Code B? He struggles to even qualify for most GSLs. He just goes to show that if you can play well, you can do well, regardless of race (he's done just fine as P in his games, even winning some PvP).
Byun, he's a single player. Did he ever explain why he switched? Regardless, this is your proof that Protoss is UP?
It's not that Protoss is losing because roaches are OP, or infestors are OP. Protoss is just not doing well in the games against Zerg because Zerg knows how to take a fast third against FFE, and because Zerg is wrecking their DT/SG play. Almost every ZvP has been stargate forcused, and every time, Zerg gets a 10-20 supply lead and a third up in response.
TvP could be broken, but that's not a match-up I know much about. I just know that Zerg is destroying Protoss because they figured out how to beat FFE, and how to come out with a lead against stargate openings. I also know that Protoss are falling out in this GSL because a lot of them are just bad and are finally dropping to where they belong.
Many of the Protoss lost to Zerg who won in the metagame against their stargate and FFE. Some of the Protoss fell in PvP. A few lost against Terran, and they didn't lose to 111 or ghosts in those games. A few lost to 111, but it's not like every Protoss was knocked out because of infestors or 111.
Yes, MKP did very nice 1-1-1 builds vs JYP to ensure victory.
Is this a joke? JYP almost got into Code S after a tie breaker series in Up/Down, and MKP has been performing well in the GSL for a long time, whereas JYP has not even qualified for as many times MKP has been in the semifinals.
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On September 09 2011 10:52 Belial88 wrote:^ I said in my post that besides mc, alicia, and puzzle. I could say that Polt and Losira are clearly better players, but I won't. Yes, the race is doing poorly. They are doing bad because of 111, and because FFE is now being 'countered', as well as stargate play being 'countered' by Zerg. It's largely a metagame issue. If Protoss stop going FFE and stargate against Zerg, they'll do better against Zerg. As for 111, maybe it's imba, I don't follow TvP, but I would definitely say it's too early to tell. But a large reason the race is doing poorly is because there is a lot of bad P players who are going to where they deserve, out of Code S. Huk and MC are doing great, despite doing poorly in the Up/Down, they have been doing amazing in other tournaments. One tournament does not explain the whole picture, particularly when Protoss is doing amazingly in other tournaments (particularly these two who did 'poorly' this season despite getting to RO16 of the GSL). And many Protoss are still retaining over 50% win rates, even Protoss as bad as Hongun and Inca. GuineaPig plays Random, and isn't he in Code B? He struggles to even qualify for most GSLs. He just goes to show that if you can play well, you can do well, regardless of race (he's done just fine as P in his games, even winning some PvP). Byun, he's a single player. Did he ever explain why he switched? Regardless, this is your proof that Protoss is UP? It's not that Protoss is losing because roaches are OP, or infestors are OP. Protoss is just not doing well in the games against Zerg because Zerg knows how to take a fast third against FFE, and because Zerg is wrecking their DT/SG play. Almost every ZvP has been stargate forcused, and every time, Zerg gets a 10-20 supply lead and a third up in response. TvP could be broken, but that's not a match-up I know much about. I just know that Zerg is destroying Protoss because they figured out how to beat FFE, and how to come out with a lead against stargate openings. I also know that Protoss are falling out in this GSL because a lot of them are just bad and are finally dropping to where they belong.Many of the Protoss lost to Zerg who won in the metagame against their stargate and FFE. Some of the Protoss fell in PvP. A few lost against Terran, and they didn't lose to 111 or ghosts in those games. A few lost to 111, but it's not like every Protoss was knocked out because of infestors or 111. Is this a joke? JYP almost got into Code S after a tie breaker series in Up/Down, and MKP has been performing well in the GSL for a long time, whereas JYP has not even qualified for as many times MKP has been in the semifinals.
A few things added up:
- this bolded section
- "who is sangho? sangho is code b." comment
- going apeshit and calling us condescending assholes for correcting you
- saying everything you say is valid despite factual mistakes
- saying TvP might be broken (but i dunno!) then defending 1-1-1 as a valid strategy
- "is this a joke?" comment (flattering but still reading comprehension fail)
- using JYP's # of qualifications as a measure of skill (see DRG (1), Puzzle (1), Puma(0))
= you talking about stuff you don't know and possibly don't understand, and doing it in a condescending and rude manner.
