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Please keep the following things out of this topic:
-Caster/Stream/player bashing;
-Imbalance/race whine;
-LoL vs the world arguments;
-'Omfg cant believe people aren't watching SPL finals' comments;
-any other assorted offtopic negativism and arguments.
Enjoy this free multiday/multigame event that has been provided to you. Share your enthusiasm for the games!
Feel free to shoot me a PM or query me on IRC for any questions or comments. Have fun! ~Nyovne
[special edit: Any more derailing over the fact that someone made a Germany vs Poland WW2 joke after page 21 will be met with a week ban.] |
On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time.
It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop.
If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers.
Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain.
This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP.
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I wonder how huk feels about this. His old teammate and pretty much best friend in Korea losing to his new teammate that used some stupid all-ins
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Spicy Pepper wrote:
Everyone should spam MC and tell him to switch to terran. Byun got alot better after the switch, maybe it'll help MC too.
Yeah, just switch to the FotM-Race every month.
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Tuk wrote:
I dont understand why this series can be used to discuss balance at all.
Game 1 MC actually defended this "horribly broken 1-1-1" attack but some poor decision making (imo) meant the second push got through him.
Game 2 was just a game changing micro mistake and puma had some better positioning/upgrades (also mc could of had more gateways to resupply his army i believe)
Game 3 was stupid.
What i dont understand however is why toss players are so keen on expanding early even when the terran is doing some sort of blatant one base surely the terran will win on a build order level automatically, if the toss one based more then this wouldnt be such a problem?
1 base protoss is completely annihilated by 1-1-1, it's even worse.
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On August 22 2011 03:11 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:05 Plansix wrote:On August 22 2011 03:04 hmunkey wrote:On August 22 2011 03:02 s3183529 wrote:
Slayers_Cella and IMMVP both said 111 "imba" against Toss, and those pro Koreans sure don't know anything about SC2. Nestea and IdrA both say protoss is overpowered against zerg, but you don't give them the time of day. We could play this game forever. I need the quote where Nestea says protoss are OP. After the infestor buff, if you don't mind. IIRC he didn't explicitly say Protoss is OP, he implied it, saying something like, "If you play Terran, you can get good very quickly with a few builds. If you play Protoss, it's very hard to master but once you do master it, you'll be unbeatable". This is of course paraphrased, but that's the general gist. Anyway I don't see how bringing up MVP and Nestea's statements are too relevant because 1. The state of balance in the game always shifts. MVP and Nestea said those things a good while back. 2. Statistics do not support MVP's statement that Terran is the weakest race at the moment, nor do they support Nestea's statement that Zerg is weak against Toss at this moment. On the other hand, statistics do support that 1-1-1 is, at the very least, extremely strong against Toss.
It only shows every race likes to QQ about how their race is weak and how other races are good
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OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
MakaPrime posted "Is 1/1/1 strong? Whenever other people use it they win but whenever I use it I lose T___T"
Oh, soo true.
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:10 zYwi3c wrote:
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
"Foreign fans can't even read the games so they're acting like the Terran played well lololol. That's why Blizzard can't Patch"
koreans, such a funny ppl People taking shots at foreign fans, how classy.
That was Milkis tweeting someones reaction to the finals not his actual opinion...
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MC did less mistakes than Puma, in other words, he is better.
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On August 22 2011 03:12 hyptonic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:10 aut0mati0n wrote:
Can someone explain to me why 1-1-1 is imba in general? I'm not trying to troll here, but the only reason people are listing for 1-1-1 being so overpowered is that PuMa just beat MC in three very lackluster games (I think MC was not playing up to his normal level).
But yeah is 1-1-1 actually destroying the metagame or is this just normal TL qq after a big tournament? Look at this season's GSL. Toss has yet beat 1-1-1 more than once. Most Protoss's are already eliminated P can't stop 1-1-1.
So is it that Terran is currently OP or does Toss need a buff?
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On August 22 2011 03:11 Buff Terrans wrote:
This is the biggest whinefest in a long time.
Because there are only 3 protoss in the top 4 lol.
