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Have fun everyone and enjoy todays games! <3
~Nyovne |
On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT.
But now the question comes are they playing Terran because it gives them the edge over other races? Would they be as effective as non-terrans?
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On September 09 2011 06:01 usethis2 wrote:
Watched the last game (?) between JYP and MKP and I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about MKP being sloppy. Sure his build opening was 1-1-1'ish, but it wasn't an 1-1-1. (you know, build stuff, pack up and go with the SCVs) He opened with hellion drops then attacked the front with marines/tanks. He transistioned into expansion and banshees, doing tremendous damage yet again on JYP's mineral line.
For sure it was a devilish play abusing the flexibility of Terran tech and I felt for JYP, but wasn't anything remotely close to 1-1-1 all-in. If anything it was very similar to MVP's TvP style. (They practice together, not a surprise) And his unit control was flawless.
And the game between him and trickster was.. well, it was Trickster falling apart more than anything else but there was nothing cheesy or sloppy about MKP's play there.
Because apparently going a standard 1/1/1 expo build is now called a 1/1/1 all in.
because going 2 rax 1 fact build, is somehow 1/1/1 also (mvp vs huk LR thread).
because any build that a terran beats a protoss with, is going to be 1/1/1 unless it's something super crazy eco based like MVP's 3 CC 5 rax all marine build.
I think, it'd be fair, if we just called every build protoss does 4 gate, because hey, eventually the protoss players end up with 4 gates right? it must be a 4 gate. Same logic as all terran builds being called 1/1/1.
Sometimes the level of stupidity that spews from forums is discouraging. I just keep telling myself that these are just a vocal minority, and that the true majority simply have nothing to say on the matter because it's not worth their time. Awesome games last night, and i'm glad MKP made an amazing comeback to make it back into Code S. he is one of many terrans that constantly changes the meta game, and that is GOOD for sc2.
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what keyboard and mouse was MarineKing using?
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On September 09 2011 07:09 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 07:01 babylon wrote:
The last I checked, qxc doesn't have a winning record against MVP.
Whens the last time you checked? Theres only been one game of them televised (unless I'm mistaken), and qxc won it lol + Show Spoiler +not saying that qxc is necessarily better; just pointing out
I should probably have said "winning record that does not simply include one game." But thank you for correcting me, good sir! 
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On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true
Agree. Talking about Broodwar talent, Sangho will own almost all current terren players. but sad he choose protoss race.
1 more really good example: Bleach(Aka Byun) Byun was protoss player in GSL1~2 then switched to terren and he said "Protoss sux i need to play a better race to be competitive" i guess he is right and really smart lol
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On September 09 2011 05:49 bucckevin wrote:
GOM needs better casters. Freakin Moletrap didn't even know what was happening in the JYP/Taeja game but he couldn't stop blabbing about how much trouble Taeja was in. When JYP dropped the main and attacked the natural, Taeja simply moved the scvs in his main away and fended off the attack at the natural. The casters were going nuts, talking about how much damage JYP was doing, while JYP's zealots and immortal were only hitting the CC and supply depot...They show workers killed count and Taeja only lost like 7 during that attack, had a supply lead, and had his 3rd up and running already. Moletrap kept saying Taeja needed a third because JYP was getting his up after the attack but when you look at the mini map, Taeja is putting up his fourth....
Then we have butthurt protoss players who were listening to Moletrap coming in here talking about how JYP outplayed Taeja the whole game and still lost.
JYP definitely won several fights in that game, and I personally was also surprised that the drop in the main wasn't cleaned up as he attacked the front, it was clever play by JYP.
Taeja is a freaking beast though, his macro was just SO GOOD. Even with DT harass at his external bases he just didn't lose supply.
I agree with you though, and disagree with the people that say "JYP outplayed Taeja and still lost." That's just a ridiculous statement to make. Macro is a huge part of SC2, this isn't WC3 people. Taeja both outmacroed JYP *and* starved him out at the same time. JYP hung in there with clever engagements, but in the end Taeja's snipes on his economy won out.
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woo hoo! im so glad marineking did get to code S
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On September 09 2011 06:16 Robonord wrote:
Ahhh too many terrans! If it were up to me I would kick all these Ts out of Code S:
Keen
Virus
Happy
asd
Noblesse
aLive
Ensnare
jjakji
SuperNoVa
and replace them with some Ps and Zs. Alas, I don't control GOM... yet....
Keen, Virus, asd, Ensnare yes. Happy need to see more games, he's been *really* good at times. Noblesse and aLive are hit or miss. Jjakji and SuperNova though? Wth are you talking about. They're both beasts. Jjakji most of all. You need to watch more games of him.