GL getting people to take what you say seriously. I certainly won't! OK Peace!
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My fellow Protoss, I have a brilliant plan! We shall abduct FruitDealer and force him to raceswitch to Protoss!
'Cause FruitDealer is magic.
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Here, let me sum it up for you:
- Didn't complain about a Protoss dropping out of Code S due to a PvP (sangho)
- Said you dont have to be a condescending asshole with your 'there goes your credibility' comment that ignored my points
- Saying 111 might be OP, but it's definitely too early to tell, and that not every TvP this season used 111
- JYP, a relative newcomer, losing to a 2 time code s semifinalist and highly performing player in MKP in an extremely close tiebreaker in the up and down matches
- Saying JYP losing to MKP is not the best way to say "Protoss is broken"
It's not hard to understand. The best Protoss players, besides MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle, are all really, really bad, and deserve to be in Code A, if not Code B. MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle, are all performing very well, only falling in PvP, against each other, or doing very well in this tournament except losing in the up/down barely.
You complain that all the Protoss is knocked out of the GSL and that's a sign of problems, I say no, it's because of dramatic shifts in the metagame where Zerg is suddenly owning and coming out ahead of what Protoss thought was safe (stargate, DT, FFE), 111, and because so many of them are just bad. MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle are not doing bad by any means, and if you are trying to say that Hongun, San, Anypro, Inca, are anywhere near as good as Polt, TOP, Nada, Losira, Leenock, then your delusional.
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On September 09 2011 03:21 andrea20 wrote:
MarineKing:
2-2 in group play
2-0 in playoffs
SECOND in group play as a result
It's his destiny, he can't avoid the number two! YellOw must be cackling right now! Mwahahaha!
Genius point, he was even on Project A recently hearing YellOw's story about 2's and 2-22, ect.
Man it's been rough rooting for MKP recently, he just doesn't do things the easy way does he?
But that's why we love him, even his series against Kyrix was a crazy come-back.
JYP's was pretty impressive, but still unpolished. His unit control is so good (when he had Taeja on the ropes with the Colo / WP action and the storm dropping against Violet was really impressive), but sometimes his decision making isn't the greatest (not warping in units against Tester because he didn't feel like walking them around the ledge...).
His PvP's really good too and that's always my rule of thumb for good players. Definitely someone to keep an eye on, especially whenever Protoss finally comes out of the dark ages (whether by patch or whatever).
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 09 2011 11:24 Belial88 wrote:
Here, let me sum it up for you:
- Didn't complain about a Protoss dropping out of Code S due to a PvP (sangho)
- Said you dont have to be a condescending asshole with your 'there goes your credibility' comment that ignored my points
- Saying 111 might be OP, but it's definitely too early to tell, and that not every TvP this season used 111
- JYP, a relative newcomer, losing to a 2 time code s semifinalist and highly performing player in MKP in an extremely close tiebreaker in the up and down matches
- Saying JYP losing to MKP is not the best way to say "Protoss is broken"
It's not hard to understand. The best Protoss players, besides MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle, are all really, really bad, and deserve to be in Code A, if not Code B. MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle, are all performing very well, only falling in PvP, against each other, or doing very well in this tournament except losing in the up/down barely.
You complain that all the Protoss is knocked out of the GSL and that's a sign of problems, I say no, it's because of dramatic shifts in the metagame where Zerg is suddenly owning and coming out ahead of what Protoss thought was safe (stargate, DT, FFE), 111, and because so many of them are just bad. MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle are not doing bad by any means, and if you are trying to say that Hongun, San, Anypro, Inca, are anywhere near as good as Polt, TOP, Nada, Losira, Leenock, then your delusional.
Saying the only protoss players that aren't in Code S are just bad, and that all 20 of the terrans in Code S are better is a ridiculous assertion with no evidence to support it.
Saying that someone is delusional for thinking Hongun, San, Anypro, and Inca are anywhere near as good as Polt, TOP, Nada, Losira, Leenock is not a valid argument.
The best indications of balance are winning percentages at the highest level of play. We got a low number of samples for August, so there are not many conclusions to be drawn yet. We have to wait for a high sample size before making judgements.
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EPT