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On August 22 2011 03:13 Kznn wrote:
I wonder how huk feels about this. His old teammate and pretty much best friend in Korea losing to his new teammate that used some stupid all-ins
probably the same as all the Korean pros: tweeting "1-1-1 imba"
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Tuk wrote:
I dont understand why this series can be used to discuss balance at all.
Game 1 MC actually defended this "horribly broken 1-1-1" attack but some poor decision making (imo) meant the second push got through him.
Game 2 was just a game changing micro mistake and puma had some better positioning/upgrades (also mc could of had more gateways to resupply his army i believe)
Game 3 was stupid.
What i dont understand however is why toss players are so keen on expanding early even when the terran is doing some sort of blatant one base surely the terran will win on a build order level automatically, if the toss one based more then this wouldnt be such a problem?
it just seems "oh wow my fast expo build lost to a all in with workers etc must be overpowered"
Because its 1 series. Blizzard devs are not idiots they will patch this if they see players can´t figure out anything.
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On August 22 2011 03:04 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:02 s3183529 wrote:
Slayers_Cella and IMMVP both said 111 "imba" against Toss, and those pro Koreans sure don't know anything about SC2. Nestea and IdrA both say protoss is overpowered against zerg, but you don't give them the time of day. We could play this game forever.
oh my god are you freaking stupid?
MVP plays TERRAN and he claims his OWN RACE/build is imba against another race
nestea and idra both play ZERG and whines about OTHER races against them
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On August 22 2011 03:13 rpgalon wrote:
MC did less mistakes than Puma, in other words, he is better.
You are funny 
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On August 22 2011 03:04 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:02 s3183529 wrote:
Slayers_Cella and IMMVP both said 111 "imba" against Toss, and those pro Koreans sure don't know anything about SC2. Nestea and IdrA both say protoss is overpowered against zerg, but you don't give them the time of day. We could play this game forever.
Yea but the difference is Zerg doesnt have the statistics to back it up.
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I just watched Old Boy with Nal_rA in its entirety for the very first time right before watching the IEM Finals. Puma made me sad twice in the span of like an hour and a half.
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On August 22 2011 03:04 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:02 s3183529 wrote:
Slayers_Cella and IMMVP both said 111 "imba" against Toss, and those pro Koreans sure don't know anything about SC2. Nestea and IdrA both say protoss is overpowered against zerg, but you don't give them the time of day. We could play this game forever.
Indeed, last I heard nestea say on the subject was zerg should never lose to protoss. And erm you quoted Idra on balance :D
But I digress, all those SCV's trundling across the map is ugly. He micro'd pretty well, but definitely not liking pumas style (or lack thereof).
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:09 legaton wrote:On August 22 2011 03:06 hugman wrote:On August 22 2011 03:04 Plansix wrote:On August 22 2011 02:57 mcc wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Xanatoss wrote:
Sick Finals.
Although I am a P Player I have to admire the beauty of the 1/1/1 Build.
Streamlined to the extreme, very robust and since today we know its even repeatable ^^ Why would it not be repeatable, MC knew that it is coming even in game 1. You forget that 1-1-1 looks exactly like 2 port banshee, blue flame drops, thor-marine and every other one base terran build. They can even mix is up, go heavy tanks, heavy marines, get a raven or 2. All they need to do is scan and tweek their composition to deal with the protoss's. Expand later, get Colossus faster, cancel expo if you need to Wait, are you truly advising people to go one base colossus against 1-1-1? That's one of the worst possible builds ever. Even two base fast colossus sucks. No clearly one base colossi is the answer. I mean, they don't out range the tanks, cost more than the banshees, can't shoot air and cut into your stalker count. And there is no way that the terran will scan, see the support bay and get another banshee or 2 to seal the deal.
colossi are expensive in the early game. I agree man. Mass Stalkers seems to be the only more efficient unit out there for Protoss. at this point against agressive terrans like Puma.
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On August 22 2011 03:13 DNA61289 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:12 Serpico wrote:On August 22 2011 03:10 zYwi3c wrote:
OrangeMilkis Wooju Lee
"Foreign fans can't even read the games so they're acting like the Terran played well lololol. That's why Blizzard can't Patch"
koreans, such a funny ppl People taking shots at foreign fans, how classy. That was Milkis tweeting someones reaction to the finals not his actual opinion...