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On September 09 2011 07:13 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:01 usethis2 wrote:
Watched the last game (?) between JYP and MKP and I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about MKP being sloppy. Sure his build opening was 1-1-1'ish, but it wasn't an 1-1-1. (you know, build stuff, pack up and go with the SCVs) He opened with hellion drops then attacked the front with marines/tanks. He transistioned into expansion and banshees, doing tremendous damage yet again on JYP's mineral line.
For sure it was a devilish play abusing the flexibility of Terran tech and I felt for JYP, but wasn't anything remotely close to 1-1-1 all-in. If anything it was very similar to MVP's TvP style. (They practice together, not a surprise) And his unit control was flawless.
And the game between him and trickster was.. well, it was Trickster falling apart more than anything else but there was nothing cheesy or sloppy about MKP's play there. Because apparently going a standard 1/1/1 expo build is now called a 1/1/1 all in. because going 2 rax 1 fact build, is somehow 1/1/1 also (mvp vs huk LR thread). because any build that a terran beats a protoss with, is going to be 1/1/1 unless it's something super crazy eco based like MVP's 3 CC 5 rax all marine build. I think, it'd be fair, if we just called every build protoss does 4 gate, because hey, eventually the protoss players end up with 4 gates right? it must be a 4 gate. Same logic as all terran builds being called 1/1/1. Sometimes the level of stupidity that spews from forums is discouraging. I just keep telling myself that these are just a vocal minority, and that the true majority simply have nothing to say on the matter because it's not worth their time. Awesome games last night, and i'm glad MKP made an amazing comeback to make it back into Code S. he is one of many terrans that constantly changes the meta game, and that is GOOD for sc2.
i think you are right.
i read lots of crap as well but just avoid posting because i know it will become a snowball effect, i think most people realized it and that's why you see a "majority" of negative comments.. just because i feel who really understands things better does not really wanna argue with random dudes over the net.
on a side note, the TL community is amazing, when KR terrans do a real 1-1-1 they all complain and shit ,when thorzain or someone they root for does it you see literally 20 pages of "GOGOGO YOU CAN MAKE IT! ! GO 1-1-1 !!" - and this just shows that the player they are rooting for goes beyond the BO/race - i wish they were coherent.. lol
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Canada13404 Posts
My vods arent loading properly in SQ or HQ. Anyone else having the same issues?
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Thank god MKP Made it back to code S I was scared reading the results even. Watching the games would've had me shitting my pants.
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On September 09 2011 08:19 sunman1g wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 07:13 Kazeyonoma wrote:On September 09 2011 06:01 usethis2 wrote:
Watched the last game (?) between JYP and MKP and I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about MKP being sloppy. Sure his build opening was 1-1-1'ish, but it wasn't an 1-1-1. (you know, build stuff, pack up and go with the SCVs) He opened with hellion drops then attacked the front with marines/tanks. He transistioned into expansion and banshees, doing tremendous damage yet again on JYP's mineral line.
For sure it was a devilish play abusing the flexibility of Terran tech and I felt for JYP, but wasn't anything remotely close to 1-1-1 all-in. If anything it was very similar to MVP's TvP style. (They practice together, not a surprise) And his unit control was flawless.
And the game between him and trickster was.. well, it was Trickster falling apart more than anything else but there was nothing cheesy or sloppy about MKP's play there. Because apparently going a standard 1/1/1 expo build is now called a 1/1/1 all in. because going 2 rax 1 fact build, is somehow 1/1/1 also (mvp vs huk LR thread). because any build that a terran beats a protoss with, is going to be 1/1/1 unless it's something super crazy eco based like MVP's 3 CC 5 rax all marine build. I think, it'd be fair, if we just called every build protoss does 4 gate, because hey, eventually the protoss players end up with 4 gates right? it must be a 4 gate. Same logic as all terran builds being called 1/1/1. Sometimes the level of stupidity that spews from forums is discouraging. I just keep telling myself that these are just a vocal minority, and that the true majority simply have nothing to say on the matter because it's not worth their time. Awesome games last night, and i'm glad MKP made an amazing comeback to make it back into Code S. he is one of many terrans that constantly changes the meta game, and that is GOOD for sc2. i think you are right. i read lots of crap as well but just avoid posting because i know it will become a snowball effect, i think most people realized it and that's why you see a "majority" of negative comments.. just because i feel who really understands things better does not really wanna argue with random dudes over the net. on a side note, the TL community is amazing, when KR terrans do a real 1-1-1 they all complain and shit ,when thorzain or someone they root for does it you see literally 20 pages of "GOGOGO YOU CAN MAKE IT! ! GO 1-1-1 !!" - and this just shows that the player they are rooting for goes beyond the BO/race - i wish they were coherent.. lol
Exactly. When HuK does a 4gate the entire website is backing him up but when Hongun 4gates MC then everyone is trash talking him for allining
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On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT.