That's why I didnt mention Milkis....I understood the quotes and know he translates.
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On August 22 2011 03:12 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 03:03 kheldorin wrote:On August 22 2011 02:58 Evangelist wrote:On August 22 2011 02:52 koolaid1990 wrote:On August 22 2011 02:50 MrDudeMan wrote:On August 22 2011 02:41 Catchafire2000 wrote:
Not to be a douche, but your pointing out mistakes from a TWO time GSL winner? I'm sure MC knows what he's doing and has the control. Let's not take anything away from Puma here, he's just really good. And MC is really good as well. A lot of the people in this thread are commenting as if MC played perfectly and still lost. They are quick to forget about things like bad engagements, playing an econ style when you know your opponent is going to all in, losing a warp prism full of hts, getting a whole squad of ht's emp'd, separating a huge group of stalkers from the rest of your army. Ironically, whenever someone all-ins idra in a game, its usually people going on and on about how idra shouldn't drone/engage at that time. The thing is, he played much better than puma. At one point he was 170 to 130 supply. He stopped 3 drops like nothing. He took down 2 barracks losing little units He took down a command center turning into orbital. He was 2-2 vs 3-2 at the end. MC played better, its simply because amulet got taken away, if you mismicro even once, your fucked. MC mismicroed his prism, costing him the game, which is absolutely ridiculous cuz he was so far ahead. Look, he got 2-2 within the last minute or so of the game. For the important engagement he was behind on upgrades. Puma stopped upgrading because +1 armour against a protoss with half your supply is pointless. Puma killed his expo, Puma had marvellous reactions to storms (sitting for no more than 40% of a duration except when he knew he was talking out HTs) and he sniped MC's warp prism mid combat. He also engaged at fantastic angles, coming through on both sides of the watch tower, and he also had like 12 medivacs which MC did absolutely nothing abpout. MC got outplayed in game 2. Has nothing to do with balance. Take the same armies, the same ghosts, equalize the upgrades (not hard to do, MC learned this lesson against Thorzain) and shove them at any choke and I'll show you a dead terran bioball. 1/1/1 is clearly a different matter, but I hate all ins anyway. No, it wasn't. Last minute of the game was 3-3 upgrades. It's really not hard to move away from storms anyway. Compared to most high-level PvT, Puma let MC get away with wayyy too many feedbacks and storms. He didn't utilize snipe. Didn't utilize cloak. Missed several EMPs. Puma just simplied hotkeyed all his ghosts into 1 group. Failed in his drops. Didn't do any much harassing damage throughout the game while MC managed to blink into his base and control 2 sets of army at the same time. It's marvellous to think that I can watch a game and then someone can watch the same game and see something completely fictional. Game 2, MC had Puma on the ropes, pulled macro, macroed up, but didn't upgrade fast enough. Lost first engagement after that. Puma missed one or two EMPs, and then he got one off that hit his ENTIRE HT FORCE (which, btw, where all clumped together) as well as sniping the obvious Warp Prism HT drop. If someone killed my entire ghost force with a colossus I'd expect to lose the engagement. MC made a big mistake. It wasn't a small mistake. It was a big one. He let his HTs get caught by EMP before getting storms off. He engaged into a maurader heavy bioball with zealots up a ramp and then tried to charge the other side with stalkers. Neither was playing perfectly. Puma lost a drop or two. The engagement was bad for MC, and I knew the moment it was announced he was putting forges up as Puma was hitting 2-2 that it was going to end that way, just like it did with Thorzain. This balance whine deserves to be thrown at 1/1/1 but I don't know how the hell you expect terrans to deal with infestor play or even HTs if you gut EMP.
You clearly weren't watching closely. Puma wasted 2 EMPs on a single observer, then missed like 2 or 3 more, whilst only hitting 2 templar, in the rest of situations, MC managed to pull off BOTH a feedback AND a storm before EMP landed over templars. It WAS a huge mistake with the WP though .
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EPT