I guess that makes FXOtheBest a top 5 terran...
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United States23455 Posts
On September 09 2011 03:55 HouseofFlyingDaggers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 03:44 gozima wrote:20  in code s next month? wtf. Could someone tell me how many  and  there are for code s next month as well? I don't fault GSL for the way code s is turning out, but I probably won't subscribe next month. Way too many . Terran definitely needs an overhaul. I have no idea how, but here's hoping Blizz can figure something out. :D 5 Protoss - HuK, Puzzle, HongUn, Genius and Killer 7 Zerg - DongRaeGu, LosirA, NesTea, Leenock, July, Zenio, CoCa 20 Terran - Polt, MVP, Keen, TOP, Ryung, MMA, Bomber, Virus, NaDa, Happy, asd, Clide, Noblesse, aLive, Ensnare, SuperNoVa, Jjakji, Teaja, MarineKing, Ganzi.
Slayers: 6 (MMA, Puzzle, Coca, Ganzi, Ryung, and Taeja)
oGs: 5 (Nada, TOP, Supernova, Ensnare, and Zenio)
IM: 4 (Losira, MVP, Nestea and Happy)
MVP: 4 (Keen, Noblesse, Genius and DongRaeGu)
Prime: 3 (Optimus, MarineKing and HongUn)
Startale: 3 (Bomber, July and Virus)
TSL: 3 (Clide, Alive, and Killer)
FXO: 2 (Leenock and asd)
NSHoSeo: 1 (Jjakji)
EG: 1 (Huk)
Slayers, before MMA won his spot into Code S, only had one Code S player and that was Alicia. Now after their recent signings, MLG win, Wildcard win, Code A win and Up-and-Down win, they have the most in the GSL without the guy who was their only Code S player two months ago.
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YEEEEEEEESS MKP, I almost lost hope. I am so glad he's not in Code A. Sad JYP didn't go up though, but not all that surprised that TaeJa got through.
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MAARRRIIIIINEEEEKINNNNNNG
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On September 09 2011 07:13 Kazeyonoma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:01 usethis2 wrote:
Watched the last game (?) between JYP and MKP and I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about MKP being sloppy. Sure his build opening was 1-1-1'ish, but it wasn't an 1-1-1. (you know, build stuff, pack up and go with the SCVs) He opened with hellion drops then attacked the front with marines/tanks. He transistioned into expansion and banshees, doing tremendous damage yet again on JYP's mineral line.
For sure it was a devilish play abusing the flexibility of Terran tech and I felt for JYP, but wasn't anything remotely close to 1-1-1 all-in. If anything it was very similar to MVP's TvP style. (They practice together, not a surprise) And his unit control was flawless.
And the game between him and trickster was.. well, it was Trickster falling apart more than anything else but there was nothing cheesy or sloppy about MKP's play there. Because apparently going a standard 1/1/1 expo build is now called a 1/1/1 all in. because going 2 rax 1 fact build, is somehow 1/1/1 also (mvp vs huk LR thread). because any build that a terran beats a protoss with, is going to be 1/1/1 unless it's something super crazy eco based like MVP's 3 CC 5 rax all marine build. I think, it'd be fair, if we just called every build protoss does 4 gate, because hey, eventually the protoss players end up with 4 gates right? it must be a 4 gate. Same logic as all terran builds being called 1/1/1. Sometimes the level of stupidity that spews from forums is discouraging. I just keep telling myself that these are just a vocal minority, and that the true majority simply have nothing to say on the matter because it's not worth their time. Awesome games last night, and i'm glad MKP made an amazing comeback to make it back into Code S. he is one of many terrans that constantly changes the meta game, and that is GOOD for sc2.
You guys are seriously delusional if you don't think MKP did that 1 base 1/1/1 attack that everyone's complaining about. He did a Hellion drop and Marine push before that, but the attack itself was exactly as advertised - Marine/Tank/Banshee. The fact that he was still ahead and could expand safely afterwards is another nice feature of the build. But calling it a "standard 1/1/1 expand"? Are you joking?
It's the same stupid crap, just with a more elaborate way of getting there. If he just kept attacking off 1 base, and then floated his OC to his natural after mining out his main, would that still be a non all-in expand build? Give me a break.
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On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true
I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won.
Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho?
I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2.
In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL.
The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well.
Protoss is doing fine,
But now the question comes are they playing Terran because it gives them the edge over other races? Would they be as effective as non-terrans?
If someone said that Terran was OP because they were more developed, I wouldn't argue. As the first race developed of 3, in a set of 3 games, I'm not surprised most top players would prefer Terran because they are just the most developed. But to directly answer your question, all the top Terrans played Terran in BW. I don't think any of the top BW pros play SC2 yet, but MC, MVP, Nestea were great BW players that are doing great now, regardless of race. Anypro, Hongun, San, Inca, these guys weren't great at BW, and they are horrible at SC2 compared to the other top players.
It's not so much that Protoss is a bad race, it's that it's full of bad players who've been able to last in the GSL for so long because of the low skill of all players with this new game. But it's about god damn time that San and Anypro fell to Code B, and Choya, Inca, Hongun are horrible players. When you look at it, the only people who really play Protoss at a top level are MC, Huk, Alicia, and Puzzle,a nd they are all doing just fine in tournament play.
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On September 09 2011 09:38 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 06:54 Loodah wrote:On September 09 2011 06:46 Belial88 wrote:
Not as many players play the other races. You can't tell me that one of the top 5 protoss, anypro, who loses to 6 pools, is on the same level as the other top 5 terrans like sc or polt. Zerg has been doing great this season, but in reality it's just nestea, losira, DRG, and leenock tearing it up, with the other zergs not doing great, ever.
Terran just attracted the best players, and naturally most people want to play terran, so most good players went there. I'm sure if nestea or SC played Protoss, they'd be the new MC, or if sc or bomber played Zerg they'd be pushing off nestea.
So quit the balance whine. It's going to be interesting next season whene very P/Z brings their a-game in vT. The argument that all the best players went to terran is ridiculous. People love to reference broodwar players coming to SC2.... But both Tester and Sangho were more talented than any of the B-teamers who chose terran like Bomber or Puma (even zergs like DRG and Nestea) - yet these guys can't find success (hint: because they are protoss) I think it's ridiculous to say "Terran has all the best players!" - it's simply not true I didn't say Terran has all the best players. MC is still tearing it up, he just lost in a TvP to a good player. Alicia is doing well too, but his opponent was extremely good too, if not more successful (leenock) so far in SC2, handled his opening perfectly (dt), and then did a BO win (mass blink stalkers vs infestors). If it was a BO3, Alicia could have very well won. Tester has had horrible performance in SC2, and who is sangho? I wasn't talking about BW at all - apparently some people just love to bring up discussions that no one else is having. What I'm saying is, regardless of BW, the better players just don't play Protoss. Some, like MVP or Nestea, didn't play Protoss in BW and stuck with their BW race. Others, like SC or Polt or Top, are just really good at SC2. In some cases, Protoss players like Naniwa, Huk, MC, are doing extremely well in tournaments, but maybe didn't do too well this season because they faced a tight series against an extremely good opponent, who just outplayed them. Just because MC is going to Code A, it doesn't mean he isn't doing extremely well. He was 2nd place at IEM, he got extremely far in this season's GSL (as with Huk). Naniwa did poorly in the GSL, but he is by far from underperforming, crushing face in MLG and the GSTL. The idea that Protoss is in a slump is a bit ridiculous. The good protoss players, are doing very well. But there aren't that many good protoss players. Look at the not-the-best Protoss players, and it's clearly a joke. Hongun and Anypro are considered top 5 Protoss, and while they have over 50% win rates, they are just horrible, horrible players. In some cases, they play like low Masters, losing to 6 pool, pooling over 1k minerals consistently on 2 bases, these guys are no where near the same league of play as MVP, Polt, Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, Leenock, TOP. The '2nd best' Zerg and Terran are just way, way better than the 2nd best Protoss. The best Zerg, Terran, and Protoss, however - Nestea, Losira, Huk, MC, MVP, Polt, are all doing extremely well, if not in the gsl (by the way, they all did well this season but may have performed bad in the up/down) but in all other tournaments as well.
Too much talking for a guy who doesn't know who SangHo is and thinks Anypro and HongUn are considered top 5 protoss.
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I'm not sure if I'm going to continue to subscribe, either. I usually just watch the protoss games unless I'm referred to a really good tvt/tvz/zvz set (usually zvt) and lately I feel like I've been going at a rate at about 1 dollar per bo3 and half of the time it's a 1/1/1 that just demolishes the guy and looks ridiculous. It kind of sucks :/
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EPT
